Author Topic: .45 Colt or .45 Long Colt??? (Read 2896 times)

TOWCOBRA1 · « **on:** November 07, 2008, 10:28:29 PM »

I recently purchased a Taurus judge-6 1/2" bbl, .410/.45colt. I began gathering up everthing needed to reload the .45 portion. Of the several sources I broused, I found references to .45 colt and .45 long colt for brass and bullets. I know older (late 1880's-early 1900's) are loaded down compared to the more modern weapons. But the term .45 colt vs .45 long colt?? What is the difference, are they the same, and what do I need for my Judge? Can anyone help this dummy. Thanks for your help. $:-\$
John A.

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 08, 2008, 01:12:04 AM »

Back in the old days, there were several 45's on the market. When Colt came out with the "new" 45, they named it 45 Long Colt. This is so that there would be no confusion with the shorter versions that were available at the time. As time passed the shorter versions died off. As they died off so did the "long" part of the name. Most people now refer to the 45 Long Colt as simply the 45 Colt or Colt 45. If you ask or order brass, ask for the 45 Colt, you will get what you need. The one you want has case dimensions of 1.285" long by .480" diameter with a .512" diameter rim. I would not go above regular Colt 45 loads for your Judge. Hornady lists revolver loads and Ruger/T/C loads - use the revolver loads; not the Ruger/T/C loads. You will find even the revolver loads are going to be a handful. Good Luck and Good Shooting

bigjeepman · « **Reply #2 on:** November 08, 2008, 02:52:42 AM »

I only use Starline brass for my .45 colt revolvers and Marlin rifle. I know this isn't what you asked about but thought it might prove helpful in selecting components.

bjm

cwlongshot · « **Reply #3 on:** November 08, 2008, 03:35:31 AM »

TOWCOBRA1
Congratulations on the purchase!! If you could, please post up how you like the feel amd shootabailty of this gun. I too have been on the fence about the purchase... I confess I l like the idea of a .410 revolver more then a 45Colt's. Dont get me wrong I LOVE the .45 Colt. I have 3 or 4 of them in handguns. But I have "learned" the .410's stellar fight stop abilities. Some time ago, I had a .410 Derringer. I sold it to a friend in need and miss having one. The 5 shot ability of this handgun in a short barrel is very apealing.....

CW

S.E.Ak · « **Reply #4 on:** November 08, 2008, 03:39:55 AM »

The 45 Colt was the first and there was nothing to compare it to as weather it was long,short etc.Then the 45 Russian came out and it was shorter so some started calling the original the long colt.45Colt is the proper term but both are excepted

yooper77 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 08, 2008, 04:05:45 AM »

I believe the name change came from the 45 Schofield.
-The 45 Colt was nick named the 45 Long Colt since it was longer then the 45 Schofield.

yooper77

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #6 on:** November 08, 2008, 07:18:48 AM »

It was never named .45 Long Colt it was always just .45 Colt, People just hung the long colt name on it, Its kind of like calling a feller named Robert--- Bob or William is Bill. But it has never offically been Long Colt.

just one of those odd things.

iiranger · « **Reply #7 on:** November 08, 2008, 08:09:52 AM »

After the Civil War there were two pistol companys competing. Colt and S&W. Surprise! Colt made the "Peacemaker" as we still know it using the .45 Colt round, quite long. S&W had a single action with the "break" mass ejection feature. A modified design for the cavalry became the Schofield, so named for Mjr Schofield a cavalry officer and designer. It took a .45 cartridge that was shorter, BUT would fire in the .45 Colt cylinder... Less powder and less power... somewhat.

Of course the Army QM (Quarter Master) consistenly provided the longer Colt round to troops armed with the S&W revolvers... totally useless AND troops with the Colt got the less powerful .45 S&W round which was workable but less powerfullllllll....

ERGO the orders came in for ".45 LONG Colt" ammunition...(not .45 S&W which is shorter) except where the gun was S&W and required NOT the Long Colt round...

Slang lives. And the term "long Colt" survives. Then there were less powerful and less costly rounds made for guns for practice, not unline the rimfire "short," "long," and "long rifle." There was an "extra long rifle" too. The Sears catalogue reprints from 1908 are quite instructive. Yes, if you go by only the factory lists and not real life experience it is seldom "long Colt." Otherwise, you, today, have ".45 Colt" /.45 Long Colt or .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) except that the Schofield is back in production as a copy, Navy Arms I think, and so you can still find the .45 S&W... which can be used as a short, less powerful Colt round... Stop when your head starts to hurt... Enjoy the gun. luck.

TOWCOBRA1 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 08, 2008, 09:34:21 PM »

Thanks everyone for the interesting history on this older carry over round. The info cleared the fog. Many thanks.

CWLONGSHOT---concerning the Judge. I like it. I have the 6 1/2" bbl. My main use for it is in a shoulder holster when I am on my tractor bush-hogging the kudzu. I regularly see rattle snakes trying to escape. I thought the .410 part would roll them in a ball then put some .45 in the middle ( I load 3 .410 & 2 .45 in the cylinder). ( I used to try to carry my single shot 410 shotgun along but this proved impractical.) The shot pellets spread out more than you would think. With rifling in the bbl the shot cup spins and scatters the shot more. This is good for stopping a fight without killing/maiming someone but you won't be cutting a snake into 2 pieces at 15 ft. With the 45 part--there is a long jump to the end of the cylinder--so long range steel target shooting is asking a bit much from it. It has a special niche that it fills. The 3" bbl stainless steel version would be the best choice for a personal protection carry gun. The grips on mine have soft rubber ribs. I like the way they feel in the hand. I hope this info helps. I like mine.
John A.

spinafish · « **Reply #9 on:** November 10, 2008, 03:17:11 AM »

I like using the term "long Colt", because every time I use the name .45 Colt everyone assumes I am talking about the .45 ACP and the 1911 pistol.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #10 on:** November 10, 2008, 07:22:20 AM »

I thought the Long got hung on it for any of these three reasons.
1 there was the 45 schofield that would work in both the Colt and the S&Ws, but the 45 Colt would only chamber in the Colt and the Army QM's stuck the long on it when they were buying both in the late 1800's and both were stamped 45 ammo. In typical army fasion the Colt ammo was sent to troops with S&W Schofields and the S&W ammo was sent to troops with the Colts SAA. The guys with the Colt SAA's just loaded and shot. The troops with the S&W revolvers had no ammo. So typical Army, they only bought the SAA's and the S&W ammo. Hey does this mean that the legendary stopping power of the 45 that had the army develope the 1911 was actually the 45 Schofield and not the Colt?
2 the 45 ACP was also refered to as 45 Colt. ACP being Auto Colt Pistol. And the Long simply refered to the revolver round.
3 that Colt had the 38 Long Colt and the "Long" name just transfered to the 45 over time.

corbanzo · « **Reply #11 on:** November 10, 2008, 09:25:24 AM »

I wouldn't agree with number two or three of that statement. The .45 acp came out far after the .45 long colt, meaning the name had nothing to do with the other round. The .45 long colt came out because the case was longer than the other .45 caliber revolver rounds at the time (specifically the .45 schofield) so your number one is right on.

And the .38 colt came out after the .45 colt, so if there was a name transfer, it was the other way around.

Quote from: spinafish on November 10, 2008, 03:17:11 AM

I like using the term "long Colt", because every time I use the name .45 Colt everyone assumes I am talking about the .45 ACP and the 1911 pistol.

This is an example of why I don't like talking to people who don't know what they are talking about.....

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #12 on:** November 10, 2008, 01:00:00 PM »

Corbanzo,
The 45 Colt came out in 1873 the 38 Long colt came out in the M1900 revolver and the 45 ACP was developed in 1909 or 1910 depending on what history book you read. In the 1920's through the 70's all were made at the same time and were popular. Who is to say when the LONG name got hung on the 45 Colt revolver round. If you can show me where someone wrote about the 45 Long before 1900 I will believe that the Long got hung on the 38 due to the 45 but other than that the LONG was a new word for Colt and refered to a step up from 38 S&W and S&W responded with the Special round that is longer than the long.
In the 50's when 45 S&W and Colt large frame revolvers were popular in both 45 ACP and 45 Colt is when the word Long appeared on boxes of ammo from Winchester. Again is it a mix up with 38 Long Colt on the box or to show diff between the two 45 colts? Or did Win start using it because that is what it was called from it's army days. Look back and see when the earliest use of the words 45 Colt is used and that may give you the answer as to who and how Long got hung on the 45 Colt.

Mack in N.C. · « **Reply #13 on:** November 11, 2008, 12:49:02 PM »

cant recall the magazine but i read it in barnes an noble in the last month...one of the editors talked about the 45 long colt and how some people say this and that, an how he laughs because he has a old box of ammo that he picked up somewhere that is ammo for a 45 short colt......so there actually was a short colt and the long was used to differentaite it from the short......i know i read this in the last month i will see if i can find the article...mack

Sweetwater · « **Reply #14 on:** November 11, 2008, 01:07:04 PM »

I would be careful about using "because the 38 or 32 have one" to this 'naming feature' as they both had a short and long round, as well as an ACP round, and guns to fit them.
I've heard several 'theories' about the 45, and hope to learn something following this thread.

Regards,
Sweetwater

corbanzo · « **Reply #15 on:** November 11, 2008, 07:49:42 PM »

Hmmmm... most sources, almost all sources which I have read the information state that the "long" originated with military personel to distinguish between the .45 colt and the shorter .45 schofield, and this is when the round first came out.

I'm sure that the term long has been used to differentiate it from other rounds after this, but I am talking about the original coining.

I would like to see the sources where all these other ideas come from saying it wasn't called the long colt until whenever it is you guys are saying.

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #16 on:** November 12, 2008, 02:26:32 AM »

I can add to this debate. No real answers - I think the Long handle is slang to differentiate it from the "short" Colt...maybe

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/45_short_colt.htm

Castaway · « **Reply #17 on:** November 12, 2008, 01:10:12 PM »

My head is hurting! If I were a cowboy in the 1880's and had a bullet launcher that was chambered in 45 and I went to the local general store, I surely ask for 45 "short" Colt (a misnomer meaning 45 Schofield) or 45 "long" colt, depending on what I had to load it in. It ain't hard. It's a mold/mould, clip/magazine question. Currently, if you say either term, by common use, people know what you're talking about. Got to go, I have lint collecting in my belly button and have to pick it out.

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #18 on:** November 12, 2008, 01:25:54 PM »

'K - What do you call the cartridge that was shorter than a 45 Colt (not the 45 Schofield) that fit the 45 Colt chamber?

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #19 on:** November 12, 2008, 01:43:19 PM »

.45 Russian would I do believe.

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #20 on:** November 12, 2008, 03:29:22 PM »

The debate over whether there is a .45 "Long" Colt cartridge is an on-going one that has been active for probably 75 years. Elmer Keith alluded to the arguments many years ago when he wrote "...Some newcomers to the game claim there is no such animal, but if they had shot the short variety that Remington turned out in such profusion before, during and after World War I they would see there was some basis in referring to the .45 Colt as the .45 Long..." (Sixguns, page 285)

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #21 on:** November 13, 2008, 05:52:28 AM »

Badnewsbob,
You are thinking of 44. Where there is 44 russian, 44 special, and 44 mag.
44 russian was and is a great round. really accurate. Similar to the 38 S&W, long/Special, and 357 Mag.
The only short 45's I know of are the 45 S&W (Schofield), 455 Webley, and the 45 auto rim. Maybe your thinking of the webley round? It was British not Russian but with all the socialism in England I can see your confussion.

The auto rim was made so guys shooting the 1917's and the other 45ACP revolvers did not have to use the 1/2 or full moon clips. The rim was thicker to allow for the rim and the clip and have the case in the right spot for the hammer to hit the primer. In the 80's Federal introduced a 9mm version for the S&W J frame revolvers that were made in 9mm for a while.

yooper77 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 13, 2008, 06:11:09 AM »

Guys have you seen this brass.

http://www.cowboy45special.com/cowboy45brass.html\

yooper77

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #23 on:** November 13, 2008, 06:21:06 AM »

Thats the problem right there woodduck I was thinking I should never do that, I only have two brain cells left and they don't get along to well. Good thing breathing is an automatic function.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #24 on:** November 13, 2008, 06:47:40 AM »

Not a problem.

corbanzo · « **Reply #25 on:** November 15, 2008, 10:21:02 AM »

How much colt can a long colt colt when a long colt isn't a colt long?