Author Topic: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES (Read 5134 times)

Dee · « **Reply #60 on:** December 15, 2008, 04:20:58 AM »

Quote from: phalanx on December 13, 2008, 09:13:02 AM

Well now DEE a 1978 Buick Regal ? those things were better armored than some Tanks in some third world country's were.
I just never could do the Cocked and locked thing ,having grown up on the Colt SAA ,a little voice always says NO in the back of my head.
I know totally different Bla, Bla ,but a hammer back is just that ,a Hammer back and i have two 1911s.
Now i can stand a Double action auto , i carry a .40 Baby Eagle and i love it , also i have thing for steel receivers.
And i am not that old , 48 ,im just a Texan what can i say.

Well actually phalanx, the 78 Regals were just as thin as the rest of the cars back then. But you really can't expect ANY bullet to be very reliable shooting into cars.
On the cocked and locked thing, a single action army is far, far different from a 1911. Just as some don't know that a Glock has a striker rather than a hammer, and it is partially cocked after each round, and when in carry mode with a round chambered. So there goes your double action auto theory.

SO! depending on your forty calibers parentage, you may be carrying a double action only that is when a round is chambered, is on half cock to lighten the next trigger pull. Wouldn't that be something if you were going around half cocked all the time and didn't even know it"?

Just kidding now.
The SSA if it is an original Colt has no safety rather than either an empty chamber, or carrying the hammer down between chambers which was a method used in by gone years. Hollyweird changed that.
The Series 70 1911s have a thumb safety, and grip safety, and can be carried cocked and locked. Whether the hammer is "up or down" if dropped on the muzzle it CAN go off, but it must hit on the barrel portion not the slide, as the slide will crack it slightly out of battery, and it may or may not go off. I have never had this happen, and don't know anyone whom has.
The Series 80s have a thumb safety, a grip safety, AND a drop safety.
I too have a thing about aluminum receivers in lue of all steel receivers depending on how much volume a pistol or revolver is fired. The aluminum of the past CAN stress crack, but the newer ones? Not likely.
I am not that old either, just 59, and have been a Texan for those 59 years. What can "I" say.

bilmac · « **Reply #61 on:** December 15, 2008, 05:14:07 AM »

I was talking of the hammer sticking out there looking all vulnerable ready to grab stuff or get bent. As I said this is mostly all perception, like the previous post said, but it must be fairly universal. I've seen a lot of 1911s on hips mostly in the military but I've only seen one carried cocked, and when I saw it my mind did a double take.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #62 on:** December 15, 2008, 05:28:25 AM »

another difference to discuss is aluminum vs steel receivers. The main benefit of aluminum is reduced weight and thus we are more likely to have the pistol with us when needed. As is often written, aluminum framed pistols are to be carried a lot and shot seldom. In a condition black situation; you will not notice the increased recoil.

Come to AZ. You will see cocked and locked. No one gives it a second look; unless we are checking out what kind of 1911 it happens to be

Dee · « **Reply #63 on:** December 15, 2008, 05:37:19 AM »

Same here in Texas SharonAnne. Lot of Law Enforcement cocked and locked. Especially Texas Rangers. They love'em.
As for military carry. Hell I have seen military standing around and they don't even have a magazine in their rifles, much less their pistols cocked. And before anyone jumps on this, I am not talking about Iraq.

bilmac · « **Reply #64 on:** December 15, 2008, 05:38:00 AM »

Arizona is the home of Jeff Cooper's school isn't it? How did I get into a discussion about semis? I'm a died in the wool 6shooter guy, you ain't ever gonna change my mind, and I won't change your's either.

Dee · « **Reply #65 on:** December 15, 2008, 05:42:05 AM »

Actually bilmac, I carry both and like both.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #66 on:** December 15, 2008, 05:51:44 AM »

Yes, Jeff Coopers school, Gunsite is in Arizona. He sold the school but continued to live in his home on the range (sounds trite) until his death.

I am not sure how this became an autopistol discussion. Revolvers come with aluminum frames and exotic light weights like Scandium. These too fall in the carry often shoot seldom category.

BTW, Gunsite has excellent courses for the revolver shooter. Gunsite was founded to explore better gun fighting technique. Yes, Jeff loved his 1911; he did not ignore the reality that many people prefer revolvers and it was up to his school to explore better revolver techniques also.

Dee · « **Reply #67 on:** December 15, 2008, 05:58:23 AM »

When I was still teaching I did not always agree with all of Cooper's fighting techniques, HOWEVER, I taught AND PRACTICED, his mindset theories, and I know for a fact they worked, and worked very well. Cooper was a realist, and those are the real fighters.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #68 on:** December 15, 2008, 06:34:09 AM »

sorry I asked about cocked and locked looked like a good place to ask. I carry a mod 38 airweight S&W and shoot it enough to be able to use it ( and yes it has been sent back to be tightened up because i shoot it a bit . what good is it if ya can't hit with it anyway ? ) Back up is a 1911 either on me , in office if I'm there or in truck and a 870 in truck. when legal . So i like and use both as both have advantage and disavantage .
Shot gun is legal alot of places a handgun is not , my sporting clays gun you know !

SharonAnne · « **Reply #69 on:** December 15, 2008, 05:46:51 PM »

yeah, yeah, that's it. Sporting Clays,yeah. Side saddle ammo carrier, fore end flashlight, full length magazine tube, yeah that's it, Sporting Clays

Mohawk · « **Reply #70 on:** December 15, 2008, 09:19:14 PM »

Well, SharonAnne, you didn't know that an H&K MP5-K makes a good rabbit gun? The full auto is just for a running shot....

SharonAnne · « **Reply #71 on:** December 15, 2008, 10:49:23 PM »

I shot a suppressed MP5 on our Rio Salado range. I fired at a 24"X24" steel plate at 300 yd off hand. 30 rd in short bursts. I could see the ground kicking up around it and I heard at least 3 hits. RO got a big kick out of it. Yep, good runnin wabbit gun.

Mohawk · « **Reply #72 on:** December 15, 2008, 11:27:16 PM »

I think my best moment was the guy at the range with a suppressed original Mac-10 9mm. Didn't remember to lean into it. 1100rpm, we had to replace light balasts and several ceiling tiles. That's a chase the squirrel up the tree gun. Anywho, off topic, but it was funny.....

SharonAnne · « **Reply #73 on:** December 16, 2008, 03:03:07 AM »

well, it IS different and no revolver could ever do that.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #74 on:** December 16, 2008, 04:50:34 AM »

SA ya can't go full bore on options with the sporting clays gun , leave the short bbl. off till ya need it . BTW pratice goes a long way with full auto .

SharonAnne · « **Reply #75 on:** December 16, 2008, 12:17:43 PM »

I have always said that automatic fire is for experts. God forbid anyone should ever shoot at me, but if it happens, I hope they use automatic weapons. The chance of being hit goes WAY down.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #76 on:** December 16, 2008, 12:24:14 PM »

full auto is very good for those that sell bullets

i takes me at least $30 to get warmed up

i would really hate for some one with a handi rifle from H&R to be after me

bilmac · « **Reply #77 on:** December 16, 2008, 01:05:29 PM »

I figure all those Aks in the hands of those terror guys are for sound effects only.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #78 on:** December 16, 2008, 03:58:44 PM »

and they say a pump shotgun makes an intimidating sound

Mohawk · « **Reply #79 on:** December 16, 2008, 08:53:59 PM »

I'd rather hear a shotgun slide than hear nothing at all, especially if I'm the point........

SharonAnne · « **Reply #80 on:** December 16, 2008, 11:03:08 PM »

my 870 is 'cocked and locked'

Mikey · « **Reply #81 on:** December 17, 2008, 12:55:26 AM »

"As is often written, aluminum framed pistols are to be carried a lot and shot seldom" - musta been a gunwriter that said that..........ya know, the type that shoot little but write much..............

Differences?: Here's one for ya 'bout guys and gals: Gals come with lightweight frames and exotic Scandium-navian sights. Guys don't................

Sorry...................just hadta..........

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #82 on:** December 17, 2008, 02:39:16 AM »

SA in down town Richmond i was on the reciving end of a burst of full auto fire once , i agree with what you said but two things come to mind first the closer they are the less your statement is comforting and it scared the h--l out of me ! they were a hundred yards away and it was spray for fun , don't believe i was a target just in the wrong place at the wrong time . For years it wasn't odd to hear gun fire in the city anytime day or night . lots of full auto weapons here !

SharonAnne · « **Reply #83 on:** December 17, 2008, 05:14:27 AM »

yes. I have lived in areas that you would hear gunfire at all hours, some automatic. And yes, automatic fire from 20 ft would have a high pucker factor.
My reference to my 870 being 'cocked and locked' alluded to me not giving an audible warning that I am armed. If someone is in my house, uninvited, they are a threat. Law abiding people do not enter anothers home uninvited.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #84 on:** December 17, 2008, 06:13:54 AM »

couldn't agree more and a 870 is my choice also

ironglow · « **Reply #85 on:** December 17, 2008, 11:12:39 AM »

I appreciate Wm bringing up this discussion, since I have only recently decided on carrying more often than previously..which has been ..little to none.
I also appreciate the voices of experience here..Dee, mikey, Bilmac, Shootall and the rest. A couple things I learned in my limited use of handguns is, a lightweight auto must be held firmly or it can fail to cycle..my revolvers can get crudded up between cylinder and forcing cone, just as Dee said.
One pistol I once had, didn't like but wish I had back...
It was 1955 and I was in tank training at Ft Knox, KY..my issue 1911 was made by Singer..just read about one that sold for $80,000..LOL

gstewart44 · « **Reply #86 on:** December 17, 2008, 12:07:21 PM »

Quote from: SharonAnne on December 17, 2008, 05:14:27 AM

yes. I have lived in areas that you would hear gunfire at all hours, some automatic. And yes, automatic fire from 20 ft would have a high pucker factor.
My reference to my 870 being 'cocked and locked' alluded to me not giving an audible warning that I am armed. If someone is in my house, uninvited, they are a threat. Law abiding people do not enter anothers home uninvited.

I second this SA......if someone is trying to gain entry to my place I am not going to give him a chance to "hear" the slide being racked. It will be ready to send the BG to Judgement Day....without a sound. Same goes for the 1911 or SW 1917......

ironglow · « **Reply #87 on:** December 18, 2008, 03:42:14 AM »

Gestewar;
Sometimes a sound can send a message! A burglar, upon hearing the distinctive sound of a pump shotgun racking in a new round; may very well take a message from it!

gstewart44 · « **Reply #88 on:** December 18, 2008, 07:03:47 AM »

Ironglow,

while I agree that the sound of a racking pumpgun may deter a "burglar" who has entered my house to steal, I honestly don't think that most of us would have the convenience of determining whether the BG is a punk burglar or a more determined armed robber hellbent on getting money and/or drugs. In my area a majority of intrusions are drug related and they usually don't go down nicely.

If I knew someone was trying to gain entry to my house I would not want to wait for him to "hear" me shucking a shell into my shotgun, thus giving away my position. I would rather be "cocked and locked" for the first confrontation.

Dee · « **Reply #89 on:** December 18, 2008, 07:52:13 AM »

Quote from: ironglow on December 18, 2008, 03:42:14 AM

Gestewar;
Sometimes a sound can send a message! A burglar, upon hearing the distinctive sound of a pump shotgun racking in a new round; may very well take a message from it!

Not to argue but, I have had the discomfort of performing the maneuver on two separate occasions in an effort to stop with out blood shed a confrontation. On these two occasions both parties dared me to use it. I was not completely justified either time, but they did break me from the habit of thinking a shotgun scared everyone, because it does not.
From that day forward, I pulled it only when I intended to use it, and was justified. The intimidation factor is very unreliable.
As someone has said earlier. Don't show your hand BEFORE the fight. Show it after you have won the fight. That way all will see whose blood is on it. Yours or theirs.