Author Topic: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES  (Read 5140 times)

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Offline Savage

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2008, 07:26:49 AM »
best plan then would be several of each ?

You betcha!!! That's my plan. Couldn't be without my revolvers!!
Savage
An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last,

Offline Dee

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2008, 07:59:07 AM »
In another thread entitled ".38 snub vs Kel-Tec 380" I outlined a few conciderations when choosing a   a carry gun that fit well into this thread as well.

    
Re: 38 snub vs Kel-Tec 380
« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2008, 09:02:46 PM »
   
Depends on your level of knowledge and/or desire to learn the proper handling and care of the weapon.

I certainly would agree with this.

Ease of operation:

Semi-auto pistols often have a plethora of levers and buttons (safeties, slide releases, decocking levers, magazine releases, etc.) that you will have to be intimately familiar with if you are going to trust your life to it.  You had also learn and practice the TAp-RAck-Bang drill in case of a stove pipe (failure to fully eject a spent case) or Failure to Fire (FTF).

I would agree with all this, and add FTF (Fail to FEED). The same can be said of a revolver, concerning the proper way to open and close the cylinder, speed loaders, or strips if used and grip.

Revolvers - Point gun, squeeze trigger, bang!   In the 1 in a 1,000 chance that it does not go bang, squeeze the trigger again.

I believe that to be a very dangerous piece of advice in the event of a hang fire. To immediately pull the trigger again without waiting several seconds, one may relieve the opponent of shooting you, you may shoot yourself with two rounds going off at once. This has happened many times, and will no doubt happen many more times.

Care and feeding:

An auto loader requires more maintenance and more mechanical aptitude than does a revolver.  If an automatic pistol is carried in a pocket, especially without a pocket holster, it will collect lint and debris that can cause a  (FTF) at the most inconvenient time.  To avoid this I recommend two things, 1. Use a holster. 2. Field strip, (entails the removal of the slide and barrel), clean and test fire any auto pistol used for concealed carry at least once a month.

With this last statement I say; I disagree. An automatic of quality is in battery with a closed breach, and has very few openings for lint and debris to collect. After a quality automatic pistol has proven that it can cycle 200 rounds without a cleaning, misfire, or fail to feed it is considered reliable. I have been carrying, building them, and maintaining them for almost 40 years. I went against two gentlemen and won, with a pistol that had probably not been cleaned in a month, and was carried every day. Your analogy is a myth. Sorry no offense.

Revolvers on the other hand usually operate without a hitch even when they are filthy dirty and don't require the removal of any parts for a general cleaning.  However, I still recommend the use of a holster as a safety measure.   This goes for ladies hand bag carry as well.  Keep you piece in a separate compartment away from hair brushes, lip stick, ballpoint pens, car keys or any other objects that could get entangled  in the trigger causing an Accidental Discharge (AD).  Or better yet invest in one of those handbags designed specifically for CCW holders with a built in easy access  holster.

To this statement I must once again say; I disagree. Lint, dust dirt and especially SAND can easily work it's way into the hammer area, and down into the sear area. Lint, dirt, dust, and SAND can get in to the area of the cylinder face, and forcing cone, and LOCK IT UP. Excess leading can lock it up, a bent crane can cause not to open, WD40 can build up inside if one cleans with it, or lubes with it, and will latterly slow the hammer down so much that one may experience 100% misfires status. It also offers a better chance of solvent contamination of rounds, where an auto isolates the rounds in a magazine.
I have also use one of these in a fight. It performed as expected.


Auto-pistols can be ammo sensitive, not wanting to feed some brands or types of ammo properly causing jambs and FTFs.

If they are not of good quality this is true. If they are not properly tuned this is true. But if they are of GOOD quality and properly tuned it is not true.

Though a revolver may shoot some ammo more accurately than an other I have yet to see or hear of anyone experiencing a jamb or FTF due to a particular brand or style of ammo.

I started training and qualifying police officers in 1978 until 1998. I have seen many jams due to leading between the cylinder face and forcing cone. I have also seen a rapid fire test ran on a Colt Python, using magnum ammunition and speed loader with the weapon locking up due to heat before the 50 rounds were fired.

Capacity And Concealability:

Where the revolver may have an edge over most semiautomatic pistolsl in ease of operation and nearly fool proof reliability, with a few notable exceptions you only get five or six shots out of the revolver before it runs dry.  A full size duty pistol on the other hand can hold nineteen or more rounds.  Concealability is another area where the semi-auto pistol could hold an advantage.  the girth of a revolver is dictated by the revolving cylinder which holds the ammo. Even a 5 shot J-frame snubby is portly when compared side by side to some of the sub-compact semi-auto's having a single stack magazine.

With this statement I agree with, to a point, but a nearly fool proof reliability of the revolver is not necessarily true. It also take more practice to shoot a DOUBLE ACTION revovler accurately under stress. Also while stating that a "duty pistol" holding 19 or more rounds is usually anemic in stopping power due to caliber. I have found thru my own experiences and fellow officers experiences, that if the fight lasts much past 7 or 8 rounds, your tactics are not working, and one should think about either change them, or trying to leave.

In summery, revolvers tend to be more user friendly but pistols generally give you more rounds at the ready in a trimmer package.

For the inexperienced, I would agree on this statement entirely concerning the revolver. Pistols do offer more rounds, and faster reloads, but one should consider caliber over getting carried away on capacity.

Making the decision to carry a firearm for self defense is one not to be taken lightly.  I believe we have the God given right to defend ourselves and our loved ones from violent encounters however we also have the responsibility to do so in a responsible manner.  Get the proper firearms training before you start to carry. Know when and where the use of deadly force is appropriate and legal.  Whether you choose a revolver or a semi-automatic pistol be sure that you are intimately familiar with it's operation and maintenance and most of all practice, practice, practice.

With this statement, I will agree with entirely. One should be prepare ones self to be a fight stopper, rather than a liability.

   
Hope this helped.

And I hope I did not offend.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Mohawk

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2008, 08:06:55 PM »
  Dee has a great point about a revolver catching lead between the cylinder face and forcing cone. This happened to me when qualifying with an off duty revolver, Smith Model 10 about 9 years ago. I filed a tad off the forcing cone to get a bit more BC gap. Haven't had a problem since. And if I remember right it was just powder residue that caused the lock up. I was fine until about the 50 round mark. Then it started to bind. I think I was using Win White Box 130 fmj's? And one other time we had a batch of Magtech .38 Fmj-flat points that about every 20 rounds were seated too far. The difference was so minute, that you wouldn't notice it until you loaded the cylinder and it would not close, the recoil shield would not alow it. Until the batch was finished we learned to watch, and listen, for the rim of the case to "tap" the cylinder during loading. Ok for slow practice but it would have been a major issue if that was duty/carry ammo or during a drill.

Offline Bigeasy

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2008, 11:16:35 PM »
I think one mistake people make is they choose a self defence handgun based on size - the smaller the better.  The best handgun for most people to actually use in a self defence situation is going to be a full size weapon.

As we begin to look for reduced size for concealability, and reduced caliber / power for ease of shooting, we begin to compromise.  Yes, subcompact handguns in smaller calibers can work well, but the need for serious practice becomes even more important.  A buddy of mine used to carry a 4 shot Freedom Arms .22 mag mini revolver in his shirt pocket as a back up weapon.  Most of the other guys were carrying Walther PPK/S .380's as back ups at the time, and laughed at that .22 mag.  Well, that guy could hit a man size qualification target at 50 yards with that gun, almost all the time.  Most of the guys with the .380's could not...  Practice makes perfect.

A serious shooter who really commits him / herself to learning their weapon of choice will be proficient with it, no matter the type or design.  That said, I think most folks, who are not going to go out and shoot 100 rounds a week, every week, to master their weapon, are better off served with one of the "idiot proof" designs that have come out in recent years.

"Idiot proof" is not really meant to be insulting, it just reflects the fact that the military, and many police departments learned - that simple to operate, middle of the road calibers and designs are best when training time is a factor, as it often is for civilian permit users.

Me, the thought of someone with very little practice and training with his finger on the trigger of single action .45 in a stressful situation is a little scary.  The same with a woman trying to defend herself against an armed rapist with a cheap .25 auto, purchased because it was "small, and not that loud".

I think compact guns like the mini Glocks in .9mm are a great choice.  Small enough to conceal, but big enough to handle decent.  powerfull enough, with good ammo, to get the job done without intimidating the average shooter, and with a trigger that is very useable, but resistant to accidental discharge in stressful situations.  Factor in great reliability, and I see this category of handgun as a solid choice for the average user.  In the end, its just like golf - you want to be good?, you got to practice.  How much time and effort and expense is your life worth?

OK, my 2 cents worth..

Larry
Personal opinion is a good thing, and everyone is entitled to one.  The hard part is separating informed opinion from someone who is just blowing hot air....

Offline Mohawk

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2008, 12:23:07 AM »
 I Don't think there will ever be an answer. A comfortable gun in magnum levels people have recoil issues, and uncomfortable guns that are controllable have underpowered cartridges. As far a muzzle flash, recoil, etc. it is irrelavant. You won't notice. You will not even remember the number of rounds you shot. Your training will come back to you, as well as instinct to live. It reminds me of that Rocky movie where Rocky is facing the Russian guy, it is the last round, and his trainer says, " You have to punch, punch, punch, and punch, til you can't punch no more!" The fight for your life, or a loved one's does not end when you're out of rounds, when you can't reach the speedloader, or the magazine button to drop the empty. Fight til you can't fight no more, take a breath, and keep fighting. The fight ends when YOU say it ends. God bless the good guys, and Lord help the bad..........

Offline Dee

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2008, 01:32:19 AM »
I Don't think there will ever be an answer. A comfortable gun in magnum levels people have recoil issues, and uncomfortable guns that are controllable have underpowered cartridges. As far a muzzle flash, recoil, etc. it is irrelavant. You won't notice. You will not even remember the number of rounds you shot. Your training will come back to you, as well as instinct to live. It reminds me of that Rocky movie where Rocky is facing the Russian guy, it is the last round, and his trainer says, " You have to punch, punch, punch, and punch, til you can't punch no more!" The fight for your life, or a loved one's does not end when you're out of rounds, when you can't reach the speedloader, or the magazine button to drop the empty. Fight til you can't fight no more, take a breath, and keep fighting. The fight ends when YOU say it ends. God bless the good guys, and Lord help the bad..........

You are correct sir. On all points.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline bilmac

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2008, 01:52:49 AM »
What bigeasy says about size is true, in general the bigger the gun the more effective it can be. But on the other side of the argument, any gun is a thousand times better than no gun. The very nature of their intent requires criminals to get real close to their victims. And, you don't need to necessarily kill the bad guy, just drive them away. I would hate to see women being advised to get guns so big that instead of carrying them religeously every day, they start leaving them at home.

Offline Dee

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2008, 05:05:32 AM »
I agree bilmac. My wife AND my mother both carry air-weight Smiths in 38 special. It is more than enough, and light-weight.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2008, 05:55:06 AM »
if you have  to  ask

AIR WEIGHT SMITH  IN  38   like  dee  said  is  the  only  answer

what  all  my  family carries---sentenial/NO  exposed hammer

my  dad  carried  the body guard  showded hammer.can  be  cocked  but  not  safely  under stress

if an  untrained  shooter  finds  how  easy  it  is to  hit single  action  that  is  how they  will train
they  should not  have  that  option  and practice with THAT gun dooble action only [may as well  seal up  the lint hole]
YOU DON'T  WANT THEM  TO COCK THAT GUN  UNDER STRESS THEN  HAVE  TO LOWER IT ONCE THE FALSE ALARM PASSES

just  my speculation  and  not  based  on fact  just  my limited pbservation
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline williamlayton

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2008, 02:19:51 PM »
Here is another lady too consider.
I like the feel and weight of a large gun in a semi-auto.
I don't find them too be any less concealable.
Since I don't carry all day every day, I don't have a concern with it being uncomfortable, then again I find some too be more comfortable too carry than the .380 Walther in my car.
If we all fell in love---well, you know the rest.
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Offline Brett

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2008, 02:35:51 PM »
No offense taken DEE.  I was speaking in generalities. And generally speaking revolvers are less prone to stoppages than the average autoloader.  The examples you recounted of revolvers locking up due to lead build up were after many rounds had been fired.  If you find yourself in a gunfight that requires 50+ shots any handgun is the wrong gun. 

Also, I have yet to see any auto priced within reach of the average Joe that did not require some tuning/polishing or tweaking in order to be 100% reliable.

I tend to avoid rolling around in the sand when I'm packing.  We'll call this one a toss up and just say check your weapon periodically.   

You are absolutely correct regarding your warning about immediately pulling the trigger a second time on an FTF.   One should always wait several seconds, keeping the gun pointed down range in a safe direction before pulling the trigger again in case of a hangfire (slow ignition) during any practice sessions.  I was talking about a FTF during a life or death confrontation.  If I'm facing an armed adversary intent on doing me grave bodily harm I would take my chances with a hangfire.  If nothing else the gun blowing up in my hand might scare off my attacker. 
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Offline Dee

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2008, 03:20:44 PM »
Not so on the 50+ rounds fired Brett. A tight tolerance revolver can hang up after one round if the crane has been unknowingly damaged, and or the cylinder is out of alignment with the forcing cone. Or trash from a pocket has interfered with the cylinder rotation around the forcing cone. It may not fire the FIRST time. The average Joe must decide how much his life is worth as far as cost on an automatic.
Many swear by the Taurus revolver. I swear at them. I just tuned three Smiths. Two air weights, and one Model 60. Brand new guns. All three had atrocious trigger pulls in the double action mode. Far from being combat ready.
The cost many times to tuning a revolver in lue of tuning an automatic is not that much different. I have been tuning BOTH for over 35 years.
It is all preference and in many cases as to what one decides he wants to bet his life on.
I have an uncle that carried a 32 auto in one of the cheap brands. He asked me what I thought. I told him. He said I spend too much on a carry gun. I asked what he was going to do with the money he saved, by a nicer casket? Think about it. At the end of the party their going to bury the casket, and never re-use it. He went and bought a better quality sidearm.
I sincerely hope my next opponent (God forbid another) if there is one, buys a cheap sidearm. At least I will start better armed.
Personal protection should never be skimped on. If one truly feels that they should go armed in defense of themselves and family, should put off the bass boat, cut back on the beer, and buy the very best they can afford to buy, and then TRAIN-TRAIN-TRAIN.
Also. Mindset is as important as training. I have been in several altercations where someone made the right choice and lived. I absolutely had the advantage and WAS GOING TO WIN. I was prepared mentally and emotionally, and took the advantage immediately. In the two that were surprises, my training and mindset won out. No thinking require. Immediate response, and immediate finality to the threat. All were while using a quality sidearms or long arm that did not have to be worried about performing. As I said. The two surprises were one of each. A revolver the first time, and an auto the second time. TRAINING "EVERY TIME".
This discussion on defense would be better served if it were about preference and willingness to train to win.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Savage

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2008, 03:33:16 PM »
Also, I have yet to see any auto priced within reach of the average Joe that did not require some tuning/polishing or tweaking in order to be 100% reliable

Wow, Brett! I'm surprised to hear you make a statement like that!
Given good magazines, ammo, and proper lube I would expect any pistol from a major manufacturer to perform as close to 100% as mechanically possible out of the box. At least that has been my experience in the 10-15 yrs. Of the 15+ I have bought in that time period, I've had one (Kel tec P3AT) that had problems that required a little factory tweaking. 

I agree that a well maintained revolver is the gold standard for reliability. It has also been my observation and experience that they are not as rugged and durable as pistols under adverse conditions.
Again, I have and use both platforms. They both serve me equally well, so I have no axe to grind.
Savage

An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last,

Offline Brett

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2008, 04:54:35 PM »
Also, I have yet to see any auto priced within reach of the average Joe that did not require some tuning/polishing or tweaking in order to be 100% reliable

Wow, Brett! I'm surprised to hear you make a statement like that!
Given good magazines, ammo, and proper lube I would expect any pistol from a major manufacturer to perform as close to 100% as mechanically possible out of the box.
Savage



Yes, I would expect that too.  Unfortunately thats not always the case.  Many times magazine lips need to be tweaked and or feed ramps need to be polished.  Some autos, subcompacts in particular, refuse to feed some hollow points reliably.

I like both platforms myself and have no ax to grind either.  I'm just stating the pros and cons of both as I see them.  I thought my observations fitting since the topic of this thread was Discussing the Differences Between Pistols and Revolvers.  However, I will admit that I do not have the years of experience that you or DEE have.   

Dee, I don't have a boat and a case of beer last me a month or more. Wish I could afford a $1000 custom tuned concealed carry gun but I just can't, so I'll just have to make do with an old S&W m60 .38spl and a Kel-Tec P-11 9mm.

Oh, The quality control issues and brakeage you mentioned could just as easily apply to pistols as well.  I think one of the worst triggers I ever felt was on a S&W DAO pistol.
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Offline Mohawk

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2008, 09:53:09 PM »
  That's the thing. Training includes scenarios that you have NO gun or, NO bullets, and NO weapon. My evil opponent better shoot me quick, and hit my vitals, because ANYTHING I find around me will be used to make sure I live and survive to do the paperwork later. During my daily prayers, I include and promise, that there is NOTHING, that will harm my, child, state, family, pet rabbit, or objective today! If a bad guy shoots me, he better kill me! Having had to use my belt as handcuffs, you are never out of options, regardless of weapon reliability, or type of ammunition. Range time is important, but so is time needed to clear your weapon of a jam, dealing with a weak mag spring, or just it falls on the ground. TRAIN, TRAIN, TRAIN...that's it. When you can't REMEMBER what to do because of stress, you will REMEMBER  what you SHOULD do..ie: TRAINING. We are all good folks here just trying to invest in the safety of the folks we care about. I wish Dee had been my prior instructor, I know him better now, and wow, that would have been a great class!!! Anywho, my instructor told me years ago that "you WILL know when to use force, and you WILL not stop fighting until it is done". He was a very experienced instructor, worked Narc, and carried several alias DL's. He had been retired about 3 years at the time and his class was cool. He liked to tailor his classes to his experiences. Basically, and this was the greatest part, you emptied your weapon at no further than 4 yards, as fast as you could. Everyone is built with instincts that tell you something is "wrong". The good people are survivors, and the keepers of peace. My final word...If saving a life means using first aid/cpr or even an AED machine....you have done your job as a good person and citizen, no different than defending yourself or others. And when you sense things are "wrong", grip your snub in your pocket(that's where it should be) and listen, listen, look, and look. God gave you a gift....you are now using it.

Offline Dee

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #45 on: December 12, 2008, 12:52:23 AM »
Also, I have yet to see any auto priced within reach of the average Joe that did not require some tuning/polishing or tweaking in order to be 100% reliable

Wow, Brett! I'm surprised to hear you make a statement like that!
Given good magazines, ammo, and proper lube I would expect any pistol from a major manufacturer to perform as close to 100% as mechanically possible out of the box. At least that has been my experience in the 10-15 yrs. Of the 15+ I have bought in that time period, I've had one (Kel tec P3AT) that had problems that required a little factory tweaking. 

I agree that a well maintained revolver is the gold standard for reliability. It has also been my observation and experience that they are not as rugged and durable as pistols under adverse conditions.
Again, I have and use both platforms. They both serve me equally well, so I have no axe to grind.
Savage



Perhaps better said than I Savage. I too have both. Most of the time when I am out and about, I carry a 1911 45acp. BUT! When I am under dressed, I carry a Model 60 Smith with 357 mags.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline SharonAnne

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #46 on: December 12, 2008, 07:54:41 PM »
the differences. revolvers are BRTs, Big Round Things. autopistols are BFs, Bottom Feeders. end of discussions.
SharonAnne
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Offline Savage

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #47 on: December 13, 2008, 02:37:47 AM »
Looks like SharonAnne has said the benediction and dismissed the congregation on this one brothers and sisters. I'll just add, Amen!
Savage
An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last,

Offline bilmac

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #48 on: December 13, 2008, 03:01:03 AM »
She's been gone for awhile, I've missed the rough tough feminine touch

Offline williamlayton

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #49 on: December 13, 2008, 03:07:49 AM »
I giggle as I type.
This thread is wandering a bit but that is OK.
Brett makes a good point, I think.
I do have a couple of brands, Sig and STI, that I think are good, out of the box.
That said, I have some preferences in parts and I have made it a point for ANY semi that I own too go through the hands of Smith before I accept it.
Dawson does some extra things too the two I got from Him. Vanden Berg has touched the others except for the Sigs.
I don't know what income level we are talking about in this afford thought, but.
I save before I buy and I buy things that have a quality reputation.
I will spend 1K too 1500, but, Murphy not withstanding, I get things I can trust--and do.
I would not spend 300/500 On a RIA or EAA, put 500/600 break in rounds thru it and have 100% confidence in it. I might buy either but there are some inspections and parts that would happen before I even put 10 rounds thru them.
It is my life and I do it my way.
Blessings  
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline bilmac

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #50 on: December 13, 2008, 04:37:11 AM »
Bill  Would the Vanden Berg you mention be Bob Vanden Berg from N Dak. He is an old friend who would be on a forum like this if he knew about it.

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #51 on: December 13, 2008, 05:06:32 AM »
As to reliablity of revolvers versus autos, I've had far more failures to fire with double action revolvers than with any half way decent auto using normal ammo from .22 to .45. But that is range shooting. In a close quarter, hand to hand scuffle if anything at all interferes with the free cycling of the auto it is certain to jam. That is where I consider a revolver to be much more reliable. Personal defense is a very different world from police actions, and a very different world from Hollywood. In most personal defense scenerios you'll be engaged in fighting off an attacker before you can draw a gun and as soon as you draw your attacker will have a hand on your gun.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline SharonAnne

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #52 on: December 13, 2008, 09:07:09 AM »
i enjoyed the comment Savage but I have not been ordained anywhere, though I am a member of the Sisterhood of Southern Heathens.
"rough tough feminine touch"?!? Bilmac I am a wimp. Mouthy, but a wimp.
SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline phalanx

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #53 on: December 13, 2008, 09:13:02 AM »
Well now DEE a 1978 Buick Regal ???? those things were better armored than some Tanks in some third world country's were.
I just never could do the Cocked and locked thing ,having grown up on the Colt SAA ,a little voice always says NO in the back of my head.
I know totally different Bla, Bla ,but a hammer back is just that ,a Hammer back and i have two 1911s.
Now i can stand a Double action auto , i carry a .40 Baby Eagle and i love it , also i have thing for steel receivers.
And i am not that old , 48 ,im just a Texan what can i say.
In this time i Command ,That you take the Secular to Jerusalem .
There you rid the Holy City of the Scourge of Islam , Make the streets run red with the Blood of those who wish to wash Israel and Christianity from the face of the Earth.
Constantine III

Offline williamlayton

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #54 on: December 14, 2008, 01:56:15 AM »
Bilmac
No, not the same.
This one is in Houston, close too my home and is a avid gamer and builds custom game pistols as well.
He has done work for me, in the past, and is an excellent craftsman.
let's keep his name below the radar, I don't need him so popular that I can't use him when needed.  ;)
Actually he is well known and used around here.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #55 on: December 14, 2008, 06:35:50 AM »
whats wrong with cocked and locked ? What am i missing ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline SharonAnne

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #56 on: December 14, 2008, 06:45:39 AM »
there is nothing wrong with cocked and locked carry. Some perceive it to be unsafe. These same people carry their hunting rifles and shotguns in that mode without concern but it is 'invisible' since the hammer cannot be seen. So it is a problem of perception rather than reality.
SharonAnne
Luke 22:36-38

Honor the American Soldier and Sailor, the source of Our Freedom

Really, it only hurts when I breath - SharonAnne

An armed society is a polite society - Robert Heinlein

THE TREE OF LIBERTY MUST BE REFRESHED FROM TIME TO TIME WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS - Thomas Jefferson

Offline bilmac

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #57 on: December 14, 2008, 09:04:34 AM »
I agree it is all perception, and it still makes me cringe whenever I see  a pistol in that state. The only thing that could be said against it is that it would be theoretically more vulnerable to damage, that little lever arm hanging out in space unprotected.

Offline Dee

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #58 on: December 14, 2008, 01:53:29 PM »
As to reliablity of revolvers versus autos, I've had far more failures to fire with double action revolvers than with any half way decent auto using normal ammo from .22 to .45. But that is range shooting. In a close quarter, hand to hand scuffle if anything at all interferes with the free cycling of the auto it is certain to jam. That is where I consider a revolver to be much more reliable. Personal defense is a very different world from police actions, and a very different world from Hollywood. In most personal defense scenerios you'll be engaged in fighting off an attacker before you can draw a gun and as soon as you draw your attacker will have a hand on your gun.

coyotejoe, for the last 30 something years the FBI has kept records and stats on police involved shootings. The average distance is 7 feet or less, at night, and with about 6 rounds fired BETWEEN the two combatants total, not each. As far as a scuffle involving an auto vs a revolver. Retarding the slide cycle IS a possibility but it is no harder to grab the cylinder of a revolver which will not even let it fire the FIRST round.
Police actions different from real world? Not so much, just more likely. Hollywood? Not even close. Most police involved shootings are a SURPRISE to the police officer just as they are with Joe Blow citizen. The difference is training and the real key ALERTNESS TO YOUR SURRONDINGS, and a good old fashioned dose of paranoia.
This is not intended to argue, these are just stats, and experience. I used to train officers in techniques of protecting you gun, and in many environments, not even shaking hands with unknowns.
As far as personal defense scenerios, when someone attacks you, you will be engaged for sure, and I ALWAYS took it VERY PERSONAL. ;) Badge or not.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: LET'S DISCUSS DIFFERENCES
« Reply #59 on: December 15, 2008, 03:48:22 AM »
bilmac , please explain what damage ? what lever arm ?
The hammer seems sturdy enough , the safty lever seems protected .
My holster has a strap that goes between the hammer and slide which seems like a 4th. safety sort of . I mean to get a series 80 to fire i have to remove the safety strap , grip the gun so the grip safety is deactivated , thumb off the frame mounted safety and then pull the trigger . My glock or S&W revolver i just pull it out and pull the trigger .
So my 1911 series 80 looks more unsafe ? Guess i was looking for something concrete not theory , thanks though .
I have heard it was an improvement in safety in its early days over the SAA.
and built for use on horse back .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !