Author Topic: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?  (Read 2812 times)

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Offline Zachary

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Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« on: November 11, 2008, 04:46:22 AM »
I was at Gander Mountain the other day.  I was looking around and was just amazed how, despite the fact the economy is struggling (to be polite), that the prices of new guns and ammo just keep on shooting through the roof!  Yes, I realize that the higher costs in fuel have contributed to these inflated costs, but, then again, the industry has been raising their prices for quite some time, even well before the cost of fuel and oil went up.

Let me give you all just a brief example.  Some years ago - maybe about 10 years ago, I saw a box of plain-jane Remington 45-70 ammo for $9.99.  Then, some years later, I saw it go up to $19.99 (200% or double the amount).  Then, just yesterday, there was a gentleman in front of me and he was purchasing 2 boxes of the exact same ammo.  Guess how much he paid?  Would you believe $39.99 per box!?!  Well, that's what it was!  He bought 2 boxes and, with taxes, the total was over $80.00!

Now fellas, don't get me wrong, I perfectly understand capitalism and supply and demand.  However, where are we going?  With prices like these, I think that there is an argument to be made that it could not only reduce the amount of existing hunters from hunting but, just as importantly, deter new people from becoming hunters. 

Take a look at what someone new will have to pay to get into the game: new rifle, scope, ammo, hunting clothes and boots, license, etc.  Then, he/she has to pay for the actual hunt (guides, lease, etc.) (unless he/she is invited as a guest).  Such a cost could be well over $1,000.00 for the average person.  Yes, I realize that there are new bolt action rifles out there that are pretty cheap in price, but actually pretty well made (at least for the price), but still, it's kinda hard to escape the cost of ammo, etc.

I sure am glad I bought most of my guns a while back.  Heck, I could probably sell them now for more money than what I bought them!

Still, I'm just getting worried that things are getting too expensive.  What do you guys think?

Zachary

Offline kyelkhunter3006

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2008, 09:16:21 AM »
I agree that it's getting crazy.  Earlier this spring, when I was at Bass Pro Shops, I couldn't believe the prices on regular old Remington green box ammo.  The cheapest loads were $19.99, and went up to over $40 a box!  And it was common calibers too....243, .270, and so on.  Forget about the "premium" loads.  The only ammo that they had with what I would call decent pricing was Hornady, much of which was still in the $20 range.  The Federal and Winchester stuff was high as well.

It's getting so bad that I've sold all of my high power rifles except for my Rem. 7400 in 30-06 (a present from my wife while we were dating, so it'll always have a home.  I knew that I had better marry her too, when I opened the box, LOL).  I love to shoot,  but I just refuse to pay over $2 a shot in some cases.   I've been playing around with military sporters some this year, and the last box of .303 Brit ammo I bought from a shop (who's notorious for ripping people off, but they were the only game in town when I needed the ammo) cost me $45, but it was worth it to find out that the barrel was too worn to stabilize bullets (before buying the rifle).

The pistol caliber carbines are starting to look really good to me, as pistol ammo, while still expensive IMO, is considerably cheaper than rifle ammo on a per round basis, unless you're talking .460 S&W, the Linebaughs, and stuff like that.  Honestly, almost all of my shooting is within a 150 yards or so, and a .44 Mag or .357 Mag rifle would handle it.  I can't remember the last time I took a shot over 200 yards on a deer.  Of course, I live in KY and I don't hunt out West.  If I lived in Montana and could shoot 400 yds or more on a regular basis, then maybe I'd feel differently.

Rimfires are also starting to play a much bigger role in my shooting and hunting, and since KY allows air guns for small game now, I'm looking at those too.  All of them are TONS cheaper to shoot than shotgun, rifle, or pistol ammo.

I have pretty much determined that I've going to have a bolt action in 7.62x39 very shortly, as the ammo is still cheap and readily available, comparatively.  It'll do all I want out to 250 yards, which will be good enough for me, as I rarely have a shot that far.  It'll be semi-custom, as I want a bit longer and stouter barrel than any factory guns offer, but the savings on the ammo will more than offset the cost of the barrel.

I've really gotten bit by the muzzleloader bug in the past couple of years, and it's easy to find stuff really cheap after the season closes, so I stock up and save money.  I bought enough powder at the end of last season to get me through this year of targets and hunting, and I paid in some cases, 75% or more off the retail price of Triple Seven.

I can't see how some people even afford ammo today.  People making minimum wage, kids and new hunters, and just anyone else with a below average or average income (what's the average for a male nowadays, $37,000 or something?), even more so if you're living on one income, it would really strain them to buy a deer rifle, scope, and ammo.  Strain like skipping a mortgage payment or a car payment or something just to get the gear, or having to save for a year or more.  For most people, financially, it's just not worth it.

I know several guys that would love to hunt and shoot way more than they currently do, but they just can't/won't afford the ammo prices for centerfire rounds.

I make an above average living (close to six figures), and my wife works as well.   But with 3 kids, a mortgage (a used house, LOL), a car payment (a used mini van), and just the costs of living in general, food, gas, etc.  We're pretty tight with our money, and it shows with what we have and the stuff we can afford to do IF we want to, but I just can't see the point in spending so much money on what's essentially an item that's non-reusable. 

I mean, JEEZ, it would be cheaper to use a .22LR (brick of 500 for lets say $15) and five $5 bills for targets than to run two boxes of "premium" ammo though my 30-06.  I could shoot all day and still save money, using MONEY for targets!  And who in their right mind would want to use $5 bills or any other money for targets?

I feel very strongly that there will come a day (maybe sooner that we think) that hunting and shooting are going to return to being "rich people" sports, like they were generations ago, and perhaps similar to how it is in Europe.  The game will be on estates that charge very high fees for access (like they are cheap anyway today, what with license prices for out of state and such) and the cost of ammo and guns will just plain put them out of reach of the average Joe.

Offline charles p

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2008, 07:55:57 AM »
Been married for 35 years.  Been hearing how expensive my hunting and shooting is for 35 years.  Maybe I will outlive her.


Offline Swampman

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2008, 08:17:23 AM »
.45-70 ammo runs $29.95 a box here.  Walmart beats everyone's prices on ammo by about 25%.

Reloading is fun and can be pretty inexpensive.  Most of my equipment was free.

I mostly buy used rifles as there are no (new)cheap ones with wood stocks.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Bart Solo

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2008, 08:41:32 AM »
I have no idea why ammunition prices are rising faster than inflation.  I do know WalMart prices are still pretty reasonable.  I also know reloaded bullets are significantly cheaper than store bought. Reloading can be fun and it leads to some of the most interesting discussions.  See the threads below.  ;D


Offline Swampman

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2008, 08:47:39 AM »
The War on Terror (demand)& China buying up all the scrap metal they can find are 2 of the reasons ammo is high.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline jumpsteady

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2008, 08:54:18 AM »
I agree with you kyelkhunter3006. The cost of everything is way out of control. I fit into the lower than average income bracket that you were talking about, making roughly $ 33,000 a year. I have been married 15 months(wedding bills), a 7 month old daughter that was 5 weeks early( NICU and Hospital bills), a mortgage, and 2 car payments. But some how I always seem to find the money somewhere to go hunting. The deer I shot last year is how we made it through last winter. Just because it helped that much with the grocery bill. And yes everyones prices are out of control. You cant buy anything at a reasonable price anymore. I hate supporting walmart but they have the lowest prices on ammo so that is where I have been going. And up until last week i had been buying what little i could afford to keep reloading. But thanks to the mass hysteria from our new president-elect, you can't hardly find anyplace that has anything in stock. back order doesn't help me at all. Deer season opens in 3 weeks and I'm not sure if I'm going to make it this year. Guess i will have to bum money from somewhere to buy a license. oh well, that's the way the world turns
Charter Member, Sons of the American Legion, Post 421 Topeka, Kansas

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Offline mechanic

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2008, 11:08:38 AM »
Another factor in the cost is liability insurance.  The premiums have skyrocketed, and with the phony "lead scare" are apt to go higher.  When someone wins an unreasonable lawsuit, we all pay them.  When they lose, we pay the attorneys.

Ben
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Offline kyelkhunter3006

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2008, 12:39:15 PM »
Been married for 35 years.  Been hearing how expensive my hunting and shooting is for 35 years.  Maybe I will outlive her.



Ha ha, LOL.  Yeah, I had to hear that for a couple of years, then I said "Let's compare your spending at Kohl's Dept. Store to what I spent hunting and fishing this year?"  Yeah, I don't get too much grief anymore.   ;)

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2008, 06:03:35 PM »
See the ad above for a $399 Weatherby.  Stevens rifles can be had for under $300, and they shoot fine.  Earlier this year I bought a Savage 111 for $299 and a Remington M700 NIB with walnut stock for $425. 

I handload so ammo costs are not a great concern -although the costs are rising I can still build plinking ammo very inexpensively.  Hunting ammo runs me more because I use premium bullets where I can.

Hard economic times mean more good, used firearms are up for sale.  Lots of bargains to be had if you are willing to look for them.
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Offline buckfever 1

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2008, 05:34:39 AM »
My mother told me when I was young and starting to hunt in MN that hunting will become the sport of the rich just like it is in Europe.  One can still find a way to hunt for free but the cost of gear, license if out of State, and trucks and gas has made it tough.  A trip out west is a $1000 dollar deal with gas, lodging, lodging, out of state license and such.  I am sure as an older hunter who has most of his gear can find a way to hunt.  A new hunter may have to be a bow hunter or muzzle loader for a chance to have a good area to hunt.   Hunting was a rural thing in the past.  Farmers and guys from small towns in MN where you knew somebody you could hunt.  I can't blame a struggling farmer for charge to hunt on his land when he feeds the birds or deer. 

New young hunters have a tall hill to climb.  I expect the industry to shrink and slowly go down.  I really like my 17HMR inexpensive to shoot and fun.
In MN we have many lakes to fish with ready access, another option.  It is hard for me to see a sport I have so loved go to the wealthy but it is what it is.   Buckfever


Offline Bowjack

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2008, 06:09:31 AM »
The prices of out of state hunting are out of the question, the price of premiums ammo is getting too expensive to use, good hunting ground is hard to find, state land deer herds have been decimated, places where I used to hunt, fish and trap as a kid have been developed, prices of land have gone through the roof, prices of leasing good farm land is nearly as expensive now.  In addition, deer numbers in NY are down as the DEC gets less homeowner complaints and deer vehicle accidents when the heard is low.  Archers are all over state land (not bashing archers) as I am one myself, but after spending much time this year w/o a shot I am wondering if it is even worth continuing as hunting is truly becoming an expensive endeavor.

In another thread I asked a question regarding accurizing a rifle as I will not buy a new rifle, just trying to make the best of what I have.  I have a Savage 99 in .300 Savage, Win Model 70 in 30/06, a marlin .35 Rem. and for deer this battery is totally acceptable for hunting deer anywhere. 

I have always dreamed of an out west hunt, but for example with a Montana NR deer tag at $1200.00 and an elk tag at 1500 not including an outfitter, the likelihood of that happening is slim.

I can no longer justify the exorbitant expenses anymore.  Besides with all my expenditures, it is much cheaper to buy premium beef than if I amortized the price per pound of venison, not including time lost working and spent in the woods.

It is bad this year and my friends are starting to say and feel the same.  Hunting is becoming a huge financial burden on my family w/o much reward.  This is my 30th hunting season and probably my poorest in many ways.


Lastly, there are deer out there, but they are mostly found on private ground and "the spot" is now everything, but a good spot is very hard to come by these years.

I wish I could be more optimistic but these are some of my thoughts after spending much time and money hunting empty woods this year w/o any success so far. 

PS - I had bought a Kimber 300 WSM some time ago, and wish I didn't.  I have never shot it and don't think I will.  The price of ammo is extraordinary for premium fodder.  It was an impulsive buy for a gun that felt good in the arms.  In addition , I have heard accuracy problems with the Kimbers and their whippy barrels.  However, I think if I do get a new gun, it will be made from a trade-in on this gun. 

After reading many threads here I realize this bang zoom gun won't do much more for me than my trusty ole 30/06 except maybe beyond 300 yards and kick a heck of a lot more and waste too much money in ammo.  The ole reliable ho hum guns that are common may be the most useful and affordable. 

That's my rant, and I feel better now.


Offline mannyrock

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2008, 03:37:59 AM »

    Hmmmm.   The very sad fact of the matter is that in a short 50 years, the U.S. will probably have a population of 600 million people, and we will be Europe.   There will be little or no private land for the average person to hunt, the huge number of urban people will have forced Congress to pass laws to ban hunting on federal land (both BLM and national forest), there will be sweeping laws that greatly restict firearm ownershp (such as, you can only own one rifle, and must register all firearms, and must pass qualification tests, and must pay an annual "firearms tax"), and as a result, hunting will simply become "irrelevant" to 98% of the population.

    Did anyone ever think that foxhunting would be made illegal in all of England?  It has happened.

    Did anyone ever think that people living in the most rural areas of Canada would have to purchase a national permit in order to simply own a .303 Enfield rifle?  It has happened.

    Did anyone ever think that the entire continent of Australia would ban ownership of pump action shotguns?  It has happened.

    So, at that point, hunting will be something only for the eccentric rich, and most likely on "preserves" of 100 to 200 acres, just as in Europe.

    Yes, we hunters today will hang on to the sport for another 30 years or so, until it is just too much time, trouble, pain and expense.  Our children will go on a few hunts, most of them with us, but by the time they are middle aged, they will simply hang up their one rifle on the wall, along side their two deer mounts, and tell stories about it now and then. 

   And our grandchidren . . . will simply not care.  They will be happy playing their virtual reality computer games, and sitting around and getting fat.  Hunting will be dead.

   Reality sucks, but there it is.

Regards, Mannyrock

   


Offline Bart Solo

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2008, 04:09:50 AM »
That is a bleak world you live in Mannyrock. 

What do you base your 600,000,000 Americans in 50 years on?  Population in many first world countries is in decline. If we didn't have immigration ours would be falling too.

Mannyrock, there is only one person who can change the future for your children.  You are that person. You have to get your children outside.  If we all made sure our kids spend time outdoors, they will grow up loving hunting, fishing and camping, and they will make sure the future isn't some dark version of Blade Runner. 

Have you taken your kids outdoors lately?     

Offline Omaha-BeenGlockin

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2008, 06:33:29 AM »
Sheesh---take up reloading---your handloads will be better than any mass produced "premium" loads at far less cost.

Get a nice .22 for practice.

And take your kids shooting.



Just ran the numbers for my cost of reloading .270 Win---including sales tax.

Using virgin brass: Box of 20=$15.23
Box of 20 reusing the brass case=$8.38

Comparable load using the same bullet on the dealers shelf---Box of 20:
$29.99 + 7% sales tax=$32.09

As you can see---the savings add up quickly---more than half off even if I never reused a case----roughly 75% when reusing the case----that kind of savings covers the cost of press--scales--dies etc... in no time. I bought my stuff in the '80's---its more than paid for itself.

Offline Brithunter

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2008, 07:22:38 AM »
Well we will soon see if the Chinese buying all the scrap was the real reason as given for the costs rising. As it seems that the Chinese have stopped buying the scrap and it's building up in the yards with no one to buy it.

  And if no one wants it the price has just crashed and if the reason was true then the price of brass and ammo should also plummet  ;) how many of you can actually see that happening?

Offline mechanic

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2008, 11:22:47 AM »
Just had my dealer order up a tub of Varget and some bullets.  I can cast for my 45-70, and the 243's are not too bad storebought.  BeenGlockin is right.  The way to lower cost is lower demand.  If they are not selling store bought ammo, then Walmart will push them to lower the price....maybe.  In the meantime, powder will keep quite a while, lead is plentiful if you know where to look, and you have total control over the end product.


Ben
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Offline Explorer1

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2008, 05:47:26 PM »
Ok guys, lets be honest here.  How many of you are working for the same wage back when?  Price of ammo and components has gone up, but has it outpaced anything else?  I don't really know as I have not looked hard at this topic.  Did look at gas prices as they were killing us a short while back, the increase in that commodity had not keep up with the so-called cost of living.

Can we continue to afford it?  That is a key hope of the anti-gun crowd, especially those who want the 500% taxes on ammo!

Personally I will say a box of ammo when I started working cost me less of my time than that same box does today.  Yes, I make much more due to skill increases so that is not a clean 1 to 1 relationship but its a fact.

Tis a priority call.  Are you willing to pay to play?  The question is the same in ALL hobbies, be they auto racing or quilt making.  Just saying the numbers are getting bigger is a false basis for comparing the increases.

Offline Brithunter

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2008, 09:32:15 PM »
So what your saying is that the the prices have not "really jumped" in the last few months and that they really "Needed" to go up to bring them in line with inflation on everything else?  ::)


Prices here have been steadily climbing and the importers don't seem to have the words "Drop or Lower" in their vocabulary. I find myself in need to buy bullets and powder however the prices mean that it will be some months before I can get those supplies wanted the prices are now so high I will have to start either shooting the 22LR more or cutting back my range trips. Yes I am on a very low fixed income  :-[ and I need:-

Powders

IMR 4831
IMR 4064
Reloader 15
Varget


Bullets

6mm Hornady 87 Grn BTHP
6mm Hornady 100  SP
308  Hornady 130 SP
8mm Hornady 150 SP


cases

7x57
243

Then I will need some primers. Oh thi is depressing as to get acquire that list will at current prices take about 6 months  :'(

Offline Bart Solo

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2008, 12:19:18 AM »
Ok guys, lets be honest here.  How many of you are working for the same wage back when? 

Ok, lets be  honest. Statistically, the average person is working for about $2000 less per year than eight years ago.  The refusal of the current crowd to do a damn thing about declining wages is the reason Obama was elected. If American wages had kept pace with inflation Obama wouldn't have been nominated, let alone elected. 

We are in a severe recession. If you haven't noticed even the credit card companies are letting people go.  Citibank has laid off over 75,000 people this year alone--53,000 announced just yesterday.  The big three automakers might not survive to 2009--that is less than 6 weeks. They and their suppliers are about 10% of the economy.  If they go into bankruptcy all those suppliers, their employees, and millions of pensioners will be hit hard. A lot of Americans won't have Christmas.  My own business is struggling to survive the effects of the bankruptcy of a major contract partner.  We are working our asses off to make sure they don't take us down with them.  It is going to be a near run thing if we succeed. 

Will we come out of it? Sure. We always do,  but this downturn could be long and hard.  To emerge we are going to have to start building stuff again.  There are no quick fixes and finger pointing is pointless.

Offline mannyrock

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2008, 06:39:26 AM »
Ron,

   You are correct.  What we have seen in the past 12 years is the death of the lower middle class to mid-level middle class in America.  Hundreds of thousands of people who were just hanging on in the middle class range have fallen into the lower class to povery range.

    This is not the result of a plot by the upper middle class or the so-called evil rich.  Those folks are working their butts off too, more hours than ever. The loss of manufacturing jobs throughout the country, to countries like China and Mexico, has the most to do with it.  Skilled metal workers in China are paid 55 cents an hour, while skilled metal workers in the U.S. want (and need) $40 per hour.

   Hunker down and pray.

Mannyrock

Offline buckfever 1

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2008, 02:47:45 PM »
The bottom line is if you don't help a young person get started in hunting it probably isn't going to happen.  I sold a rifle to my nephew for about 1/2 what it was worth to help him out and I hunt with him some of the time.  He loves that rifle and takes great care of it.  It was better than sitting in the gun cabinet.  Once the young person gets the desire to learn to hunt the job is done.  Plus what a return a young person to share a sport, a bonus!  We either help them out or it will see hunting slowly end.  Buckfever

Offline Bowjack

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2008, 03:18:04 AM »
So is reloading is the answer for everyone (rhetorical question)? 

With the economy in shambles, retirements and investments accounts cut in half, prices of food and utilities skyrocketing, it all boils down to priorities.

Not trying to be argumentative, but the price of a .270 may be 8 something for for an experienced reloader with all the equipment (not including the time), but if I were to start reloading I would have to amortize the price of the equipment into the cost of the ammo.  Therefore, with the initial cost of the set-up, I am now near premium ammo prices if not way, way more, and you have to shoot enough to pay-off and justify that expenditure.  In addition, there is an investment in time like anything else.  For me it a "one of these days" hobby, just not now.  Time is another commodity that is in short supply too.

I have a good friend who shoots his 30/06 fed with Remington Corelokts and has shot moose, elk, several black bear, numerous pigs, and many many deer, and never more than one shot except on the moose for insurance.  He doesn't understand why I wouldn't just stick with the ole 30/06.  He spends more on his hunts and less on his equipment as that is more important to him.  BTW, he used his .243 on a hog and deer hunt and lost both and said he will never not use his 06 (I am not debating .243's potential).

Offline Brithunter

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2008, 03:55:18 AM »
Ahhhh reloading or Handloading as some prefer is an hobby all of it's own and usually it seems those that reload don't save money they shoot more  ;)

Now presses rarely wear out unless abused so as I did buy a used press. I brought a Lyman Spar T used which I still have then later when the oppertunity arose I picked up an RCBS Rockchucker which I am using at present. I also acquired a set of CH scales then later acquired a set of Lyman scales and I also picked up an RCBS Uniflow powder measure which is not set up at the moment. I picked up all this for about the cost of a new Rockchucker.

It's quite simple if I was restricted to just factory ammo I could not shoot a quarter of what I do now and would have to shoot the rifles for which Milsurp ammo is available. If you are only going to shoot and reload one cartridge then I would seriously consider the Lee Loader hand press. Oh yes you need a trimmer, the cheapest way to go is the Lee stem and cutter but I personally use the RCBS deburrer as I don't like the Lee on. And yes handloading takes a little time

Offline Omaha-BeenGlockin

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2008, 06:19:23 AM »
Do you sit your butt in front of the TV for a couple hours every night?? Or how about the game/nascar race on saturday??

Why not use that time to load up a box or two?

Just last night I primed 100 .223 cases and loaded 50---in start of a search for a good load in my new AR varminter. Had the radio on and the cat sitting at my feet----was kind of relaxing actually---you still have to pay attention to what you're doing.


I also stock up on a box of Walmart bulk pack .22's just about every paycheck---even at $14 for 500+ --its still a bargain and a lot of trigger time.

Offline HogFan

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2008, 07:08:18 AM »
Talking about the price of ammo, do you think it will fall soon. Fuel prices are down, and scrap metal is WAY down. I just read an article where a guy was hauling scrap cars and got $250-$300 a car in September. Early Nov, $25 a car. Yes, I know we are fighting a war on terror (I'm in the middle of it in Iraq right now), but I do think the prices will have to give sooner or later. No real justification for them to stay sky high. I have switched from premium loads to Rem. Cor-lokts, and I am stocking up when on sale and with mail in rebates. I hope my kids can afford to hunt when they are my age.

Offline kyelkhunter3006

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2008, 08:29:56 AM »
If the anti-gun people get those crazy taxes and regulations passed for ammunition for all handguns and certain rifles, you can bet that prices will definitely get much worse.

Offline Brithunter

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2008, 11:11:08 AM »
Well I popped into the gunshop this afternoon and checked the prices of Hornady 100 Grn SP's and 87 Grn BTHP's they have not gone down and they siad that they are in fact going up in price. the importers are now blaming the drop in the value of the pound. Eley have just announced that despite the price of lead dropping drastically the price of Eleyy ammnition wil not be coming down in price as they say the price of the plastics and other materials used have increased  ::) and they didn't pass this price increase along before.

They must think we just fell off a log or something.

Powder prices are now getting into the fanasty realms and I am low on powders now so it looks like I am going to have to cut back on shooting the expensive to load cartridges and shoot cheaper cartridges however petrol has dropped in price another 5p in the last week per litre and that's about $0.30 per gallon at current exchange rates.

Offline Bart Solo

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2008, 11:14:10 AM »
If the anti-gun people get those crazy taxes and regulations passed for ammunition for all handguns and certain rifles, you can bet that prices will definitely get much worse.

I read lots of stuff, but I am still trying to find any significant support for any crazy taxes and regulations related to ammunition.  I know there have been stray comments but I can find nothing organized.  Can you point me to the hundreds of congressmen and women or millions of people supporting such a proposal.  Please.

Just remember, our economy is in crisis.  Congress and the incoming Obama administration have lots of bigger fish to fry.  So far Obama has appointed a pretty centrist bunch.  Hard core liberals are bitching that he is too centrist.  I stand shoulder to shoulder with you when there is something to fight about, but so far I just haven't seen it from sources outside the gun community.  Be vigilant but don't borrow trouble.


Offline kyelkhunter3006

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Re: Can we continue to afford hunting and new guns and ammo?
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2008, 11:46:50 AM »
I don't know about other areas or states, but a bill was voted down in KY back in March on encoding ammo, regulation of certain types of firearms that use that ammo (handguns and "assault" rifles) and making manufacturers, wholesalers, retailers, and purchasers of the ammo/guns pay additional taxes on those items.  Supposedly, the bill may be re-introduced for another vote before the end of this year or early next year.

All involved (other than the retail purchaser) would also be required to log and keep records of the sale of the ammo including name, address, phone # of the wholesaler/retailer, and also the Driver's License # of the retail purchaser for 3 years from the date of the purchase.

I've contacted my state senator and the local State Representives and I've heard back from my Senator and one of the Reps.  Both are against the bill and have told me that personally.  One of the KY State reps also told another member that there IS federal legislation of the same type in progress and to contact our federal Senators and Reps as well.