Author Topic: Aluminum foil & expanding bullets  (Read 1697 times)

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Offline cooper

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Aluminum foil & expanding bullets
« on: November 04, 2008, 04:13:38 PM »
Veral, in a post several weeks ago you mentioned putting a strip of aluminum foil in a bullet mould to help the bullet expand.  You said you could follow-up with more information if anyone was interested.

I would like to learn more about this procedure, including data on things like how deep the aluminum foil needs to go into the bullet, best alloys to use, impact velocity limitations, etc.   

Offline jhalcott

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Re: Aluminum foil & expanding bullets
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2008, 04:10:09 PM »
  What mold are you planning on using to make these "scissor" bullets?

Offline cooper

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Re: Aluminum foil & expanding bullets
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2008, 05:22:19 AM »
Lyman #31141 for 30/30 and 30/06, also numerous 40 cal moulds for a 40/90 Sharps. 

Also various moulds for the 44 magnum.   

Offline jhalcott

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Re: Aluminum foil & expanding bullets
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2008, 02:52:12 PM »
  well I ain't Veral, but I used this trick in the 45-70 years ago. I used the 450 grain mold. I would stretch a piece of foil across the mold face  covering the forward half. Try to keep the foil edge square to the axis of the mold. I do NOT know how well this will work on skinny bullets as I haven't tried it on them. I also never used it with alloys SOFTER than wheel weight. My mold is a gas check design, I figured it and the solid bottom half of the bullet would hold it together till it hit some thing. I got some funny exit wounds when I used them in my 45-70. I'd get the mold a bit hotter than normal to make up for the heat loss while putting the foil on. After cooling, the excess foil can be trimmed off with a sharp knife.

Offline Veral

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Re: Aluminum foil & expanding bullets
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2008, 06:47:24 PM »
  All good questions.
 
  The alloy MUST be very ductile.  This dictates pure lead and tin lead only for bullets which must penetrate well.  Since the harder tin lead alloys age soften rapidly, mixes richer than 1/20 will have to be used within a couple of weeks after casting if they are loaded to full potential, or to the point where leading begins to be a problem.  In other words, if a load is developed which is on the thresh hold of leading and some of the hardness is lost, severe leading and inaccuracy will ruin the loads.  So I recommed 1/20 tin lead alloy only, and live with whatever speed is possible with that hardness.  Keep in mind that the best lubrication possible is mandatory to get good speed, and the best is one of the LBT bullet lubricants.

  For varmints, where good straight and deep penetration isn't a factor, use antimonial alloys and the wings will break off soon as the bullets open up.  Hardened ww alloy is fine, or aircooled.  The wings will break off with either. 

  If you are using a mold that is undersize, use heavy duty kitchen foil and you'll increase diameter of the bullet nose by .002.  If it is of proper size, use standard duty foil, which is .001 thick and won't open the mold as much, but will be a little easier to handle the little pieces while inserting in the mold.

  Depth to insert is up to the user, type of gun, velocity etc.  If the foil is inserted too deep, the long petals will open up with cyntrifugal force before the bullets reach your target.  For safety sake, experiment to find the depth where petals open in flight at the speed you'll be shooting, then back the foil depth up by a good amount so you are far from problems.  The foil doens't have to be deep.  One caliber deep is adaquate and probably best, while even less is fine for the slimmer rifle calibers.  It works well for all calibers, so I'm speaking broadly here.

  Easiest way to insert the foil strips is to cut them so the alignment pins don't interfere and a bit wider then mandatory.  Lay each strip on the mold, to a line drawn at the desired depth (use fine felt pen), then fold the excess down so the pieces are L shaped.  These can be dropped quickly on the hot mold if you turn it partly upside down.  If the foil slips a little while closing the mold you'll see the bent leg standing out from the mold and can fix it without wasting the bullets.

  My recommendations is that they be used for varmints only with handguns and for game up to deer with most rifles throwing bullets of 150 grains and up.  For big game, it is best to keep the petals short, because the 'mushroom' will hold together better, and penetrate deeper than with long petals.
Veral Smith

Offline jhalcott

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Re: Aluminum foil & expanding bullets
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2008, 11:00:46 AM »
 Veral ,reading this answere gives ME some ideas as to what happened with MY bullets. I used a wheel weight alloy only! Apparently this is too HARD . The petals broke off and made secondary wounds in the few deer I used them on. Giving 2 or 3 exit holes ,or one long thin one in a deer shot at about 25 yards.
  I'd USUALLY put the foil to the end of the nose section ,I did go to about half the base area on a couple for testing . Accuracy was NOT good enough for hunting though! I tried other materials like note book paper, ( the lines helped align it) with no measure of success. I tried a test with very soft lead alloy but was worried that an accidental drop would ruin them as a few were slightly open from JUST such an event. I was casting them at work and a coworker needed the table for a pump. He pushed the box of freshly cast bullets and the box fell to the floor. We fixed the pump and I picked up the bullets. I noticed a few were mishapped and had opened slightly. Then I went back to the WW alloy,aircooled. Going from memory the velocity was only about 1450? fps. A Mauser bolt rifle or a 14" contender was the gun used.

Offline Veral

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Re: Aluminum foil & expanding bullets
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2008, 03:30:20 PM »
  Information on what went wrong is good information when the why is understood.  Thanks!

  The tendacy is to split too deep.  Go just enough to make them expand at longer ranges for big game.

  Use no antimony, as it causes the petals to break.  Those secondary projectles may sound good to some shooters, and they can be quite deadly on deer and smaller animals, but they don't penetrate true, and are likely to punch the guts which ruins the meat if the animal isn't gutted and washed out very quickly.  I did it with an elk years ago, using a boat tail, with a range of about 500 yards.  The core seperated with no expansion of the lead, and yawed off through the guts.  The shot was accross a canyon, and it took me near a half hour to circle around and get to the down animal.  The meat wasn't fit to eat, though we ate it anyhow.  Once two people eat a WHOLE NASTY elk because their bullet didn't work right, they get very opinionated! 
Veral Smith