Which AR?

[teddy12b]

I’ve gone full circle with AR-15 rifles.  I originally bought a Colt Hbar standard A2 (fixed regular stock & fixed carry handle).  I used that to practice before leaving for Army Basic.  

I ended up selling that when $$ got tight and bought a Bushmaster 6.8 “M4” (collapsible stock & flat top receiver with removable carry handle and a fixed front sight) when $$ became available again.  The bushmaster functioned fine, but wasn’t all that accurate.  It was a completely stock gun and the accuracy improvements I wanted to do (free float handguard & trigger) were only going to get me so far.  

I sold that rifle to fund buying a DPMS 308B (fixed regular stock with a flattop receiver and no front sight.  Now that rifle was really something.  I was able to hit targets at 700 yards as fast as I could pull the trigger with that rifle and it was a lot of fun, but it was heavy and cumbersome not to mention a little more expensive to feed.  I put a timney 3# single stage trigger in this gun myself and it was simple to do and made a huge difference.  I had to sell that rifle when $$ got tight with the news of a baby.

Since then, I bought a DPMS complete lower (collapsible stock), and then a DPMS complete upper (flat top receiver with no front sight) in 223 as $$ became available.  The DPMS upper has a free floated bull barrel and it’s easy to put a scope on it.  I haven’t fired many rounds through this rifle yet, (less than 200) so I consider it to be barely broken in.  I haven’t done any real accuracy testing yet, but will after deer season.  By putting it together myself I was able to setup the rifle exactly how I'd want it and it cost me under $750 with everything being brand new.  

Those are the rifles I’ve owned and am familiar with.  I don’t really get into lasers & lights on a semi-auto rifle, but that’s just me.  The big items I look for are a free floated barrel (R-15 has that) and a flat top receiver (R-15 has that).  There are a lot of guys doing their own camo patterns with different spray paints, but if you want the professionally done look I’d go with the R-15.  I was thinking that DPMS made the R-15’s especially since the R-10 in 308 is the DPMS design.  
In any case I think all the Colt, Bushmaster, and DPMS rifles are great and I wouldn’t hesitate to buy any of the rifles I’ve owned again.  

[myronman3]

I'm a little surprised by your comment on the heavy pull of the R15. From what I've read it is supposed to be coming from the factory with a pull less than 4 pounds which for a rifle for such uses as I'd likely make of it that's OK. Was it in your opinion much heavier?

g.b. - keep in mind i am comparing them to 2 stage match triggers.   i didnt mean to imply that the trigger was bad...just the opposite.   all my guns had good triggers whether they came with them or they were made that way.   the remington trigger was just a little heavier than i am used to.  now compared to other factory ar triggers, i would say that it would be around 4-5 pounds, but the difference would be that the remmy didnt have any creep in it.   it you are a remington man,  i would not hesitate to give it a thumbs up; especially since there is the whole bushmaster affiliation.   

[jsoukup]

I just beat the rush. I got a DPMS lower about 4 months ago, and slapped a Rock River CAR upper on it last Tuesday. Pretty impressed with the RRA upper, pretty stout. The CAR barrel is pretty heavy which is good and bad. The DPMS has a basic GI trigger, so it's not very good. Probably going to send off the trigger and have it tuned soon. Also the collapsible stock has quite a bit of play in it, more annoying than anything on an otherwise tight rifle. Still waiting to take the first shot though.

It's hard not to get caught up in the mall ninja/zombie killing thing of hanging a bunch of crap on your rifle...

BUT, A Bushnell Holosight and a mounted light are going to kick butt on my next late night varmint hunt.

 

[teddy12b]

I had a really hard time trying to figure what to put on my current AR-15 as far as the sights or scope goes.  I wanted something that I could shoot both fast and precisely with and most of the dots on red dot sights are at least 1 MOA or bigger without any ability to zoom in and take precision shots.

I ended up with a burris fullfield 2-7 with ballistic plex.  I keep it on the 2x and it's a fast scope, but if I want to zoom out there a 7x should take care of any target I want to shoot at with a 223 and the hold over dots will be nice.

Eventually I'll buy some iron sights for it, but I'm not in any hurry.

[SDS-GEN]

Just FYI the Rock River is available with the 2 stage NM trigger as an option.  The single stage trigger is about $80 cheaper and they will set it to your specifications.

[PHATINJUN]

GB every thing you say about the black gun is kind of like you read my mind. Never gave any of it much thought but at least this thread has answred lots of ? I may of had. But since early in this thread you didn't particuarly care what the color is...I say PINK yes pink is the color you should look for Kurt

[mirage1988]

Figure this one out-
Minnesota legalizes the .223 for deer the same year the man who wants to ban guns gets elected! W T H?
Ive always been a bolt-gun, muzzle-loader shooter, until I got a BAR  7 mm. What a deer gun. One shot kills every time. Accurate-low recoil, k/d power, what more do you want? Shot an AR this weekend! WOW-This thing is legal? Where can I get one? If I buy one is OBAMAS security force going to take it away?

[Graybeard]

But since early in this thread you didn't particuarly care what the color is...I say PINK yes pink is the color you should look for   Kurt

Uh yeah well Kurt, some colors are kinda NOT on the list of possible options.  

I hope to get out later today to see just what's in stock around the area and to see what can be ordered in with reasonable wait times. At this point I really do think I want the Remington R15 if it is available in stock or to be ordered with reasonable delay. I'm not locked in concrete on it but at this point it is the one that appeals most to me.

I'll handle some assuming they are still in stock locally and get a better feel for them then.

I've been doing a bit of looking around at magazine availability and prices and must admit to some sticker shock. I was kinda thinking of picking up several mags with 30 to 40 shot capacity but find most seem to be in the $30-$40 range or higher. I did notice on either Bushmaster or DPMS site they had 20 round mags for around $12 or so.

Are those the standard going rate on them?

I'm kinda wanting to have at least two or three set up as pairs with the clip things to hold them so you just pull it out turn it around and reinsert a fresh mag. At least I think I like that idea for a real shore nuff SHTF situation. Are those considered good ideas in such cases? For most shooting I'm sure 20 shot or even smaller mags would be preferred but if you had to use it in a real life self defense situation against a large number of attackers I'm thinking larger is better and the faster that next fresh one can be inserted the better.

Times they are a changing and not for the better. I fear the day when riots and looting and roving gangs attacking and looting are in our future more so than ever before have I felt such. I sure hope I'm grossly wrong on that.

But what the heck those ARs just keep showing up in larger numbers at the annual GBO Prairie Dog Shoots so I think I'd look good shooting an camo one at the 2009 shoot.

If I buy one is OBAMAS security force going to take it away?

They probably are gonna try to. I guess only time will tell if they are successful at that attempt.

[Mikey]

Bill - I would get the DPMS.  Colt caved into the government long ago and probably built miniature gps sensors built into the stocks on their guns, so they could track'm.....

Get the DPMS, standard rifle configuration unless you are going to scope it and shoot longer range.  A standard rifle with 20" bbl will hit out to 400m - which is what you need. 

Get a black rifle - camo is too easy to set down and lose.  $30-40 is too much for 30-40 rnd magazines but may be the going price.  Those clip things add double the magazine weight to the magazine latch - you save no time trying to switch mags withone of those contraptions than you save over the standard infantry 'open pouch' carry. 

If you want to save some $, get a AK.  The American made versions are just as good as you can get, ammo is plentiful and 30 rnd mags run about $10.  HTH. 

[teddy12b]

I stopped by gander mountain last night and was pleasantly surprised.  They had plenty of ar-15's on the shelf and a brand new R-15 for a $1000.  They were completely out of primers, but had plenty of powder.

The DPMS site has magazines for $12 and they are great.  There is another thread here talking about all the mags and it's a must read if you're thinking about buying some magazines.  Any website that sells mags for the $10 - $13 range must be watched daily since they get sold and are out of stock so fast.

[myronman3]

g.b. my advice is avoid dpms as i have heard bad things about their customer service.   bushmaster was really good when i have called them concerning installing a two stage trigger for a friend.   
   if i were going to buy a new one and what i wanted in bushmaster wasnt available;  rock river would be my next choice.  i have heard NOTHING but good things from those who have them.   the remingtons are interesting; but remington screwed my dad but good back in the eightys and i am a grudge holding prick.  not saying i wouldnt own one; but just that the screwing  they gave dad still dont sit right with me so it is a factor in the equation. 
   go out and see what you think after handling them.   i think right now you are on the right track and have a pretty good idea about which direction you want to go.   
   one other thing, i would not get the 40 round mags.   20 is good and so are the 30's; with magpul followers if available.   if not,  i would aquire some and install them in the mags you get.  they are cheap and will make the gun that much more reliable.  they should be standard equipment if you ask me.   anyhow, happy shopping and keep us posted.

[teddy12b]

g.b. my advice is avoid dpms as i have heard bad things about their customer service. 

The only bad thing I've ever read about on DPMS customer service is that they struggle to supply parts because demand is so high for them.  I've read about guys placing custom orders that take 6-8 months.  I know that's not what people want to hear, but I think they are behind in production for a good reason.  Everyone keeps buying their products as fast as they can make them.

[myronman3]

i have heard enough bad about them to make me nervous.   

[teddy12b]

Over on AR15.com they are usually spoken of very well, especially the SASS versions.

AR15.com is a great source of information on these and other rifles.

[skifastchad]

Can I add a question to this thread? 
I've been shopping around for an AR recently too.
I've noticed big differences in fit and finish between different brands, mostly with the fit of the upper to the lower. 

Is there a way to shim up the gap and twist between the upper and lower?

From what I've noticed, there is little to no gap in the S&W mp15's that I've inspected.  Most of the new bushmasters and panthers Ive seen have about a 40 thousandths gap between the upper and lower, and they seem loose.  For close to $1000 I don't want to have moving parts that aren't supposed to move.

[myronman3]

as far as that goes, the bushmaster variminter that i used to have, i could shoot bugs walking across my target at 100 yards.  i dont worry all that much about upper to lower fit.   if you are really worried about it, put an accu-wedge in your gun.  about $4. 

[S.B.]

I am with Dee on this one. I had a Colt and a Bushmaster. The Bushmaster is a better gun in my experience.

Cheese

Colt's quality fell off for a while and FN was the supplier for our military. I think Colt got it back now?
myronman3, depends how they're set up, my Colt Military model, with a free floated handguard and Krieger barrel will outshoot my Remington HB 22/250 at 100 yards?

[PHATINJUN]

GB you might want to stay away from the white digital also being the amount of snow you get down there. I have looked at several of those Remingtons that digital desert is pretty cool looking. Kurt

[RicMic]

OK guys the way this election came out and the way I see future events unfolding I have decided it's time for me to get an AR even tho I've never had any interest in one before.

I'm not necessarily looking for the best or the cheapest really and quite frankly have never given them even a passing thought in the past. It must be .223 and take the standard commonly available mags so I can stock up on ammo and mags at best prices.

I'm not particularly into black guns so one in camo or green or whatever would to me actually be a plus but color isn't gonna be a deal breaker either. It will be a strictly utilitarian last ditch defense use gun for me.

What should I be looking at to meet those requirements?

I felt the same way, until a black man will make the black rifles disappear (and many others).  So, this morning I bought the only black rifle within 75 miles of me, a Colt H-Bar Match Target Comp.  I have shot Colts for years in the service and found them satisfactory for their intended purpose.  My first choice would be a Rock River Arms, then Bushmaster, then Colt.  For right now I'm happy.

[Dand]

Good thread folks.  I'm more in the dark on these rifles than GB but have become interested as more and more articles are appearing about how accurate they can be. Darn the luck that there is a run on them these days. I have become a bit dissatisfied with the accuracy of my Ruger #1 in 223 and had begun to think about an accurate alternative after my first visit to a Montana Pdog patch. Maybe I should jump on the band wagon.

[myronman3]

Maybe I should jump on the band wagon.

might as well as there is plenty of room and it isnt too late just yet.

[Mitch in MI]

I say PINK yes pink is the color you should look for Kurt

Funny you should say that, Kurt. I was just about to recommend Sanrio's AR:
http://blog.riflegear.com/archive/2007/12/26/hello-kitty-ar-15---evil-black-rifle-meets-cute-and.aspx

[Graybeard]

Now that looks like what I should get for the wife. 

Dand no one is more in the dark than me on these things. But in my case the deed is done and it's a Remington R15 VTR. Now I just have to decide on the proper sighting equipment for it since the Remington R15s come minus any sort of sights.

[Default]

OHHHH Now come on Bill I know you have a good scope laying around, Just begging for a home on that new remmie ..

 I placed my leopuld 3-12x40 on my DPMS LR308 AP4 (fancy talk for a AR in 308 cal. ) it works quite well for any range i would be interested in shooting at

 

    Default

[jmayton]

My colt wears a cheap BSA right now, but will soon get a Millett DMS.  The best part of my set up is the rings and back-up sights.  I use Warne Ultra-High quick detachables and a GG&G back-up sight and standard front sight.  I can remove the scope, go with the backups and the replace the scope with only a tiny change in POI.  It's a good way to go if it's a hunting/self defense/SHTF gun.

[alsaqr]

Take a look at the Stag Arms guns.   There is a Stag Arms model to suit nearly anyone, including lefties:  The company owner is a lefty.   I have a 4L that makes three shot .75" and better groups at 100 yards.  My 3L is at the dealer and i will pick it up on Monday.

 http://www.stagarms.com/index.php?cPath=13

[Graybeard]

For sure Default I have a few scopes laying around. I have a couple of sets of QD rings on the way also. I have a Leupold 3X that is a decent candidate and a Leupold 2-7x33 shotgun scope that is also a good candidate. I've got a spare VX-III 2.5-8 and a spare VX-II 3-9 laying around as well. One set of rings will have  Mueller APV4.5-14 mounted and sighted in for longer range use.

I did find what I will most likely use as my close combat sight today. It was an EOtech holosight in camo. It will sure look good on that camo Remmy R15. I was in the process of figuring out how to operate it and buying some 30 round mags and also talking another deal when the guy waiting on me pissed me off big time. Needless to say I left without the EOtech but didn't leave without the 30 round mags as they are nearly impossible to find these days.

I also traded for a Charles Daly AR-15 today in addtion to the R15. Had to pay a bit of boot but had a rifle I didn't really need and it made good trading material on what appears to be a nice up close use AR.

It is set up with a carrying handle and sights and a telescoping stock. It came with only one 30 round mag but the guy put two in. There was one in the rifle and one in the box. Dunno how many were supposed to come with it but he took the one out of the rifle and laid it in the case beside the one already in the case. He closed the case and secured the four latches with both in it. While I had my back turned on the case looking at the EOTech or maybe when I was looking at another potential buy someone opened the case and removed a 30 round mag.

I noticed the case open and looked inside. I asked what happened to my other mag and the fellow that handled the deal said there was no second mag and that he had not put two in which I had watched him do. Now if they had just told me it was done in error and showed me it wasn't supposed to come with two then I'd have accepted it but to be lied to about it when I watched him close the case on two then someone removed one while my back was turned looking at another item to buy well that was just too much for me to take. I'll never set foot in that store again.

OHHHH Now come on Bill I know you have a good scope laying around, Just begging for a home on that new remmie ..

 I placed my leopuld 3-12x40 on my DPMS LR308 AP4 (fancy talk for a AR in 308 cal. ) it works quite well for any range i would be interested in shooting at

 

    Default

[backstrap]

What did he do steel it for himself so he could say it whent out the door with the rifle he sold u, and not have to buy another  for himself  what a a@@ hole

[Cheesehead]

Lauers custom weaponry has many AR configurations with many colors and patterns.

http://www.lauerweaponry.com/index.cfm?Category=120

Cheese

[Lloyd Smale]

heres my take on it. I to carried colts and i still think there hard to beat. If price was no object id say colt and end this post. Are they worth the extra 500 bucks over the next best? Probably not. Some of the ohter good ones ive owned and have shot extensively are the rra, stag arm dpms and bushmaster in that order of prefernce. Bushmaster are good for the money but ive seen a couple with quality control problems. I think it could be that they crank out 5 of them to every one of the others that are sold and are bound to let a few crap ones sneak by. My buddy just bought a remington (bushmaster) and it seems like a good gun so far but not enough rounds have gone through it to really make a call yet. For less yet ill recomend something i never thought i would ever recomend. Ive had 3 differnt olys. and they were all junk in my opinion but the last couple i handled seem like they were much better put together guns. Im thinking to of picking up another. A guy cant have to many of them. I think if i can find a good rra that will be what i buy. I also am in the market for a good complete lower for the 50 beowulf upper i just got. I was just going to swap it around with one of the others but i hate having it sit here without its own lower.