Mueller vs. Sightron

[josie wales]

I have just bought a NIB Browning Stainless Stalker in .223 wssm. I have looked at all the scopes,German,USA, Asia and Asia rim and old eastern block countries.I want to put good glass on the gun,my shots at the big Eastern Coyotes are under 150 yds. Right now,on my guns I have two USA made Burris,a 35 year old Unertal 25X, two 40 year old Weavers fixed power 4x,and on my current coyote gun a fixed 10x Tasco(early 70's). I checked out Mueller and really like the write ups on them and I am looking at the APV 4.5-14x40. But when the company says not for large caliber just what does this mean? Will it work on a 30-06 with a light frame (<7lbs).How about dropping it,I still do hills at 57 years old.
   My second choice is the Sightron Sightron SI Rifle Scope 3-9x 40mm it has no restrictions on it. How do the two compare side by side,which one will give me the best optics for the money? I am old enough to know that just throwing money at something will NOT give you the best value for your dollar and I want USA made that is for sure.

[Skunk]

My second choice is the Sightron SI Rifle Scope 3-9x 40mm it has no restrictions on it. How do the two compare side by side, which one will give me the best optics for the money?

Josie Wales, can't comment on the Mueller, never owned one, nor seen one in action, but I too have read pretty good reviews about them. I did however own a Sightron SI, 3 X 9, 40mm, and it was a decent scope for the money. It had real decent glass, and very decent clarity. I used it on a Ruger MKII 6.5 X 55 SE and the scope never gave me any problems. The only thing I didn't like about it was the knobs. Although they were metal and seemed durable, I could never get a good grip on them and they were very hard to turn (at least for me anyway. There was a guy shooting with me one day and was like only half my size, but it seemed he had Kung-Fu grip and could turn those knobs more easily than me). When sighting in a rifle with that scope, the knobs would make my finger tips actually bleed from the jagged little edges of the turret adjustments, the difficulty in turning, and the lack of obtainable grip (hope no one accuses me of having pussy fingers ). Compared to some of the inexpensive Burris, Bushnell, or Nikon scopes that I've owned or currently use, there is no comparison between the knobs. I've never shed any blood using any of these after-mentioned scopes. Thus, my opinion of the SI is a decent scope with crappy knobs.

[quickdtoo]

The Mueller website states the APV as Not recommended for heavy magnum rifles (i.e. .375, .458, etc.) , those examples would be 375 H&H and 458 Win magnum, If you use the search feature for Mueller APV, you'll see that it's rated for non-magnum centerfire rifles, there are many in use with no problems on 30-06 and 308W, that's why it was named the All Purpose Variable and is listed under Big Game scopes at Mueller.  It's also not rated for spring airguns, but a lot of scopes won't stand up to them. 

I have an S1 Sightron 3-9x40, IMO, for the same money, the Nikon Prostaff or the Mueller APV is a much better scope, but personally, the 4.5-14x40 APV or any scope with an AO for that matter is more than I would want on a typical big game rifle, a 3-9x is all that is needed, even a 2-7x works great. 

Tim

http://muelleroptics.com/products/MAPV451440.html

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,131492.msg1098490001.html#msg1098490001

[josie wales]

I just don't jump in to the optics market,I want value for the dollar and this is what others have told me after doing five days of my vacation looking at EBAY.
   The scopes that generate the most interest from others are NIKON,way ahead of other manufactures and also with the most scopes on EBAY. They seem to get the most bids.LEUPOLD is a close second but also at a higher price range. Sightron with only 25 scopes on EBAY seem to do well also when a deal is there. Mueller,well not much activity as well as NcStar.I am not saying one scope is better than another but real hunters are! Why has there never been a independent side by side scientific comparison of all scopes? Its a jungle out there for anyone trying to find good optics.

[Mueller Optics]

In regards to the orginal question, here is some interesting information

http://www.chuckhawks.com/mueller_3-10x44_tacII.htm

MO

[Bugflipper]

 I have never owned mueller scopes, so can't give you a comparison I can comment on the sightron. Glass is clear and bright. There is a new hunter holdover recticle that is as good as any out there. You really don't see top of the line quality until the s2 or s3. I have an s1 on a 10/22. Clarity is on par with a new model vari x 1 or old model vari x 2. Since sightron provides the glass to leupold. As for reference these two and the nikon monarch, simmons aetec, b&L 3200 and pentax game seaker are all very close in quality and clarity. Just choose the one that best suits you budget and wait for a few more mueller fans to give their oppinion because they are quite popular on this site.

[josie wales]

Sorry,Chuck Hawks and Randy Wakeman are usually found on the same page (like two peas in a pod) both have motives other than hard facts. That is a whole 'nother bag of worms! What I am looking for are independent tests comparing one scope against another at the same or near same price range. I worked in industry for many years and all our compeators products were tested against ours usually to destruction. In the optics market I am not seeing this. If your dog is better than mine don't you want to prove it? If your dog don't run I guess its up to the MBA's working for the company to try and tell us it does. I do not want to be fooled by clever marketing,glitzy packaging and slick advertising (I voted for Mcain/Palin). Whats is wrong with scientific analysis of optics that we buy? We should be demanding it,it's our money we are spending. But what do we settle for? Some one saying I looked through Brand X scope at the mall and wow it was clear or I used Brand Y and shot a deer with it . I know the three big names in optics and they got big from quality products. I also know that years ago (60's) 90% of all scopes I saw in the woods were Weaver. Products do change and change overnight. Keep an eye on Leupold the ol'man ain't there any more and is being run by MBA's. When looking at Cabelas only two scope brands give % of light transmission (Nikon and Bushnell) shouldn't they all give that? Can any one tell me just what shockproof means in a rifle scope they all say it. I will tell you this Webster would not agree with the optics industry definition. Right now I am looking more and more at a Nikon scope but Sightron is still close behind. I have uped the quality of the Sightron to S11 just because of some real good deals I saw online.

[Mueller Optics]

Sorry,Chuck Hawks and Randy Wakeman are usually found on the same page (like two peas in a pod) both have motives other than hard facts. That is a whole 'nother bag of worms! What I am looking for are independent tests comparing one scope against another at the same or near same price range.

The fact is that the 2 scopes (Mueller Tac II and Sightron) are being made in the same factory... Now, if you want a independent test, here's that.

http://www.realguns.com/archives/126.htm

MO

[josie wales]

This is a start! The article was great. It would of been better if other scopes were used and and if the test was repeatable. I wonder how the
Bushnell Elite 3200,Nikon Monarch,Pentax Lightseeker would of done. We need more of this at Greybeard. I have no problems (well some) but I know it will happen about products made in China. Again I worked in industry long enough to know some products made in China are even superior to ours.The article just scratches the surface but it is in the right direction at least.

[LaOtto222]

I have 3 of the Mueler APV scopes and can recommend them for smaller caliber guns (varmint). I have not used them on anything bigger, so I can not comment of them for that application. I find that they are a very good value for the money. I think there are better scopes out there, but you are going to pay more money for them. I also have a Bushnell 3200 Elite 10X tactical. At around $200 it is a very good scope (rugged too) and a good value. I am going to be putting one on a custom .223 intended to shoot PD out to 400 yards or so. I think the better Nikon's are good scopes too, but start getting a little pricey in my opinion.

[30-30man]

I have a Mueller ApV mounted on a Mosin Nagant using the ATI system. It was one of several I bought.  To be honest, it was about the only one I came across that was accurate enough to hunt with.  Most of them were 4-6inches @ 100. That was just not good enough for me.  This one was much better so it was kept.

The Mosin uses a 7.62 x 54r cartridge and let me tell you, it'll give your shoulder a pounding.  The 203 grainers are brutal. I haven't seen anyone yet that won't cry after shooting a box of 20 without padding.  The steel butt plate makes it horrible after 10 shots or so.  The old $69 rifle didn't need a $500 scope.  So far I've got the Mosin shooting within 2 inches@100. It has held up and maintained zero for a year.  No problems....I even emailed Mueller about the scope before I bought it.  They said they only had a few returned that were mounted on magnum rifles, so they felt like giving a warning to limit returns. There are not many scope makers out there honest enough to do that.  Heck, most of them will sell you anything and claim it to be totally shock proof. Don't let that scare you.  The APV will hold up and if it doesn't, the warranty is still good.

[josie wales]

After a very exhaustive search I purchased a Sightron SIIB3942ST. I wish I had a dollar for every mile I put on just to look through a scope. It was a much harder decision than the gun because there are very few light weight fast .224 calibers out there. Now to get rings and bases for the Browning,another hard decision and more research. I have not received the scope yet,I hope this week and by next weekend at the range. Powder selection for this round I am still unsure about.

[Tunaman]

I would strongly suggest the dednutz. You will not be let down. See the thread below this one if you have any questions.