Author Topic: Point of Impact change with barrel changes??????? (Read 1795 times)

hankster76 · « **on:** November 01, 2008, 05:42:20 AM »

I was sighting in a few encore barrels yesterday. First was my 6.5 x 55 rifle barrel. I had it shooting exactly 2" high @ 100 yards with 3/8" groups. I then changed the barrel to the 45-70 barrel sighted it in. Then changed the entire set up to the 30-06 pistol configuration. After getting that where I needed it I went back to the 6.5 x 55 rifle config to found it printing my same 3/8" groups 4" high and 2" right. Is it common for point of impacts to change when barrels are taken off and put back on?

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JTD305 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 01, 2008, 06:29:55 AM »

I shot my Prohunter 270 and then switched to my muzzleloader barrel without any changes. Is your hinge pins starting to wear?

12ptdroptine · « **Reply #2 on:** November 01, 2008, 06:37:12 AM »

I had that problem a couple years back when changing from my mzl barrel to my .223 barrel. I believe the amount of torque you poe on the screw change's POI....I went to the T/C barrel lug system they came out with..However the T/C tech's told me it wasnt needed... it sure helped me. There are other's who have other ways of doing this.. I intend to buy a torque wrench that measure's in inch pounds also..And yes the lug system on the barrel did help quite a bit. Drop

JustaShooter · « **Reply #3 on:** November 01, 2008, 04:34:58 PM »

On my brand-new Pro Hunter 243, the poi changes when removing and reinstalling the barrel but I only get vertical changes, not horizontal movement (or at least not enough that I noticed). In my case I don't think it is hinge pi wear, but more likely varying the torque on the foreend screws.

Drop, I haven't seen or heard anything about the lug system you are talking about, do you have a link? If it helps me with consistency I'm interested for sure.

Just a Shooter

12ptdroptine · « **Reply #4 on:** November 02, 2008, 03:43:36 PM »

Its a T/C product...I got it from cabelas..There are lug's that mount on each barrel..then the fore end has a cam locking system that you turn with a coin and it grab's the lug and tightens up... I will try and see if I can find some buried around here and get a part number.Drop

JustaShooter · « **Reply #5 on:** November 03, 2008, 12:18:43 PM »

OK, I think I gotcha - you are talking about the quick-release forend system. It takes special forends, you can't add it to an existing forend, right?

Just a shooter

12ptdroptine · « **Reply #6 on:** November 03, 2008, 03:46:17 PM »

exactly....It mounts to a couple lugs that attach to the barrel with a cam lock system. It helped my problem.

1Redfish · « **Reply #7 on:** November 09, 2008, 03:15:33 PM »

12ptdroptine, I have the same problem switching my 270 and black powder barrels. Did you by the probuct in a local Cabela's or order from their catalog?

12ptdroptine · « **Reply #8 on:** November 11, 2008, 02:49:56 PM »

I got it from the Cabelas in Prairie Duchein Wis. It did help... I bought an extra set of the lug's..incase they were one of those thing's that faded away. When I first encountered this problem, I called T/C...they said there was no need for these.. But then I wonder..Why did they make them?...I bought another frame this weekend..Because I didnt want to leave my mzl loader at home..But then I didnt want to leave my slug gun home either... These are getting addictive.. I am planning on buying 1 more then.....maybe ..Oh what the heck..Who know's..lol. The one thing I have found out..Encore..The gun for all season's..But they still have to be rechecked when you swap out the barrel's..Just to be sure. Drop

1Redfish · « **Reply #9 on:** November 13, 2008, 07:15:28 AM »

Thanks 12PTDroptine. I found the forearm lug system I read a review on Cabelas site that was not too promising. Appears the reviewer stripped out the plastic screw. I have a lament stock and did not want to change out the forearm completely. It would look kinda funky. I have found some longer forearm screws on-line that I purchased and I'll use two 1/16 inch washers to free float the barrel. That should fix my problem. At least I hope so.

wallypedal · « **Reply #10 on:** November 17, 2008, 05:28:09 PM »

Hankster,
I swap three barrels around, without much poi change at all. I might just be lucky, but here's what I've done:
Muzzleloader w/synthetic forend I glued a couple of nylon washers to the base of the studs on the forearm. I sanded out the forearm and the 'ears' so that there was no contact. I have to be careful that the forearm is 'centered' when I tighten the screws down, and I always tighten them in the same order.
25-06 Prohunter w/synthetic forearm - I made my own pillars from aluminum because it didn't seem like the metal squeezing plastic was holding torque. Sanded for clearance just like the muzzleloader. Also careful to center and torque in the same order.
.223 Bergara 26" heavyweight-- the Prohunter synthetic is a push-snug almost snap-on fit on the barrel, and I sanded the ears for clearance. This is a different forend than the one I use on the 25-06.
Torque in identical order, too.
The last thing is my hinge pin has printing on it on one end (!), I always grease it and the holes up, then orient the printing to the same side and turned the same way.When I drive the pin in, I always take it past where it should be just a bit, and then center it driving it back.
So I might be lucky, but I think doing everything consistently helps, too.
I gotta go back and read, not sure if you said your stocks were wood or synthetic.
Wallypedal

hankster76 · « **Reply #11 on:** November 18, 2008, 05:18:29 AM »

Wally,

I have done all of those same things except for marking my hinge pin. That is a great I idea I will doing that tonight. Thanks for the insight.

Hank08 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 18, 2008, 07:35:11 AM »

I only have Contenders, no Encores, but I've been shooting Contenders since they had octogon barrels and pull off forends and barrels we're $30. I now have 5 frames and 25 barrels and once my barrels are sighted in I've never noticed any change even when switching from frame to frame. Both sights or scope are on the barrel.
There shouldn't be a change. If anything were changing it would also change shot to shot and you wouldn't ever get good groups. As someone else said the forend should be returned to the same pressure against the barrel.
H08

Keith L · « **Reply #13 on:** November 18, 2008, 08:59:25 AM »

I thought that this problem with Encores was shooter error, but I have heard about it enough to wonder if there are enough differences between Contenders and Encores to have this kind of trouble. May just be the larger barrels and the harmonics exibited with them. I don't know. I don't see it on my Contenders, but lots of folks do with their Encores.

1Redfish · « **Reply #14 on:** November 19, 2008, 01:46:09 AM »

Good info from all. I have laminated wood forearms for my ML/rifle barrels. I found that 1/16inch washers fixed the problem w/the ML. I tried that on the rifle barrel and it did not work. The screws were not long enough to allow a free float. I have purchased some longer forearm screws and a gunsmith friend is making some pillars for me and I think that will fix the problem. My pin is tight with no movement when the barrel is locked up and the scope base/scope is mounted correctly. Should get some range time in the next week to see the results.

frankkj · « **Reply #15 on:** November 19, 2008, 02:48:36 AM »

I would love to find a selection of longer screws for the Encore. Where is everyone getting them?
Thanks,
Frank

Incidentally, pillar bedding my forends greatly reduced group size with most of my barrels.

hankster76 · « **Reply #16 on:** November 19, 2008, 02:51:03 AM »

Ebay and brownells both have longer forend screws.

1Redfish · « **Reply #17 on:** November 19, 2008, 03:07:10 PM »

Bought mine off EBay. Less than $6.00 for three screws including shipping.

Hank08 · « **Reply #18 on:** November 20, 2008, 06:48:19 AM »

Contender forend screws are standard screws that you can find at any hardware store, I believe Encores are standard also.
H08

JustaShooter · « **Reply #19 on:** November 20, 2008, 02:10:28 PM »

Alas, Encore forend screws are not a standard size (at least not at any hardware store near me). Encore forend screws are #8-40, and Contenders are #10-32 I think.

Just a Shooter

Bullseye · « **Reply #20 on:** November 20, 2008, 03:29:42 PM »

I did not seem to have much of a problem with this when I had Encores, but if it does exist this is what I think. The Contender has the pieces that fit in the dovetail on the barrel and the forend tightens against them and not the barrel. The Encore forend screws directly to the barrel and the forend is pulled up against the barrel. If this is the cause I suppose the washer trick between the barrel and forearm would cure the problem. Nothing against the Encore, but only Contenders for me from now on.

alsaqr · « **Reply #21 on:** November 21, 2008, 02:32:50 AM »

Currently have two Encore frames: That will soon be reduced to one. Used to have 7 barrels with scopes. It was the biggest pain in the butt to check the zero every time barrels were swapped. Currently have 3 barrels; .22 Hornet, .50 M/L and 35 Whelen Improved: These were the only ones that did not have a lot of side play. Went through the special stronger springs and .001 oversize pins and the whole drill. Decided that it was not worth the trouble.

With the CNC machines available today I cannot understand why TC cannot make the barrel fit the frame at least as well as my 60 year old Winchester model 37 shotgun. There is no side play in that old Winchester barrel at all.