Author Topic: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700  (Read 7764 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline rickt300

  • Trade Count: (13)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2937
Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« on: November 13, 2008, 05:18:47 AM »
I own rifles with both actions and I see some superior features the Mauser action has. My 35 Whelen is built on an action identical to Swampmans Interarms Mauser. The only thing I don't like about it is the safety does not lock the firing pin, just the trigger  like the M700. On my other M98 hunting rifles, the Buehler and Dayton Traister safeties do so. I also like the fact that with my Mausers I can unload the chamber by opening the action pulling the bolt back enough that I can push the cartridge down into the magazine, then move  the bolt forward a bit while holding the case down  so it rides over the case a bit, then remove fingers or thumb and close bolt. This instead of having to flip the case into my hand and then putting it back into the rifles magazine. I actually haven't found the Mauser's controlled round feeding to be any more reliable than the Remington's push feed. If both are set up properly they both work fine. I find the Remington trigger easily adjusted to being a fine hunting rifle trigger as are aftermarket triggers by Bold and Timney for the M98. The Interarms trigger is also easily adjusted to be a good hunting rifle trigger. As to accuracy it may not be a fair comparison but my Mausers barreled with high quality barrels often shoot better than my Remington rifles However my Present 7MM Remington magnum M700 BDL is a true tackdriver. Also building the Mausers from scratch allows me to finish with a rifle that has no bedding problems.
I have been identified as Anti-Federalist, I prefer Advocate for Anarchy.

Offline yooper77

  • Trade Count: (33)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1746
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2008, 05:29:02 AM »
Do you know about the Remington Model 798.™ The Model 98 Mauser Action Is Alive And, Well, Better Than Ever.
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_798/model_798.asp

yooper77

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2008, 06:14:56 AM »
I like both!  I believe the Remington 700 to be the most accurate production rifle you can buy.  I like the nostalgia of the Mauser.  If I were going to build dangerous game rifles I would choose the Mauser action, because pin point accuracy isn't necessary for dangerous game.

The workmanship of my Interarms is something to behold.  The metal that is below the wood is perfectly machined in every respect.  I did not see a trigger adjustment.  Can you help me with that?
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Badnews Bob

  • Trade Count: (34)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2963
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2008, 06:16:30 AM »
Mausers pretty much started them all, everyone else would be just trying to reinvent the wheel. Pros and cons to all but Mausers are hard to beat.  8)
Badnews Bob
AE-2 USN retired

Offline Brithunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2538
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2008, 06:36:30 AM »
Actually in Europe the Mauser never went away  ;) several companies continued with the Mauser 98 and until the fairly recent updating (as they call it) CZ made a lightly modified Mauser in the ZKK series. The 550 is basically a restyle to make it more pallatable to the US market. I don't know if Santa Barbra of Spain still makes the M98 but it certainly did do as did Zastave who I believe do still make them as it seems to be the source of the re-badged Remingtons.

Also I have found it none too difficult to clean up and adjust the std Mauser trigger as for safeties well I don't rely upon them as the only safety in located in the brain and a gun is always loaded  ;)

Ahhh swampman that's called quality, something which is highly regarded in Europe  ;)

Offline R.W.Dale

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2170
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2008, 08:14:13 AM »
I've owned bolt actions of all sorts from Winchesters to Rugers, Mausers to Savages and everything in between. One thing I have yet to find is ANY advantage in the Rem action over any other action offerings out there.

 As best I can tell the oft touted superiority of the rem 700 is purely a psychological phenomenon.

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2008, 08:24:11 AM »
Quote
As best I can tell the oft touted superiority of the rem 700 is purely a psychological phenomenon.

I can't say it's superior, I can only say it's more accurate.

If accuracy isn't the most important thing, the the other brands are going to suit you fine.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline R.W.Dale

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2170
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2008, 08:29:09 AM »
Quote
As best I can tell the oft touted superiority of the rem 700 is purely a psychological phenomenon.

I can't say it's superior, I can only say it's more accurate.

If accuracy isn't the most important thing, the the other brands are going to suit you fine.

I don't even think rem offers the most accuracy, How accurate is your most accurate Remington?  That's AVERAGE on 5 shot strings not one lucky 3 shot group

I can assure you that I have a 7.62x39 that'll out shoot it for 5 shot strings

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2008, 08:34:34 AM »
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Coyote Hunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2534
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2008, 09:44:35 AM »
Do you know about the Remington Model 798.™ The Model 98 Mauser Action Is Alive And, Well, Better Than Ever.
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_798/model_798.asp

yooper77


Certainly not "better than ever", IMHO.  The Remington M798's and M799's I've looked at would never cause me to part with my money.
Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline yooper77

  • Trade Count: (33)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1746
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2008, 09:58:22 AM »
Do you know about the Remington Model 798.™ The Model 98 Mauser Action Is Alive And, Well, Better Than Ever.
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_798/model_798.asp

yooper77


Certainly not "better than ever", IMHO.  The Remington M798's and M799's I've looked at would never cause me to part with my money.

Not my words, its on the Remington website.

I wish they chambered it in 35 Whelen.

yooper77

Offline john keyes

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 770
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2008, 10:01:51 AM »
I have to agree about the 798 or 799, I don't know which one I've seen and handled several times but I wouldn't even place it in the adequate category. Very disappointing.
Though taken from established manufacturers' sources and presumed to be safe please do not use any load that I have posted. Please reference Hogdon, Lyman, Speer and others as a source of data for your own use.

Offline R.W.Dale

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2170
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2008, 10:42:21 AM »
WOW! Swampy a link to a review of a $1500 remington that merely shoots OK

That'll show me ::)

I really like this part

Quote
The first three rounds went into .192" @ 100 yards! The next round I bolo'd because I was so exited about the way this was turning out. I should have gotten up, walked away and given it a minute. The fourth shot opened the group up with a flyer to .7 inches… but the fifth shot went right back into that oblong one-hole group, leaving those four shots at .192"! I was amazed.

These guys shoot groups like you do, in that they cherry pick the shots to count towards the group size

when you leave the remingtons to the deer hunters you can shoot 5shot groups like this group from my Stevens 200 that optics and all only cost about 1/2 of that 5R



I literally have a book full of these

Offline SHOOTALL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23836
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2008, 10:48:56 AM »
when you shut the bolt on a mauser it feels like a vault dood locking , on a M-700 like a car door !
I have a 2506 mod 700 that will shoot one hole groups when i do my part so i don't hate The mod. 700 . Just call it like i see it .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2008, 11:01:32 AM »
WOW! Swampy a link to a review of a $1500 remington that merely shoots OK

That'll show me ::)

I really like this part

Quote
The first three rounds went into .192" @ 100 yards! The next round I bolo'd because I was so exited about the way this was turning out. I should have gotten up, walked away and given it a minute. The fourth shot opened the group up with a flyer to .7 inches… but the fifth shot went right back into that oblong one-hole group, leaving those four shots at .192"! I was amazed.

These guys shoot groups like you do, in that they cherry pick the shots to count towards the group size

when you leave the remingtons to the deer hunters you can shoot 5shot groups like this group from my Stevens 200 that optics and all only cost about 1/2 of that 5R



I literally have a book full of these

Even a blind hog finds an acorn every once in awhile.  I can't imagine ever owning a Stevens 200 for any reason ....I'm glad you found one that shot well.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline R.W.Dale

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2170
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2008, 11:08:59 AM »
So how well do your remingtons shoot?

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2008, 11:10:34 AM »
One fluke piece of junk does not an accurate design make.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2008, 11:13:56 AM »
So how well do your remingtons shoot?

1/2 MOA is about normal for Model 700 deer rifles.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline R.W.Dale

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2170
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2008, 11:38:01 AM »
So how well do your remingtons shoot?

1/2 MOA is about normal for Model 700 deer rifles.

The proof is in the pudding, I don't think anyone here is prepared to take YOUR word on the size of your 5 shot 100yd groups. Whereas I have DOCUMENTATION, Three shot groups...well they're kinda like 3/5ths of a real group with training wheels attached

Quote
One fluke piece of junk does not an accurate design make.

and one lucky 3/4" group does not sub MOA a rifle make

 Saying that only Remington's are accurate is as asinine as saying only Chevy trucks can haul a refrigerator.

Quote
1/2 MOA is about normal for Model 700 deer rifles.

a certain George Straight song comes to mind ;D


Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2008, 11:44:23 AM »
Other rifles can be accurate.  My point being for those who want an unaltered factory rifle that will shoot tiny groups with factory ammo, the Remington is the logical choice.

"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline R.W.Dale

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2170
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2008, 11:51:29 AM »
Quote
My point being for those who want an unaltered factory rifle that will shoot tiny groups with factory ammo, the Remington Savage, Tikka  or CZ is the logical choice.

There I fixed that for ya!

One plus to Remington however is they have the NASCAR Dale Earnhardt commemorative rifle market completely covered like no other manufacturer.




Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2008, 11:56:21 AM »
Those brands will shoot well with some tinkering, and the right reloads.  Many brands will shoot well with some tinkering and the right reloads.  Nothing wrong with that.  Some folks like to fix their rifle before they shoot it.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline R.W.Dale

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2170
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2008, 12:11:51 PM »
Those brands will shoot well with some tinkering, and the right reloads.  Many brands will shoot well with some tinkering and the right reloads.  Nothing wrong with that.  Some folks like to fix their rifle before they shoot it.

Care to back that OPINION up with fats ::)


no of course not, and this ties into my original statement that any advantage Remington holds over other manufacturers is simply a combination of clever marketing and blind faith.

 Back to the original topic a well exicued Mauser sporter is a thing of beauty and craftsmanship form and refinement. A rem700 is simply a piece of pipe machined into an action. And whilst most other rifles are manufactured in this manner only rem700 aficionados try to tout the craftsmanship of their sewer pipe actions vs everyone elses

Offline kyelkhunter3006

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (20)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1576
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2008, 01:11:14 PM »
So how well do your remingtons shoot?

1/2 MOA is about normal for Model 700 deer rifles.

Oh come on, we ALL know better than that.  If that was the "normal" group out of a 700, why in the hell would there be so many gunsmiths that specialize in "accurizing" Rem. 700 rifles, and they still don't give an accuracy guarantee?   ::) 

Even the father of custom Rem. 700 rifles, Kenny Jarrett, has to WORK to get his $8000 rifles to shoot groups like that consistently.  That includes weighing cases and bullets, checking each case and bullet for concentricity, checking each case for volume, and doing several other things that 99% of handloaders don't even think of.

The hard facts are that if you have ANY brand of factory gun (un-tuned) that will shoot consistent 1" groups with ANY factory load, you've got a gem of a rifle. Same thing with any un-tuned factory gun that will consistently shoot groups of less than 1" with handloads.

I had 12 Rem. 700 rifles, and I'll admit, all of them would group less than 2" consistently (except one, and it was an LTR .308) with factory ammo, un-tuned, out of the box.  Most would do close to 1"-1.25" with their favorite loads.  I've had exactly 2 that would shoot 1" groups or less consistently with factory ammo, un-tuned, out of the box.

That's pretty much consistent with all brands that I've tried, Ruger, Winchester, Savage, CZ, Howa, various Mauser sporters, etc. 

The two most accurate factory rifles that I've had were a Ruger 1A in 7x57 (5/8" 3 shot groups with Remington 140gr consistently) and a Winchester Model 70 Ranger in 30-06 (1/2" 3 shot groups with Winchester 180gr Failsafe factory loads).  Both were un-tuned, out of the box.  Sold the Ruger to help make a down payment on our first home, and sold the Winchester to a guy that offered me ALOT more money than I had invested in it, after he saw it shoot.

Remington's average accuracy is no better than any other factory bolt action rifle, out of the box.  Period.

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2008, 01:12:51 PM »
Tell it to the Marines(& the Seals, and the Army Spec. Ops, and nearly every police department in the world.)
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline R.W.Dale

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2170
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2008, 01:20:50 PM »
Quote
Tell it to the Marines(& the Seals, and the Army Spec. Ops, and nearly every police department in the world.)

Two words

Lowest Bidder

lets see the marines wish they had the money to replace the m24

the army is replacing it

and most police departments world wide probably don't even know what a rem700 is

Kellyhunter is on the right track, Nowdays NOBODY makes a crappy bolt action rifle (except for the 710/770) You pretty much have an equal chance of getting a real sub MOA performer with any of them.

Half MOA on the other hand is more like hitting the lottery

Offline kyelkhunter3006

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (20)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1576
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2008, 01:27:59 PM »
The Marines don't use factory rifles, they use Remington recievers to build custom rifles for the Snipers and Scouts.  The Army M24 Sniper system isn't a "factory" rifle either, it's built in the Remington Custom Shop using select barrels and HS Stocks.  

And nearly every military/police dept in the world doesn't use the 700, it's just popular in the U.S.   The only countries that use the M24/M40 rifles in their military are the U.S., Japan, Indonesia (one of 4 different brands issued), and Israel.  Most other countries use the L96A1 (imported to the US as Accuracy International), Steyr, SIG, Sako, Galil, SVD's and H&K.

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2008, 01:29:10 PM »
They just replaced it with the M24A3 ;D

The Model 700 sets the accuracy standard by which all other's are measured.

The Masuer has several good features and I like them.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline R.W.Dale

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2170
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2008, 01:35:06 PM »
They just replaced it with the M24A3 ;D

The Model 700 sets the accuracy standard by which all other's are measured.

The Masuer has several good features and I like them.

LOL as usual swampy your info is a day late and a dollar short

Noooooooo it's being replaced with the XM110 semi-automatic sniper system.

Basically a big AR/M16 variant  ;D

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2008, 01:53:47 PM »
The XM110 isn't replacing the Remington.  It's for a different application.  They just bought the Remingtons.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~