Author Topic: Newbie question about brass...  (Read 1174 times)

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Offline no guns here

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Newbie question about brass...
« on: November 05, 2008, 11:46:16 PM »
Okay, I DON'T currently reload but I do plan to start later this year.  I want to start buying components.  I will be buying brass soon for the following cartridges/guns/purposes.

.30-'06     Rem 700     Big game
.308         Tikka T3     Big game
.223         AR             General purpose, varmint, I don't shoot competition
.357 Mag   SW PC rev  general purpose, hunting
.45-70      Marlin 1895  Big game
.45 ACP     1911          General shooting, self defense, target

What I want to know is what brass to buy.  In general I'm not interested in getting the absolute best, highest quality stuff.  I need functional fairly long lasting brass.  I'm interested in maintaining the current accuracy level of factory loads in my rifles and handguns.  I've heard nothing but praise for Lapua but it's EXPENSIVE.  When I look around I see that Remmy stuff is about the cheapest, but is it any good?  On a scale of 1-10 is it in general a 2 or a 9?  What would you folks recommend?  Is there a better brand for each cartridge or just an overall "best"? 

Thanks for your opinions,
ngh         
"I feared for my life!"

Offline Czech_too

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Re: Newbie question about brass...
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2008, 12:43:23 AM »
My personal preference is Starline brass.  Can't base that on any 'documented proof' that it's better, just my preference.

Brian, in Ohio
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Offline Grumulkin

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Re: Newbie question about brass...
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2008, 02:15:25 AM »
For the 30/06, I've found military brass to be very good as long as you're willing to cull out those cases with eccentric flash holes and as long as it's from the same manufacturer.

As for the other cartridges you mention, I wouldn't agonize too much about getting the "best."  I doubt very much that Lapua brass is enough better to be worth the cost.

For most cartridges, I use Remington and Winchester brass.  In some I use Federal brass; not because it's better but just because I got some economically.  For loading a couple of magnum cartridges I do go the premium brass route because case life was very poor with cheaper brass; those premium brass brands would be Norma and Hornady.  I use Starline brass in a couple of cartridges and have no complaints with it.

If you want to go the "best" route, I would recommend Norma, Nosler and Hornady preferably from the same brass lot.  In their premium brass lines, the case mouths have been chamfered, the primer pockets deburred, etc.

Offline Glanceblamm

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Re: Newbie question about brass...
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2008, 03:50:10 AM »
I always did like that Norma brass for the Varmint/Predator calibers.

Offline yooper77

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Re: Newbie question about brass...
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2008, 04:07:44 AM »
I use the cheapest I can find with excellent success.

With my 30-06 Springfield, 308 Winchester & 223 Remington
- I use military, Remington, Winchester, or anything once fired in any brand

My 357 Magnum & 45 ACP
-Anything I can find, doesn't matter the brand.

I don't reload for the 45-70 GOVT, but I would buy the cheapest brass and see how it goes.

I can't afford Norma, Nosler or Hornady, too pricey for my taste.

Now after saying all that, I do inspect each round everytime its loaded, and I also anneal my brass to extend its life.

yooper77

Offline Badnews Bob

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Re: Newbie question about brass...
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2008, 04:19:06 AM »
I genrally use whats on sale, For my use there is no appreciable difference. I get inside of an inch and a half groups with most of my firearms some better I don't benchrest shoot so tighter groups mean nothing to me. being able to hit a 6" target offhand in the woods at varying ranges is what matters. My loads can do that so I'm happy. I use allot of range scrap and recycled lead also.

  BTW if I was going to get into bench shooting and squeeze that last little smige out of my rifles I would pay close attention to my brass and every thing else, I respect what those guys do but its not for me and its not necessary for hunting or plinking. Have fun reloading I really enjoy it. 8)

Yooper posted while I was typing, I agree 100%.
Badnews Bob
AE-2 USN retired

Offline Old Syko

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Re: Newbie question about brass...
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2008, 06:15:59 AM »
Mil-surp is not only still readily available but much cheaper than anything else allowing you to buy more for the same money.  It is also an excellent choice for everything you mention other than possibly the 357 mag and the 45-70 and that's only because those 2 don't seem to be used by the military.  You'll need a swage die set to prep primer pockets but this is offset by the fact that Mil-surp bottlenecked cases are already annealed, therefore less prone to premature work hardening.

Take a look at the links provided as a sticky at the top of the handloading page for many sources of availability.

Offline kiddekop

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Re: Newbie question about brass...
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2008, 10:09:05 AM »
Okay, I DON'T currently reload but I do plan to start later this year.  I want to start buying components.  I will be buying brass soon for the following cartridges/guns/purposes.

.30-'06     Rem 700     Big game
.308         Tikka T3     Big game
.223         AR             General purpose, varmint, I don't shoot competition
.357 Mag   SW PC rev  general purpose, hunting
.45-70      Marlin 1895  Big game
.45 ACP     1911          General shooting, self defense, target

What I want to know is what brass to buy.  In general I'm not interested in getting the absolute best, highest quality stuff.  I need functional fairly long lasting brass.  I'm interested in maintaining the current accuracy level of factory loads in my rifles and handguns.  I've heard nothing but praise for Lapua but it's EXPENSIVE.  When I look around I see that Remmy stuff is about the cheapest, but is it any good?  On a scale of 1-10 is it in general a 2 or a 9?  What would you folks recommend?  Is there a better brand for each cartridge or just an overall "best"? 

Thanks for your opinions,
ngh         
I keep a check on www.midwayusa.com for brass sales and blem bullets

Offline iiranger

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Ever heard of Shotgun News???
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2008, 10:45:37 AM »
Basically you want to "shop around." (shotgunnews.com and hard copy!) There is also Gun List but I got started in SGN long before GL. There are suppliers of pull down '06 military cases and bullets even yet. Great, tough cases and fairly cheap. .308 is still in use. You will have to full length resize. Most is fired in Machine guns. .223, same story. .45 ACP is not common anymore but occassional. Then you can look for the ranges that sell once fired. Or google fired brass. Or try Ebay. (They are so confused...) As long as you are not trying to "put them all in one hole" on the target range in competition, you can meet the desire you express and considerable savings ... You just have to shop. Yes, the Midway sales are great for the less common calibers. And Natchez. And Mid South Shooters. And Grafs. And ... Shop around. Save. wideners.com. (handles IMI --Israeli Military Industries)... luck.

Offline inluvwithsara

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Re: Newbie question about brass...
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2008, 10:49:49 AM »
My personal preference is Starline brass.  Can't base that on any 'documented proof' that it's better, just my preference.

Brian, in Ohio
Amen...Been reloading awhile...9/357/40/45/44mag/45-70...always starline...used to use what I could find cheap, on 357/40/44mag/ and 45-70 I now only use starline...the others are low pressure enough for any brass that I find...
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

Offline Wynn

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Re: Newbie question about brass...
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2008, 02:32:15 PM »
In the calibers you list, I have found that Military LC brass and Remington have given me good loads with long case life. Not really against other brands but if it aint broke, don't fix it.  My one brass exception is that I use strictly Lapua brass for my 6.5 CZ and Swedes. The Lapua case head is to speck but the American stuff is undersized. Probably sized from 06 brass which is .474 in the Remington. Spec size is .480 for the 6.5x55. Improved my groups dramatically and extracts much easier
American by birth; Southern by the Grace of God

Offline calvon

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Re: Newbie question about brass...
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2008, 04:14:41 PM »
Another vote for Starline. My comment is limited to 9mm Luger, .357 Sig, and .40 S&W, the only calibers that I load for nowadays, and the only Starline brass I've used.

Offline no guns here

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Re: Newbie question about brass...
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2008, 09:34:14 PM »
Hmmm... sounds like I can get by quite easily with Remmy stuff.  Guys... thanks for all the opinion and information.  Time to order...


ngh
"I feared for my life!"

Offline qajaq59

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Re: Newbie question about brass...
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2008, 12:18:17 AM »
You'll do ok with the Remington. I started with it many years ago and never really saw any particular reason to change.

Offline Grumulkin

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Re: Newbie question about brass...
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2008, 05:48:58 AM »
There is an exceptionally good article in in the December 2008 issue of Handloader magazine.  The author, who must be a very compulsive fellow, was working with 308 Winchester loads so the results can't necessarily be the same for other cartridges.  In one of the many tests on this cartridge, he reloaded various cartridge case brands to failure.  A brief summary of the results is:

1.  The Nosler and Federal military cases failed on the 11th shot.
2.  The Winchester case failed on the 14th shot.
3.  The plain Remington case failed on the 20th shot.
4.  The Norma case failed on the 24th shot.

The above results could very well be different with different brass lots.

The author used various components with Varget powder.  From an accuracy point of view, the best accuracy was obtained with:

1.  CCI 250 primers.
2.  Nosler cases.
3.  Berger match bullets.

The worst accuracy was with:

1.  CCI BR-2 primers (quite a surprise to me).
2.  Winchester virgin cases and Hornady once fired brass.
3.  A 165 gr. bullet called the J-36 Hunting (LRB) which I've never heard of.  The Barnes MRX and Woodleigh Weldcore bullets didn't fair too well either.

If you can get a copy, the whole article is worth reading in detail.

Offline Tn Jim

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Re: Newbie question about brass...
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2008, 08:09:25 AM »
For me...
223- LC military
30-06, 7mm-08- Remington
45 acp- Starline or Winchester
9mm, 44 mag, 44 special, 45-70- Starline
That's what has worked for me so far.
Not all Muslims are terrorist, but oddly enough, all terrorist are Muslims.

Offline Jim n Iowa

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Re: Newbie question about brass...
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2008, 02:50:42 PM »
I but new Winchester brass and primers.
Jim

Offline charles p

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Re: Newbie question about brass...
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2008, 03:22:13 PM »
In my opinion you will not be able to tell the difference in makes of brass.  I have been reloading for 35 years.  I sort my brass by manufacturer, but for hunting loads, I do not really care which brass manufacturer I use.  When I have a brass related problem, it is always a trim to length problem or a die set up problem.

I do shy away from military brass as it is thicker and case capacity is different.  I load for nine different rifle cartridges.

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Newbie question about brass...
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2008, 07:08:06 AM »
Except for USGI 30 cal and 7.62 brass, I've always had the "brass is brass" kinda attitude.   ;)  But then I segregate my brass by manufacturer and don't use the brands interchangeably in load development.

FWIW, I loaded up 40 rounds for a friends 270 Handi Rifle I have been working with, 20 rounds with Remington brass and 20 rounds with Federal brass.  Everything else was exactly the same.  After sighting in and just out of curiosity I had him shoot 2 (3 shot) groups with each.   For some reason, I dunno why, the different brass grouped a few inches apart, laterally.   :-\

This VERY limited experiment shows nothing, proves nothing and means nothing except to me and that is it reinforces my decision to keep my brass separated by headstamp.   ;D
Richard
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Newbie question about brass...
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2008, 10:43:30 AM »
if you want the best go with lake city for the 223 308 and o6 and starline for the rest. If your not fussy it really doesnt matter what brand you use.
blue lives matter

Offline corbanzo

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Re: Newbie question about brass...
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2008, 11:21:55 AM »
The only thing I've noticed with remmy is you may need a little more prep at first, like clearing flash hole, and evening the case mouth, but that is the first loading only of course. 

I really like starline for my pistols, but will really use about anything in an autoloader. 

Usually I try and find a good deal on a lot of fired brass, sort out the ones I want, and sell off the rest.  I have bought large lots of brass, where when I sold the ones I didn't want, I actually made my money back on the deal, while still getting enough brass for myself, so keep your eyes open. 
"At least with a gun that big, if you miss and hit the rocks in front of him it'll stone him to death..."

Offline Steve P

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Re: Newbie question about brass...
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2008, 09:12:43 AM »
I shoot competition to the tune of 5000+ centerfire rounds a year.  Not near what others do, nor what I would like to do, but still LOTS more than your average hunter.  I have one gun that has specialized brass.  My custom XP-100 in 6.5BR Remington uses Lapua brass that was purchased in a lot of 1000.  This brass was sized, neck turned, primer pockets uniformed, trimmed, weighted, etc.  It will consistently shoot 1.0" groups at 200 meters if I do my part.  I have another XP-100 in 7TCU.  It uses Remington range brass that was sized, primer pockets uniformed, weighted, trimmed, etc.  It shoots 1.0" groups at 200 meters if I do my part.  $.47 each or $.05 each.  Both guns get the job done.

I have thousands of 38s, 357s, 9mms, 40s, 45s, etc at home.  Mixed range brass all.  For majority of my handguns, no difference in the way it shoots.

For my competition .357s I use same brand and lot of brass if possible.  My FA has a lot of Starline Brass and a lot of Winchester brass that I use.  Both loaded with exact load.  NO difference in accuracy, felt recoil, sight adjustments, etc.

Basically what I am trying to say here; Most guns wont care as much about the brand of brass as they do about the way it is loaded.  Range .357 brass in my Colt wont keep accuracy like my FA, but it doesn't have to to provide me the enjoyment I am seeking out of it.

Your hunting guns should be loaded with same brand of brass so you have consistent reloads.  Your plinking and fun guns can be about any brand of brass and still provide you the level of accuracy and enjoyment your gun is capable of providing.

Don't spend lots of $$ on expensive brass.  Buy the range and once fired brass and spend lots of $$ on more guns to shoot it with.

Steve :)
"Life is a play before an audience of One.  When your play is over, will your audience stand and applaude, or stay seated and cry?"  SP 2002

Offline 25/06

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Re: Newbie question about brass...
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2008, 09:00:47 AM »
id use whatever you can get. if buying new i prefer winchester. just keep your cases from your ammo you are shooting now and use that