still have .35 whelen troubles

[GURU]

well i have solved my misfire & ejector problems , now trying to get it to shoot decent groups. ive tried 225 accubonds, 200 remington core-lokts & 200 barnes tsx all with reloader 15 . factory ammo will not fire all the time so i have to use neck sized fireformed brass. at 200 yards  ill get 2 or 3 rounds in a 2-3 inch group then ill get fliers anywhere from 6 to 8 inches in every direction. i shoot a few of my other rifles from the same bench & rest at the same yardage with great groups. with the 1-16 twist rifling should a lighter bullet shoot better or should i try a heavy bullet next.

[Ten Ring]

Please tell how you solved the missfires.
Ten Ring

[GURU]

 i really didnt fix anything , all i did was take all the once fired brass that i had and only neck size it and now it fires every time. the factory ammo was not flush with the barrel and the once fired  is flush. i also replaced the ejector , lift button and spring and that fixed my ejector problem. i just cant figure out why it shoots  all over the place .

[quickdtoo]

Read the Handi Basics sticky, have you tried it without the forend? Forend fit is the number one cause of 3rd and subsequent flyers as the barrel heats up. For a big game rifle, IMO the first round is the one that counts, the second on target making a group instills confidence knowing it will consistently put them where you want them. I don't worry about the 3rd shot as much, without forend work it's usually away from the first two, but still acceptable for any big game hunting, if not, the forend needs attention, there's a ton of info on that subject in the FAQs, just be sure to only make one change at time.
 
I've not shot my RMEF at 200yds, but it shoots <1" 3-shot 100yd groups with 250gr Speer spitzers, and 1½" with a max load of RL15 under the 225gr TSX. 
Barnes data was tested in a 1:16" twist barrel, so I'd expect it to work in the RMEF too.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/images/35WhelenWeb.pdf


Matt Parliament is shooting the 225gr TSX in his 22" Handi with the same RL15 load, it worked for him at 275yds.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,130183.msg1098479482.html#msg1098479482

His load is higher than what Barnes lists now, that was before their #4 manual was released, their instructions then was use the #3 data plus 1½-2gr over max worked up in ½gr increments, I got my best accuracy at 61½gr and think I could improve it by changing the seating depth, that was at the recommended .050" off the lands. Fred M has always loaded his TSXs into the lands and achieved great accuracy, but that requires working the load from the start at that seating depth. I've loaded the TSX in two other chamberings, the 280Imp and 308W, they shot best with near max loads, that's Fred's experience too in his 257Bob Ultra and 25-06 Handi. I dunno if I'd load into the lands, but a bit closer than .050" sure seems the way to go to me. 

Hope this helps,


Tim

[GURU]

i tried it without the forend & with the o-ring trick and i didnt see any change. i tried seating the bullet out a little farther. it must have a  very long throat because the bullet will fall out the case before it touches. i thought it was the light bullets not being very long but i also tried the accubonds which are long with no contact . im only using 54- 56grains of reloader 15 with each of the diff. bullets with velocity averaging about 2625 - 2700 fps. no signs of pressure. should i load them a little hotter .am i just expecting to much from this thing or should it shoot better than 8" groups at 200yards

[quickdtoo]

Sticking with 3-shot groups for a break-barrel is the best choice I think, it's what I use for my Encore and Optima Elite as well as my BLR. My load work is done from start loads, 3 rounds each increasing in ½gr increments, allowing the barrel to cool between each 3 shot group. I've had many, many range trips where that ½gr difference made all the difference in the world, it could go from a 3" group to a ½" group with just the ½gr change, so if you're loading in 1gr increments, you could easliy miss the sweet spot.

I wouldn't hesitate to load warmer than 56gr, their max in the #4 manual is 57.5gr @3.330" COL for the 200gr TSX, if you're loading longer, you can easily increase above their max, in ½gr increments, a sticky barrel release will likely be your first sign that you're approaching a little too much pressure, on an ejector barrel it's usually sticking brass, flattening of primers being the usual suspect too.

Tim

[Smokin Joe]

Slightly off topic............

wisconsin cartridge http://www.wisconsincartridge.com

Has .35 Whelen ammo available in their "Odd-Lots" section

200 gn SP    $22.00 box

[GURU]

 i was moving up 1 grain at a time . i'll try 1/2 grain increments . has anybody tried any 180 grain bullets like the single shot pistol bullets. the only thing i havent tried is a different scope. i have a 3-9x43  pentax lightseeker in burris zee rings on there now that has been on several of my guns with perfect performance. but i guess it wouldnt hurt to try another scope just to be sure.i really need to make this gun shoot at 200 yards since thats about an average shot where i hunt. a competion shooter at range told me that i needed to find a powder charge that would completely fill the case without to much pressure to help with accuracy. is that true?

[quickdtoo]

If you're getting consistent 2-3 shot groups, then it goes south, it's not likely the scope. I'd work with the forend pressure, when you shot it without the forend, did you place the front rest under the frame against the trigger guard?  I'd try the refrigerator magnet(FAQs) before I did any real work on it, also make sure the forend isn't too tight, just snug enough to hold it on without the screw, if it's hard to pull off, it's too tight.

The 180gr SSP is pretty light for the 35 Whelen unless you load it down, it's meant for 357max/35 Remington velocities for use on deer. That said, Hornady lists it in their 6th, up to 2600fps with 59.1gr RL15, up to 2750fps with H4895 or AA2520, with a COL of 3.050".

RL15 looks like a good powder to work with for 225gr bullets with a 98% burn in the 26" barrel with 105% load density,  I don't have a 200gr TSX, or I'd run it through QuickLoad to see how it does on paper in comparison.

Tim

The 180 grain Hornady Single Shot Pistol Bullet

Apparently this bullet is a good seller at Hornady, as they produce around a half million per year.  There are a lot of lower velocity 35’s and pistol length barrels that require an easy opening bullet for reduced velocities.  The SSP 180 meets that need.  My questions were few; how would it hold up at close range and what were the expansion characteristics at longer ranges?  To answer this question, I fired it at 2380 fps into the books, range twenty feet, and also at 2300 fps out of my Bullberry barreled Contender pistol in .35 Remington at the 100 and 200 yard books.

At close range, velocity 2380 feet, (call me Elmer Keith) the bullets expanded to wide diameter and penetrated around 8 inches, less than any other bullet save the 125 pistol bullets discussed later.  Bullets held together, no doubt due to the Interlock feature, but the lead remaining in the jackets looked almost melted.  They also blew the crap out of the phone books.  Two shots, one in the top half and the other in the bottom, were all the first few books could take.  These look adequate for most lung shots on deer but I’d hesitate to use them against tough resistance at close range at these velocities.  At 100 and 200 yards it was apparent that the scoring in the nose of the bullet was not shallow, but deep, as the nose of the bullet peeled back into clearly defined segments.  The bullet expanded to wide diameter at 200 yards and showed around 11 inches of penetration.  This appears to be a deer bullet, and if any doubt about the expansion qualities of the .35 Remington at long range are present this bullet should answer all questions.  There are more suitable cartridges than the .35 Remington for the longer ranges, but if this bullet is placed properly in the chest it looks to be able to cause sufficient damage way out there.  A 2300+ fps launch velocity should be sufficient to at least 200 yards as regards trajectory, and these bullets can be used in tubular magazines if the soft nose is clipped and filed off flush with the jacket.  The resulting meplat is considerably larger than the 150 Remington PSP factory load and similar to the 180 Speer.  Little loss of ballistic performance should occur, as the bullet still has most of its tapering ogive.  It is also possible to load the levergun as a two shot with pointed bullets, one in the chamber, the other in the tube.

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,7180.msg73017.html#msg73017

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y228/johnnyrem/180HornsspGC.jpg

[GURU]

i tried the front rest in a couple spots and i couldnt really tell much difference. one thing i didnt do was add pressure to the fore end .i'll try that next. i had similar problems with my 22" 45-70 with really hot loads , it shot factory rem 300's (1600- 1650fps)great but wild groups with anything over 2000 fps. the whelen seem a little better with the 200gr. rem . i think i'll get some 200 hornady spire point and try them with a bigger charge of reloader 15