Paying higher taxes.

[Redhawk1]

I get sick of hearing the Obama campaign telling us, it is selfish or not patriotic if we do not want to pay higher taxes.

What would you think or say to those that don't pay a dime in taxes??

[jjas]

If a person works and makes $40,000 per year, has two kids, but their wife doesn't work outside the home, this family wouldn't pay any federal income taxes. 

The median individual income in this country around 35K, the median family income is 50K and the median price of a home is 250K.  Do the math and try to live off the median income in this country and purchase a median priced home.  It won't happen. 

Point being, this family does pay taxes.  They pay local taxes, state taxes, social security taxes, sales taxes, taxes on their monthly utility bills, property taxes, taxes to license their vehicle(s), and on and on. 

Jim

[billy_56081]

Anyone who makes 50K a year and buys a 250k house is living beyond thier means. They are the targets for Obama's reditribution of wealth. People who want to live beyond thier means are dragging this country down into socialism.

[crustaceous]

We're in the midst of a war and are basically putting the costs on our credit card. How do you think we're going to pay that off? Higher taxes are inevitable, but then again we can pass it on to our kids.

[Redhawk1]

If a person works and makes $40,000 per year, has two kids, but their wife doesn't work outside the home, this family wouldn't pay any federal income taxes. 

The median individual income in this country around 35K, the median family income is 50K and the median price of a home is 250K.  Do the math and try to live off the median income in this country and purchase a median priced home.  It won't happen. 

Point being, this family does pay taxes.  They pay local taxes, state taxes, social security taxes, sales taxes, taxes on their monthly utility bills, property taxes, taxes to license their vehicle(s), and on and on. 

Jim

I think you miss the point. I pay higher taxes than the average person, because I am in a higher tax bracket. I think 35% of my income is a boat load of taxes on top of all the others taxes I pay on all the stuff I buy like others do.

My wife and I worked our asses off for many years to get where we are today, we never asked for a hand out, and I damn sure don't want to give a handout to anyone that does not want to go out and earn a living and better themselves like my wife and I have.

billy_56081 hit the nail on the head, to many people living beyond their means.

The good thing about my wife and I, we are self employed, we will just not work as hard, and cut back one taking on new clients, so we won't have to give up our hard earned money to the laze people that don't want to better themselves.


And as for as being called unpatriotic, because I don't want to give up my hard earned money, that is just plain stupid. I served 10 years in the Military and my wife did 20 years, and I have a son in the Military right now as well as my son in-law. To me that is as patriotic as can be.
How many years did Obama serve in the Military.... A big fat ZERO.....

[45-70.gov]

don't   you  people  know  any thing!!!

all  they have  to  do  is  print  more  money

they  just  tax  us  to  beat  the  rich  down  so  morons  won't  be  so  envious

they  print  more  money  and  say  they  grew  the  economy....lol

[jjas]

If a person works and makes $40,000 per year, has two kids, but their wife doesn't work outside the home, this family wouldn't pay any federal income taxes. 

The median individual income in this country around 35K, the median family income is 50K and the median price of a home is 250K.  Do the math and try to live off the median income in this country and purchase a median priced home.  It won't happen. 

Point being, this family does pay taxes.  They pay local taxes, state taxes, social security taxes, sales taxes, taxes on their monthly utility bills, property taxes, taxes to license their vehicle(s), and on and on. 

Jim

I think you miss the point. I pay higher taxes than the average person, because I am in a higher tax bracket. I think 35% of my income is a boat load of taxes on top of all the others taxes I pay on all the stuff I buy like others do.

My wife and I worked our asses off for many years to get where we are today, we never asked for a hand out, and I damn sure don't want to give a handout to anyone that does not want to go out and earn a living and better themselves like my wife and I have.

billy_56081 hit the nail on the head, to many people living beyond their means.

The good thing about my wife and I, we are self employed, we will just not work as hard, and cut back one taking on new clients, so we won't have to give up our hard earned money to the laze people that don't want to better themselves.


And as for as being called unpatriotic, because I don't want to give up my hard earned money, that is just plain stupid. I served 10 years in the Military and my wife did 20 years, and I have a son in the Military right now as well as my son in-law. To me that is as patriotic as can be.
How many years did Obama serve in the Military.... A big fat ZERO.....

I'm not missing the point.  The point is simply this.  The median individual income ($20.00 per hour) in this country isn't enough to buy a modest home, much less the median priced home of $250,000. That's not enough  of a salary to purchase cars (without really creative financing), a college education for them or their kids, pay for health care or save for retirement.   

I know  many people are living beyond their means and many of them create their own difficulties, but, if 50% of Americans are making the median income (or less) and can't support themselves or a family on it, who pays the bill in the end?

You and me, that's who.  So we'll pay now or later, but we'll all pay in the end.

 



 

[Redhawk1]

jjas, it has to do with where you live also, a $250,000 house in Delaware is a big house. Now in the social republic of California a $250,000 houses is a shack. So you cannot apply your thinking to all of America.

So I take it, you are for higher taxes, and laying down like a dog, and having the Government tell you where your hard earned money is better spent, than what you can decide?
You are all for working your butt off, just to hand it over to the Government and let them trickle it down to a guy sitting at home drinking beer all day and not workings.

What needs to happen is, people need to help themselves and quit relying on Government always stepping in.
We were a country founded on hard work and good work ethic, and you will succeed.

What am I missing here?

[45-70.gov]

THE  NEW GENERATIONS  WERE TRAINED  IN  SCHOOLS RUN BY DEMOCRATS

thats  what  your missing

[Redhawk1]

THE  NEW GENERATIONS  WERE TRAINED  IN  SCHOOLS RUN BY DEMOCRATS

thats  what  your missing

You got that right...

[jjas]

jjas, it has to do with where you live also, a $250,000 house in Delaware is a big house. Now in the social republic of California a $250,000 houses is a shack. So you cannot apply your thinking to all of America.

So I take it, you are for higher taxes, and laying down like a dog, and having the Government tell you where your hard earned money is better spent, than what you can decide?
You are all for working your butt off, just to hand it over to the Government and let them trickle it down to a guy sitting at home drinking beer all day and not workings.

What needs to happen is, people need to help themselves and quit relying on Government always stepping in.
We were a country founded on hard work and good work ethic, and you will succeed.

What am I missing here?

No one is saying anything about a guy sitting at home drinking beer all day and not working, we are talking about 1/2 of the working people in this country not being able to afford the American dream.   

Are you saying that 1/2 of the people in the country don't work long enough, hard enough?  Do you really believe that 1/2 of working Americans don't have a good work ethic? 

I don't agree with that one bit.

BTW, your point about housing prices is  somewhat valid, but income is income and a median income of 40K still makes you pretty poor regardless of where you live in the United States today.  In California, you'd be a pauper, in the midwest you still wouldn't buy much in the way of a house.

[billy_56081]

jjas, it has to do with where you live also, a $250,000 house in Delaware is a big house. Now in the social republic of California a $250,000 houses is a shack. So you cannot apply your thinking to all of America.

So I take it, you are for higher taxes, and laying down like a dog, and having the Government tell you where your hard earned money is better spent, than what you can decide?
You are all for working your butt off, just to hand it over to the Government and let them trickle it down to a guy sitting at home drinking beer all day and not workings.

What needs to happen is, people need to help themselves and quit relying on Government always stepping in.
We were a country founded on hard work and good work ethic, and you will succeed.

What am I missing here?

No one is saying anything about a guy sitting at home drinking beer all day and not working, we are talking about 1/2 of the working people in this country not being able to afford the American dream.  

Are you saying that 1/2 of the people in the country don't work long enough, hard enough?  Do you really believe that 1/2 of working Americans don't have a good work ethic? 

I don't agree with that one bit.

BTW, your point about housing prices is  somewhat valid, but income is income and a median income of 40K still makes you pretty poor regardless of where you live in the United States today.  In California, you'd be a pauper, in the midwest you still wouldn't buy much in the way of a house.

So what is the American dream? How many of these people who HAVE to HAVE a 250K house, and a cell phone and cable, and eat 2 meals a day at a resturaunt, and drive a new car every 3 years. The problem is we have too many people that are too stupid to know what is a want and what is a need. Ya know I hope another depression does hit America, you ninnys who have your wants and needs confused will get a big education real fast.

I'll leave you with one simple thought I worked with a guy from Africa, he said America is a great place even the poor people are fat.

[Troyboy]

Thay have to keep taxing the shrinking middle class to pay for all the illegals. They use the country and put nothing back in the way of taxes.

No new taxes


                                                        Troy

                                       

[jjas]

jjas, it has to do with where you live also, a $250,000 house in Delaware is a big house. Now in the social republic of California a $250,000 houses is a shack. So you cannot apply your thinking to all of America.

So I take it, you are for higher taxes, and laying down like a dog, and having the Government tell you where your hard earned money is better spent, than what you can decide?
You are all for working your butt off, just to hand it over to the Government and let them trickle it down to a guy sitting at home drinking beer all day and not workings.

What needs to happen is, people need to help themselves and quit relying on Government always stepping in.
We were a country founded on hard work and good work ethic, and you will succeed.

What am I missing here?

No one is saying anything about a guy sitting at home drinking beer all day and not working, we are talking about 1/2 of the working people in this country not being able to afford the American dream.  

Are you saying that 1/2 of the people in the country don't work long enough, hard enough?  Do you really believe that 1/2 of working Americans don't have a good work ethic? 

I don't agree with that one bit.

BTW, your point about housing prices is  somewhat valid, but income is income and a median income of 40K still makes you pretty poor regardless of where you live in the United States today.  In California, you'd be a pauper, in the midwest you still wouldn't buy much in the way of a house.

So what is the American dream? How many of these people who HAVE to HAVE a 250K house, and a cell phone and cable, and eat 2 meals a day at a resturaunt, and drive a new car every 3 years. The problem is we have too many people that are too stupid to know what is a want and what is a need. Ya know I hope another depression does hit America, you ninnys who have your wants and needs confused will get a big education real fast.

I'll leave you with one simple thought I worked with a guy from Africa, he said America is a great place even the poor people are fat.

Billy,

You are going for the easy grab there.  Again, we are talking about the median income of $40K.  These people aren't the ones getting mortgages for 250K.  These aren't the people with 2 new cars in the driveway and eating out most days.  These aren't the people who trainwrecked the housing market or the economy in general.

The 700 billion dollar bailout is being used to pay bonuses to excutives @ these financial institutions and to buy other failing banks (PNC just bought National City).  It's just another example of the big guy getting a check and the little guy getting screwed.    The people who are benefiting from the biggest welfare check in the history of the world are the ones who are running the country into the ground, not the 50% of Americans struggling to make ends meet.  

Give me a break.

[Cabin4]

Only those making more than $250k will have a tax increase under Obama's plan.... I mean $200k.... oh I mean $140k... sorry I mean $120k.....

Obama voted for tax increases that would have impacted families making as little as $40k. Obama's tax plan by the way, includes small business that have a gross income of greater than $250k or whatever lower number the commy finally settles on. Anyone who thinks you can raise taxes on individuals and companies that make in excess of $250k and the middle class won't pay more for goods, services or loose their job because their employer won't be able to pay them anymore, is living in a dream world. If you raise taxes anywere, the middle class MUST pay for it, someway .. somehow.. ain't no 2 ways about it.

Get the picture?

[Redhawk1]

No one is saying anything about a guy sitting at home drinking beer all day and not working, we are talking about 1/2 of the working people in this country not being able to afford the American dream.   

Are you saying that 1/2 of the people in the country don't work long enough, hard enough?  Do you really believe that 1/2 of working Americans don't have a good work ethic? 

I don't agree with that one bit.

BTW, your point about housing prices is  somewhat valid, but income is income and a median income of 40K still makes you pretty poor regardless of where you live in the United States today.  In California, you'd be a pauper, in the midwest you still wouldn't buy much in the way of a house.

So because others don't have every thing people that make more money than them have, the people that make more money should share there money with them? I don't like that one bit.

Let's look at it this way, a person making over $200,000 dollars pays 35% of there income in taxes, we are talking $70,000 dollars. Now after deductions it is down to $50,000. So the person making over $200,000 should pay more, and have the Government give it to the people making $40,000, that pay no taxes? What a joke.

Where is the incentive for anyone to work hard? Working harder just to give your money away in more taxes, for the people  that have not figured out how to make more money.

My wife and I both work and worked while we had two kids to raise. We worked opposite shifts, so one of us would be home with the kids. If my wife and I can be more successful, by both of us working and raising 2 kids, why can't others.
We put in long hours and work very hard, and feel we should be able to keep the fruits of our labor.

I am better at figuring out where I need to spend my money and help others. It is with helping my family and friends.

[deltecs]

My grandfather told me a little story that just as true today as then.  Your house should not cost you more than 3 time your annual salary.  Your car should not cost more than 20% of your annual salary.  Your investment income should be at least 10% of your annual income.  Food and necessities should not be more than 30% of your annual salary.  So when it is added up house 33% of annual salary, car 20%, investment 10%, food 30% for a total of 93% of your total annual income.  How then can most people afford the increase in taxes to pay for a redistribution of wealth.  There just isn't the math or reality to pay for more with the economic structure and more demand by people causing increased prices.  It really doesn't matter where you live.  The facts of the matter is the US dollar still purchases the same value elsewhere than one locality. 

[crustaceous]

Your grandfather gave you sound advice. The problem we have is that neither our citizens nor our government has spent within their repective means. That being said part of the solution is going to be higher taxes.

[deltecs]

Your grandfather gave you sound advice. The problem we have is that neither our citizens nor our government has spent within their repective means. That being said part of the solution is going to be higher taxes.

Well it must be true to some extent.  My house in the bush is worth about 40,000 dollars.  My business is worth over a million.  My income before taxes exceeds 175,000 and I find it difficult to make ends meet.  Admittedly my costs are much higher than most people due the addtional transportation costs involved with bush living but the land itself is worth more than the business to the right buyer.   Try finding one when necessary.  It is much like todays housing market.  With the reduction in sales price, many are paying for a house way beyond their ability to pay and not worth as much as when they bought into it when it is paid for.  That is not my case, thankfully.  I'm almost entirely debt free with liquid assets and cash onhand.  Looks like a buyers market for me, but am concerned about the tax structure proposed by Obama.  If it goes into effect, I'm determined to just reap the income from my best 2 weeks of the year and close up shop by laying off all employees.  During those 2 weeks, the wife and I can do almost everything I hire a crew to do.  Might as well keep it ourselves and use our business deductions to keep the rest.  Too bad Uncle Sam.  I remember reading somewhere that it is the citizens duty to pay the least amount of taxes allowed by law to the government.  Might as well start next season.

[billy_56081]

And on Taxing the "RICH" answer this, how is taxing the wage payer more going to help the wage earner?

[45-70.gov]

robin the hood  for president

[bilmac]

Why even talk about what Obama promises since we all know that he is lying. Billy Clinton taught him how to do it, promise anything and forget all of it the day after the election, the press will never call you on it.

The Dems have designed this progressive tax to favor themselves. Lower wage people are paying less and less in taxes and they have the dems to thank for it, so who do they vote for. And hey, there just happens to be way more low income folks than high incomers. It's called class warfare, and the dems and dumb republicans are getting us into a position where only those who play the game can win elections.

WE NEED A FLAT TAX

[Mikey]

Redhawk1:  if you think you're sick of it now sonny boy, just wait - his tax increases are gonna make ya puke from workin' so hard just to pay your new tax bill.

After all Joe (the plumber) we gots to spread the wealth aroun (fool).  

And let's not forget folk - WE will pay for slavery, one way or the other.  Whether we caused it or did it will not matter.  We are white, we are taxpayers, and we will pay for it.  Better get your butts ready for it.

[ms]

Every time you pay those higher taxes think of bush spending money like a Dem. If McCain gets in there going up.

[Redhawk1]

bilmac, I am all for a flat tax. But we all know the Democraps won't let that happen.


Mikey, I have already told my friends, it won't be long before we see a reparation to the blacks for slavery if Obama gets elected. Watch and see.

The United States is the only country that try's to be politically correct. African American, what the heck is that.
What do you call a black man in Canada... A Canaden, what do you call a black man in France..A Frenchman. We are the only country that caters to the political BS.

Now see what you went and made me do Mikey... This country is a sinking ship.

[45-70.gov]

look  at  OBAMAs  logo   it  is  the sun  setting  on  our flag

[jimster]

The country will be a sinking ship as long as anyone think America "owes" them a house...or a job...or anything for that matter. 

My fist house I had to buy on land contract...35,000 bucks...did not have a down payment.  I paid it off, and fixed it up at the same time.  Could not spend money back then, it all went to someday owning that house and fixing it all up, while I lived in it.   Got er done....sold that house for 100,000....it was worth a lot more after I gutted it out and re did everything, inside and out..(WHILE I LIVED IN IT) 
Next house...I had my down payment...that one cost me 150,000....I put the 100,000 down I got off the first house.   
I'm now on my forth house and it's almost payed for, did all this myself,  could not eat out a lot, could not buy every gun I dream about, and I paid FED taxes the whole time...(I have no idea what the post above is talking about...I made 40,000 per year way back then and paid fed taxes like crazy)....

Now the kids are all gone....I went from making around 75 to 80 per year, back to 55K...(my choice)...
and I'm paying gobs of federal taxes......and State taxes....and a bunch of other taxes.

As long as people here in the U.S. think our country "owes" them something...we are going to go down, we will be a sinking ship.  I notice Asians come here with nothing, works twice as hard as most people, and in a few years have their citizenship and a nice business....must be they don't have that attitude of America owing them lots of stuff.  Also...I notice they raise their kids pretty strict so I guess their kids will grow up the same way they do.  Lot's of American's kids are fat and lazy...go figure...their citizenship don't mean squat I guess.

And here is a good catch 22 for you all....the "spreading of wealth"  also would hurt Obama real bad...if he followed it....I see he made millions of dollars to put him in the presidents chair....if he would have shared all that wealth...he would not have been able to achieve HIS dream....which seems to be PRESIDENT of the U.S.   Which is why he did not share that great amount of wealth with anyone else.  He needed it to "buy" the office.

My opinion...they vary....but not by much!

[SHOOTALL]

why should anyone not pay taxes ? They still get benifits !

[kiddekop]

Obie is a tax & spend lefty but I doubt he pays any taxes due to all of the sheltered income & investments.If someone would dump those perks for the high on the hog group this country would be better off.

[deltecs]

I don't see where the flat tax is beneficial to our economy or politicians.  With a flat tax, it is easy to compute the federal income so poiticians will know approximately just how much money can be spent and still say they stood for a balanced budgit.  A much more fair tax is a national sales or user tax.  If a poor person wants to get ahead, he'll spend less and be taxed less leaving more revenue in his pocket.  If one is wealthy, the trend is to spend more money on comforts and desires instead of needs. So these people will pay more in taxes as they consume more.  Politicians will never realize in times of economic crisis, just how much money will be coming into government coffers, so it will limit their pork barrel spending in order to stay within budgit.  In times of economic bull markets, the feds will have a surplus that could go to paying off the national debt.  This is the most fair tax as it also will tax illegal activities because these people spend money.  To assist in the user and sales tax program, all food and clothing is non taxable.  All heating and utilities are non taxable.  First time home buyers are non taxable.  So the poor people would not pay any taxes, except for those items of desire or wants.  The wealthy will taxed by paying for their wants according to the amounts they spend.   I totally disagree with a flat tax as the wealthy use much more of the raw materials, goods and services than the poor, yet they are taxed the same as someone who doesn't use those products.  That is unfair and unreasonable.