What's the point ?

[superdown]

I am thinking of getting an Encore pro hunter BBL but i am not sure about the length . What's the point of it being 28 inches in length ? I understand that their are 22,24,26 inch BBL's for short , long and magnum rounds. I have read that anything over 16in for a 22Lr will start draining it's velocity . How long of a BBL until this starts happening to each class of cartridges. It's down to the 308win ,30-06sprng and the 300win.

[iiranger]

Long ago the long barrel gave a longer sight radius and easier accuracy. More optical leverage. With scopes that is long gone. Then there is raw weight. Heavier holds steadier when you are panting, excited, etc... And on the target range where the shooter shoots 5 at a time, a heavy barrel warms more slowly and changes less with the relatively less warming.

You make a valid point. .22 rimfire alledgedly burns out the powder in 16 to 18 inches of barrel. Jack O'Connor said 18 many years ago. Beyond that it varies with each bullet weight, each powder charge, each type of powder... If you want to consult a ballistics engineer... go for it. IN reality you are probably best suited by what closest "meets your needs." You want a pest rifle to shoot off bench or bags at great distance. Little heavier barrel is no big deal. You want to walk after dangerous game in thick brush... Nice, fast, short, handy carbine with a short light barrel... Up and bang...

Most manufacturers seem to think the .308 class is pretty well served by 18-22 inch barrels. Many, many '06s are made with 22 or 24 inch barrels. And the "magnums" get the longer 24 or 26 inch barrels. The longer barrel also moves the muzzle blast away from your ears... That's nice.

AND in a single shot with very little "action length" you can have more barrel length and a gun no longer than a bolt action with a much shorter barrel. Haven't evaluated the Encore with a 28 but suspect it will be about the length of a Mauser with a 24... So what is your need/pleasure? If I were going to take a .243 out for prairie dogs (200 rounds a day or more) the long heavy barrel would look good. .270's have been shot at pests. .30s are a bit big. But tramping around for deer or coyote or I'm gettin too old to like that option. luck.

[yooper77]

My longest barrel for my T/C Encore is the old standard blue 26" 209x50 barrel.

My other rifle barrels are tapered blue 24", 223 Remington and 243 Winchester.

I have handled the T/C Encore 28" pro-hunter, and I can honestly say I would cut it down to a usable length.

yooper77

[onesonek]

I am thinking of getting an Encore pro hunter BBL but i am not sure about the length . What's the point of it being 28 inches in length ? I understand that their are 22,24,26 inch BBL's for short , long and magnum rounds. I have read that anything over 16in for a 22Lr will start draining it's velocity . How long of a BBL until this starts happening to each class of cartridges. It's down to the 308win ,30-06sprng and the 300win.

Well. what you are talking about as iiranger briefly touched on, is the ER (expansion ratio).  Basically it's the measure of a round's efficiency, and deals with the case capacity, and bullet weight in regards to barrel length.  can't tell exactly when the point of no gain is without specific information. But,,, in general I figure once the ER reaches somewhere around 12 you see little gain in going longer. Honestly, an ER of 11 is getting right up there.
Now I going from memory so don't hold me to it. but a 7mm rem mag 26" with a 150 grain is about 5.7. The 30-06 with a 24" 150 gr runs about 7.5 and a 308 about 8.5 with 22". Then the 30-30 is around 10.5 with 20".  The slide rule shows little gain once you get over 11 as stated. So , 22" for the 30-30 is about maxed out. The 7mag on the other hand you could go to a 34"+ to reach the efficiency of the 308 winny.

Dave

[superdown]

In your opinion what would you say the most efficient cartridge available for the pro hunter barrel would be ? I allready have a couple of 308s and 325wsm and a 358win so i am wanting something i don't have also i just want a bbl to match my frame and stocks.

[Catfish]

Don`t hold me to it, but if I rember correctly the rule of thumb is about 50 fps. per 1 in. of barrel between 22 and 30 inches, and that can be brought down by useing different powders, faster burning in shorter barrels.
As for what round, I would eather go with some thing like a .375 for larger game, or some thing like a 6 mm or .25-06 for varmints for factory rounds. If your into wildcats the .22-243 Middle Stead or the .22-6mm will reach out there. One I considering for my next rifle is the .20 BR or the .20- 250.

[Davemuzz]

You know, I've read articles where a fellow (famous older gun guy....darn if I can remember his name right now) took an -06 and cut it down 1" at a time and crony-ed the same load from the gun after he chopped that inch off. I think when he got to 18" of barrel, that was the "magic" point where velocity began to drop significantly.

Then I've read articles where some short barrels will shoot the same load at higher velocities than long barrels. (Same caliber of gun). The reason has to do with chamber dimensions and throat length. I don't know if the explanations are "spot on" but the crony didn't lie.

IMHO, I think it comes down to what your going to hunt (if your going to use this for hunting....and I think that's the ultimate purpose). If 4" of barrel is going to drop your velocity by 200fps that's a consideration. But then, that's only a consideration if your shooting at game "on the outer reaches" of that caliber. So, if your shooting a 165 grain .308 and it's more likely that your going to shoot at game 400 yards away, then you probably want that extra 200fps velocity. But, if your most likely going to be shooting a maximum yardage of 200 yards, then that 200fps velocity doesn't mean so much.

Now, the shorter barrel is looking better since it's lighter, easier to maneuver in brush, and quicker to "bring to the shoulder."

And heck.....the deer isn't going to know if it was hit by the 165 grain bullet at 2700fps or 2500fps. It's just going to do a flip and drop like a sack of bricks.

Dave  

[superdown]

Your absolutely right. I do have 308 bbl for the encore and with the other rifles i have theres nothing i cant hunt in north America with confidence using these rifles . My main goal is just to get the best factory round for this bbl length hopefully with out any detrimental effects due to length. And if there is no negative effects due to length then i want the one that gains the most from it.

IMHO, I think it comes down to what your going to hunt (if your going to use this for hunting....and I think that's the ultimate purpose). If 4" of barrel is going to drop your velocity by 200fps that's a consideration. But then, that's only a consideration if your shooting at game "on the outer reaches" of that caliber. So, if your shooting a 165 grain .308 and it's more likely that your going to shoot at game 400 yards away, then you probably want that extra 200fps velocity. But, if your most likely going to be shooting a maximum yardage of 200 yards, then that 200fps velocity doesn't mean so much.

[onesonek]

 "My main goal is just to get the best factory round for this bbl length hopefully with out any detrimental effects due to length. And if there is no negative effects due to length then i want the one that gains the most from it."

With this in mind Superdown, then I would would look at those larger case volume to bore rounds. Sometimes refered to as "overbore",,,the .25-06, 7mm Rem mag. to a degree 300 mag and so on.

[Davemuzz]

My main goal is just to get the best factory round for this bbl length hopefully with out any detrimental effects due to length. And if there is no negative effects due to length then i want the one that gains the most from it.

Well, if your looking at the ProHunter barrels.....then I don't think anyone, Including T\C can give you any kind of "guarantee" that a shorter barrel will give you "all" the performance. Nor will T\C "guarantee" that a longer barrel will give you "all" the performance. Again, some short barrels will out perform in velocity, longer barrels.

So, if your looking for "a better mouse trap" so-to-speak, then I think you probably need to look at a custom maker such as MGM. Talk to those folks and they can probably machine you a tight chamber in a short barrel. Because it's my guess....and just a guess, that your looking for the shortest barrel possible that will still give you the maximum performance from a given "load". That being the case, a custom maker may be the only "sure-fire" way to resolve those demands.

MHO

Dave

[pastorp]

I read into this that he just wants a pro-hunter barrel, for what ever reason. Maybe he likes the looks or the length. But he wants a cartridge that can use that much barrel.

I believe I would get MGM or SSK to make me one in 257 weatherby mag. I don't think TC will chamber that caliber. If it has to be a TC barrel then a 25/06, 270, 280 or 300 win mag. Pick the bore diamiter and then get the biggest case TC chambers for that diamiter. Regards, Byron

[Davemuzz]

Byron,

Good point on the Prohunter "only" barrel. Just another option...he could contact MGM or SSK and ask them which Prohunter barrel to buy and they (MGM or SSK) could then re-chamber it to a caliber of "possibilities" from the barrel he buys, and get "more better" velocity that way.

Of course, Cha-Ching $$ is always a consideration here.

But....still an option.

Dave

[Birddog 1]

Thumper time 338-06......................

Nim

[Davemuzz]

Thumper time 338-06......................

Nim

Put the bullet in the boiler room of a whitetail, and the word "tracking" will disappear from your vocabulary.

Dave