Aiming Question: Dropping Deer In It's Tracks

[Snareman]

Where to aim to drop a Deer In It's Tracks?

[TXSPIKE]

I aim just slightly above the middle of the body just behind the shoulder.I find if I aim lower,they will always run.My theory on this is,when the bullet strikes,the shock is not just around the wound channel,but also up.When the bullet strikes low behind the shoulder,the lungs absorb much the upward shock due to their ability to expand and stretch.I find when I hit an inch or two above the mid point of the body,I hit the top of the lungs and much of the upward shock hits the underside of the spine and it's the shock to the spine that gives you the DEAD RIGHT THERE shots.

[buck460XVR]

The idea of "high shoulder" shots is to break the shoulders of the deer to incapacitate the deer till it dies from the corresponding damage done to the lungs. The deer don't die any faster than boiler room shot deer, they just generally don't go anywhere till they do. Most boiler room shot deer leave a big enough blood trail or drop within sight also to make retrieval simple. Both shots work(IMHO) equally well, with the one drawback to high shoulder shots being that sometime you will get "shock trama" on the upper ends of the backstraps.

[blackbear]

Low behind the front leg. Heart and probably lungs too. Should drop dead in 50 yards or so. Little or no meat wasted.

[squirrellluck]

i try to clip the back edge of the onside shoulder going in drops in its tracks 95% of the time never had 1 travel over 25-30 yards  im partially colorblind so it makes tracking easy when they dont go anywhere

[rickt300]

If I want a deer to drop in place I often shoot them so the bullet just clips the bottm edge of the shoulder blade behind the shoulder. I think I get some spine effect when doing this and fast expanders like Ballistic Tips often don't damage a lot of meat either. I also shoot deer in the neck just in front of the shoulder blade a little lower than center of it(the shouloder blade). Another place Ballistic Tips work really well.

[Glanceblamm]

I don't really know if it is the (aiming point) as much as it is the ability to shock the Central Nervous System (CNS) via hydrostatic shock induced through high velocity whether it be a short range shot or just a high Velocity caliber. I had a much higher ratio of deer that went down in their tracks using a patched ball out of the .50 (over 1,850fps) than my fellow hunters did using the standard 12ga slugs. All comparisons were shots under 50yds with shot placement being high behind the shoulder, low behind the leg, or even frontal.

My last four deer were taken with handguns and with the good shot placement (like I had seen with my .50) all of the deer ran anywhere from 29yds to 50yds.
I am not really interested in knocking the deer down in it's tracks and will go with the (boiler room) shots verse say a neck shot just because the former is a higher precentage shot.

[charles p]

I prefer a shot that is high on the shoulder and a little forward of a line drawn upward from the front leg.  I want to hit the front of the shoulder blades and the bottom of the lower loin (disrupt the spine, shoulder and lung).  This always results in a drop dead dear and very little meat is lost.  I hate it when all my meat runs away.

Last year I lined up two doe deer for a double head shot with an original Barnes copper bullet from my 7mm-08.  Worked like a charm.  They fell in the shadows.

[Terry1]

I know guys that always aim on the shoulder blade itself to drop them in their tracks. I prefer behind the shoulder though, mainly because I don't want to chance losing any meat. Following a short blood trail is no big deal to me. To each their own.

[rimfire]

I shoot directly above the front leg half way up the body.  Looking at my records well over 90% shot within 4" of this aiming point are DRT.  A hunting buddy of mine shoots the same place up and down 5" farther back and his ALWAYS run 50-75 yards.  Both of us are fine with our results so we continue to shoot differently.  I HATE TRACKING with a gun.  With a bow...fine...gun...I want them down now.

[yooper77]

Last year I lined up two doe deer for a double head shot with an original Barnes copper bullet from my 7mm-08.

charles p,

You used the old first X-bullet for the double head shot, I am guessing no expansion.  My buddy shot a Antelope with a 100 grain X-bullet out of a 25-06 Remington frontal shot and the bullet failed to expand and exited the rear ham leaving a very tiny hole.  After seeing the failure to expand I would never trust a Barnes copper bullet, so I use the Nosler Partion with excellent results and lots cheaper priced.  Plus Nosler make the new E-tip if I ever need a copper bullet, but I have no reason to go or ever be in California.

I shoot deer in the lungs/heart, I try to leave the shoulders and front quarters alone to save all the meat.  If the animal is very close I neck shoot them and they always dead on the spot.

I HATE TRACKING with a gun.  With a bow...fine...gun...I want them down now.

Whats the deal with tracking with gun vs a bow.

I don't mind tracking, its all part of hunting and never lost a double lung or neck shot deer to date.

yooper77

[rimfire]

"Whats the deal with tracking with gun vs a bow.

I don't mind tracking, its all part of hunting and never lost a double lung or neck shot deer to date."

To be honest...not a huge deal when I have to track...just a personal preference.  I know where to shoot to drop them so why not do it.  If they run I question whether I hit where I aimed and that does not feel good even for the few seconds they run!  I guess I am just odd.

I did have bullet failure on a few deer in my younger days.  Perfect shot deer that ran forever with no blood trail and took forever to locate.  One with a 270 I still cannot believe.  If I shoot farther forward...even if the bullet fails to expand I am more likely to hit a rib...they are thicker up there.  I find a busted rib tranfers some shock to the CNS...I am guessing here...and seems to get them down quicker.

To each his own.  To be honest...the more I bowhunt the more I have to think in terms of two aiming points.  I got a nice buck over the weekend with a bow and shooting behind the leg stills feel a little off to me since I have taken so many more with a gun.

[yooper77]

Congratulations on the buck.

Well, the thing is everyone can talk about what they will do during hunting, but in reality things change under true hunting situations.

With bow hunting I also shoot for a double lung, seams to be the best spot to shoot an animal, or the favorite quartering away shot if its offerred.

yooper77

[rimfire]

Agree on the quartering away shot...amazing how much more margin for error I have experienced with a bow.  Every deer I have personally shot at quartering away has died quickly.  Even a few bad shots took an arrow in the ham...cut the femoral...and did not suffer.  While I was mad at my miscue...the results were okay.

Sorry to hijack thread.

[Land_Owner]

I shoot for the neck or ear on all does I kill.  Bucks depend on rack and whether they are wall hangers or simply food. 

Deer do not take shots well in the neck.

Aim small miss small.

[tangob5]

I prefer broadside behind the front leg taking out the lungs.  Also neck shots work really well.  Prefer not to take shoulder shots as they tend to mess up the meat and head on you end up with a mess inside the body cavity.  The last deer was 11-1-08 and was a through and through both lungs with a .243.  Broke one rib going in and 2 going out.  Dropped in its tracks. 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/32173495@N03/3009677244/

[Snareman]

x

[Mike Bare]

I agree with Landowner.....a well placed neck or head shot results in bang-flops every time.......if it is something I'm going to mount, a front shoulder shot is preferred...

[JBlk]

Next time you process your deer look at how the backbone dips behind the front shoulder.Shoot for that area and he will drop so quick that you will wonder if you missed.I have killed several black powder deer with this method and have also used slugs at a twenty five to thirty yard range.Most of my deer are taken with the round ball and I have been amazed at how effective it has been when using soft lead.

[mechanic]

I've never shot a deer in the neck that didn't fall down.  The trauma to the spine will do it every time.  On a running deer I shoot just below the shoulder.  Most times this will do it, but not always.  I hunt a small caliber most times, and a shoulder shot will not always exit, nor will it always do the job quickly.  If I'm hunting with my muzzle loader or 45-70, I shoot the shoulder high.  Breaks the shoulder and usually causes spine trauma.  Yes it wastes meat, but not as much as a deer that gets away.  The only deer I've ever had to track very far I shot with a 30-30.  I found him over 1000 yds away in a creek, and had to shoot him again.  The bullet hit the shoulder bone, and angled down.  Had it not clipped an artery, I would have never found that deer.  So bullet size is relative.  I hunt now with a 243, and would not try a shoulder shot with it.

Ben

[kevthebassman]

Lung shot, every time.  About 80% of them fall in their tracks, the rest don't get far.

[ihookem]

When I shoot a deer in the front shoulder I can teaste more blood in the meat. It has a little bit of liver taste. When I shot the lungs or heard it runs  75 yds or so but never gets away. My 10 yr old boy likes to track blood trails and I think he learns something then. You may notice the same with the slight blood taste. I mix my deer all together and can tell which piece of meat is what deer.

[SHOOTALL]

head or neck if a good shot. From above ( tree stand )spine between shoulders or head . and odd angle try to aim so bullet will pass thru. heart . This is with a rifle on still deer . with a shot gun front shoulder if possible , hits depend on buck shot ( they have a mind of their own ) . deer running with dogs grabing at their butt shoot for front of deer with either rifle , shot gun or what ever .
Deer with big rack , jerk trigger when sights are on deer , keep shooting until deer stops or ammo is expended !

[charles p]

Someone asked me about the old Barnes X-bullets.  I bought some in 7MM when they first came out.  I could not get them to group very well.  I still had some loaded rounds about 8 years later and decided to try them one day.  It appears that they expanded very well but it is a little harder to judge from a double head shot.  A FMJ would have worked also.

The few original X-bullets I have will probably be discarded.  I have heard that load data for the new Barnes hunting bullets is very different.  Haven't taken an animal with them yet.

I'm not hard to suit.  I like the old cup and core bullets just as well, and they seen to shoot better also.

[Land_Owner]

Charles...if you have any appreciable quantity of Barnes X-Bullets (>20), then let the boys know on the GBO Reloading Board.  Someone is always looking for (cheaper) bullets and yours would be better served through a barrel and down range than in the garbage can.

LOL Shootall.  Just don't hit the dog with the shotgun and when the ammo is gone, throw the gun!   

[Snareman]

x

[kevthebassman]

Lung shot, every time.  About 80% of them fall in their tracks, the rest don't get far.

Can't say how far OPPOSITE my experiences are with N. MN whitetail deer!

I've shot many deer in the lungs, broadside and NEVER dropped a deer in it's tracks.  That's a fact.

Broad general statements like that confuse people.  The reply should have been backed with data to reveal "why" those 80% of deer dropped in their tracks.... and 0% of mine did NOT.  LOL!

I bet it has to do with 3 things:

1.)  Just how high in the lungs. (I'm thinking higher to shock the spine)

2.)  Faster ammo has more energy to transfer once the bullet hits.

3.)  Type of bullet.  Bullets that expand better will transfer more shock energy.

The deer I shot in the lungs were mostly shot with 30-30 and .243.  Fact is, 100% of them did die after a brief run, but 0% of them dropped in their tracks.  Most all of them shot in the middle behind the shoulder or just slightly lower.  Nothing high near the back/spine area.

When giving statistics, it helps to offer up some detail to explain the situation, which helps the reader determine the "why" of something.

Personally I do take other shots besides just double lung that are effective, but are deemed by some to be an unethical shot.  That really should be determined by the shooter.  Especially if that shooter knows their ability and stays within those parameters.

Snareman

I was simply relaying my experiences.  No need to jump down my throat like a drill instructor during hell-week.

In the past few years, I've shot deer with a 30-06, a .35 Rem, and a .50 caliber muzzleloader. 

The '06 hits them like Thor's Hammer.  Shots through the center of the lungs make deer dead before they hit the ground.  This is shooting Federal ammunition loaded with Nosler ballistic tips.  All shots have been inside of 50 yards, so the Nosler is no doubt going along at a rapid clip.  Damage to the vitals is impressive, and exit wounds are usually quite small considering the mayhem that the bullet does inside the deer.

The .35 Rem claimed it's first deer back in October, a big fat doe who had her lungs utterly pulverized from 100 yards away and ran 30 yards before hitting the dirt.

The .50 cal muzzleloader was shot with 370 grain maxiballs, and the maxi's are the ones that caused spinal trauma.  I don't use them anymore because I noticed that they do screwy things inside deer.  The shot that comes to mind was angled slightly down and centered on the body just behind the leg, but the big conical somehow managed to arc up through the body cavity and come close to the spine, while still managing to take out the lungs.  I can't figure that one out.

One thing that I think has a lot to do with the fact that I drop quite a few deer is that I shoot deer that are completely relaxed and at ease.  I've never taken a shot on a spooked or running deer.  I think that their mindset at the time of the shot can mean the difference between expiring instantly because of shock or loss of blood pressure, or running 150 yards on adrenalin with the top of their heart blown off and their lungs splattered in the grass behind them.

[backstrap]

I have shot many deer in the heart and lungs with a 30-06 and have had NONE of them drop in ther tracks. Dont get me wrong they didnt go fare after the shot 20 to 40 yards is all, but no bang flops with a blown out heart or no lungs, the only bang flop i have ever had was 1 and the buck was faceing me head on at about 40 to 50 yards and shot him in the neck and lights out it was a bang but no flop he didnt kick or any that stuff u know a deer does after bing shot so i would like to see a deer bang flop with the behind the leg shot, but i have never done it and thats the only shot i take. all the deer i have shot didnt know i was there and they where very calme. so i am yet to see a bang flop on a heart and long shot

[Land_Owner]

backstrap...shoot them just a little higher, at or near the spine, behind the shoulder and they will never take another step.  They fold like a limp rag.  Except for just a little more loss of backstrap meat, this location for your bullet will give you the result you seek.

[whiskey101]

I shoot behind the shoulder, low for the heart. I have had 1 doe fall DRT. The rest have run some distance, between 10 and 100 yards.

I do not like the high shot. Just this year, my 10 year old made an up hill shot on a big doe and hit her high, just behind the shoulder. She was above the lungs and below the spine. The deer ran hard. We waited a long time and tracked a next to nothing blood trail. We tracked over 300 yards through the woods and the doe never bedded. We saw her crossing a field 300 yards out and never found her in the woods on the far side of the field. This was a through and through shot. I don't know for sure what happened, but I saw the shot hit and the pieces of what I call "lites" at the place the doe was standing when she shot.

I will stick with the heart shot and just track them. The only exception I have to this is a close deer in the late evening. I will take a neck shot if I feel good about it.