Mauser 98 Vs. Remington 700

[kyelkhunter3006]

Wouldn't be the first time the Army changed it's mind after spending a lot of taxpayer money.    

BTW, the M24A3 is chambered in .338 Lapua Magnum.  It's a special purpose rifle for when they need more than the .308 can offer.  It's not replacing the M24 standard rifle, that's what the XM110 is going to do.

[Badnews Bob]

Those m24s are totally and completely rebuilt before they ever go into the field, not a real good example. You can't buy one of those any way. The Finns and Sweads are some of the best snipers in the world,(yes they are better than our Marines) and they don't use Remingtons.

[Brithunter]

  He.... Hee I like this it gave me a good laugh  .

No I can only report my experience and what I actually see. On our range which is used by several clubs along with the County police for training I think I have seen one or two Remingtons and we have a crowd who are Sniper rifle nuts. They have in modern models the Sako TRG's mainly but there are a couple of others like the RPA Rangemaster, Tikka T3 Tactical and I saw a CZ tactical 550. In the older models there are Mosin Snipers and No4 T's and an Enfield Enforcer. No one has yet that I have seen brought an AI as those are expensive and hard to come by. The AI (Accuracy International) AW rifle uses cut rifled hand lapped "Border Barrels" and their own design action and stock. Several Armies round the world have adopted it as their issue Sniper rifle and they did or possibly still do make a single shot target rifle which was called the Palma Master. I did get to shoot one of those and a very accurate rifle it was too.

Now smapman there is a company over here in the UK which sells Remington based rifles, they are called Riflecraft and they take a 700 and re-build it to make an accurate rifle. Sometimes this is achieved with the Remington barrel but a lot of the time this is replaced as is the cheap plastic stock. I spoke to the Guvnor at Rifle craft about re-doing the bedding and regulating a rifle of mine but he would only consider free floating the barrel and as it was a P-H 1200 Super with a fairly light barrel which hates floating (found that out the hard way  ) we left it at that and I took the work elsewhere. Riflecraft inspect the bore with a magnifying bore scope and the throat before they do any work on any rifle brought to them or by them. Sometime all it needs it the barrel cut back so that the chamber can be re-reamed properly but other time the barrel has other flaws that requires replacement as they guarentee their accuracy to 1/2 MOA I seem to recall. But take a look for yourself here is their website:-

http://www.riflecraft.co.uk/

 I wonder why they would go to all that trouble if Remington was sooooooooooooo good right out of the box.

[Bart Solo]

 I wonder why they would go to all that trouble if Remington was sooooooooooooo good right out of the box.

Here is how riflecraft answers your question on their website.

"Factory rifles are mass-produced to understandably wide tolerances. Tightening those tolerances leads to tighter groups. Synthetic Bedding, Re-Crowning and Trigger Tuning usually does the trick. Bring your factory rifle up to it's full potential."

They are in the business of tuning factory rifles. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[rickt300]

I normally don't even shoot a rifle until I have inspected it's bedding and adjusted it's trigger at least. In fact I often buy factory rifles just for a starting point in a semi custom rifle. My M700 in 7RM is a good case in point. It was made in 1971 and had seen some use though the barrel is in like new condition. I immediatly took the rifle apart, adjusted the trigger, refinished and rebedded the stock and then took it to the range. I normally shoot three shot groups with my hunting rifles but sometimes if I want fireformed brass I might take my time to keep barrel heating to a minimum and shoot a whole box of shells into a group. I had picked up two boxes of Federal Blue Box 150 grain at the local Wally. I got it on the paper and sighted in with the first box, went to another target and fired the first three shots into a group of less than 1/2 inch C to C. I put the rest of that box of shells into the same group which ended up a hair over 1 inch.  I reloaded the brass using 64.0 grains of Reloder 22 and the 160 grain Nosler Partitions and went back to the range. First group needed 3 clicks down to get it 3 inches high at 100 yards and the second group went into 3/4 inch for three shots. I was done now. If I were completely logical I would sell my other rifles as this one can do anything I need as a hunting tool. I have had other Remingtons that shot well, mostly various 243's and one 270.  My Mausers after getting all the goodies like fast lock time springs, triggers reworked or replaced, quality barrels, bedded into stocks properly and good loads worked up will often shoot just as well as the M700 7RM mentioned above.  However a factory rifle out of the box will be doing well if it averages 1 1/2 inch groups. I sure don't expect much more than that from a slapped together rifle from any factory.

[SHOOTALL]

IF the people who build rifles won't guarantee a certian group size then they know they have some with poor quality going out the door . It makes no difference if they make 10 a year or 10000 . If the off the shelf 700 was so great why would Remington have the custom shop ? ( yess i have been there ) .

[Brithunter]

Hi there,

If I were completely logical I would sell my other rifles as this one can do anything I need as a hunting tool.

Errr when has logic ever had anything to do with buying a rifle? 

                                                                                    

[Swampman]

If the off the shelf 700 was so great why would Remington have the custom shop ?

To make them pretty....

A Walmart bought Remington 700SPS in .308 Winchester will frequently shoot 1/2 MOA and into the same group with both Remington 150 & 180 grain Core-Lokts right out of the box.  The Model 700 is the most accurate and best selling centerfire bolt action rifle in the world.

If you like to tinker, other brands can be made ito some great shooters.

[R.W.Dale]

A Walmart bought Remington 700SPS in .308 Winchester will frequently shoot 1/2 MOA and into the same group with both Remington 150 & 180 grain Core-Lokts right out of the box.  The Model 700 is the most accurate and best selling centerfire bolt action rifle in the world.

.
 Show me a wally world 308 SPS Rem700 that'll print 1/2 inch 5shot 100 groups with cheap-O remington ammo on an average basis.


 Anyone notice how Swampys claims get more and more outlandish.





 you guys know what the biggest difference in a 1 MOA rifle vs a 1/2MOA gun is.


About $1000

[kyelkhunter3006]

The heck with a Wally World rifle (which are the same as any other), show me ANY Remington factory rifle that'll do it.   

"Frequently" is definitely not the same as "consistently".  I have a Remingtonn 7400 that will "frequently" shoot less than 1" with Hornady 150gr SST loads.  Ahh, that's very fine, is it not?   Of course, it's a Remington!   

It will also "frequently" shoot 2" groups with that same load.  Oh, but, well, that's not so very fine.....BUT like I said "It's a Remington!"   

[NAM70]

Here's some pics of groups that I shot with my latest 700 when it was bone stock brand new. The groups are 5 shot at 100 yds. The pennies are also shot at 100 yds which I do on a regualr basis. Since these pictures were taken I have floated the barrel and lightened the trigger somewhat. The gun has produced some very nice groups. I'm done paper punching for the season but next spring I'll be sure to take pics always.

[Swampman]

Typical Remington factory accuracy.

[kyelkhunter3006]

 .........I"m sure that it's always sunny with a blue sky and nice fluffy clouds in your world too....and the deer and other animals prance across the pastures just waiting to be shot with the only brand of rifle that's in your hands.....

[Swampman]

If you know anything about guns, you know I'm right.  Your just stirring the pot.

[kyelkhunter3006]

HA, that's funny.  There's about 50 people (at least) on here that know that there IS a person that stirring the pot, but it ain't me!   

[R.W.Dale]

Typical Remington factory accuracy

"One fluke piece of junk does not an accurate design make."

 

[kyelkhunter3006]

 

[Swampman]

"One fluke piece of junk does not an accurate design make."

But you see this isn't a fluke.  It's hard to find a Remington 700 that won't shoot this good or better.

[R.W.Dale]

But you see this isn't a fluke.  It's hard to find a Remington 700 that won't shoot this good or better.

It's also not hard to find a Mossberg,Savage,Howa,Tikka,CZ,Ruger,TC,S&W or Marlin that'll shoot that good or better either.

Remington is NOT the only game in town in terms of accurate rifles, Hence my comment about Remington's superiority being a purely psychological phenomenon. I've seen it dozens of times. Some hick buys his first rem 700 and finally manages to shoot a sub 1" group and then from that point on ONLY Remington rifles are accurate and everyone else's products are junk.

Sorta like the Harley Davidson fad

[Swampman]

It's also not hard to find a Mossberg,Savage,Howa,Tikka,CZ,Ruger,TC,S&W or Marlin that'll shoot that good or better either.

After a good smith get through with them.

everyone else's products are junk.

Not junk, just works in progress.

I ride a Harley and have for years.....is there another brand?

[R.W.Dale]

It's also not hard to find a Mossberg,Savage,Howa,Tikka,CZ,Ruger,TC,S&W or Marlin that'll shoot that good or better either.

everyone else's products are junk.

Not junk, just works in progress.

I ride a Harley and have for years.....is there another brand?

You brainwash rather easily don't you. Somehow I expected as much.

After a good smith get through with them.

More useless baseless opinion, all you do is reinforce my assertion that it's all in ya'lls heads. Take a look inside a gunsmith's safe sometime easily 3 out of 4 bolt guns contained therein will be remington700's

My rifle will outshoot yours and a gunsmith hasn't laid a finger on it

[Coyote Hunter]

It's also not hard to find a Mossberg,Savage,Howa,Tikka,CZ,Ruger,TC,S&W or Marlin that'll shoot that good or better either.

After a good smith get through with them.

everyone else's products are junk.

Not junk, just works in progress.

I ride a Harley and have for years.....is there another brand?

Here's a quiz - Which of these groups was shot with a Remington and which were shot with "junk"?

(Hint - none of the rifles used have ever been to a gunsmith.)

[john keyes]

Swampman, I have shot 3 hole touching groups with:
savage 99 .308
marlin 45/70
marlin 444P
two different 700's
one ruger 77 .30-06
marlin 1894P (.44 mag)
and many more I'm sure.

No physical alterations of any kind. And the marlins have the worst triggers known to man.  All rifles equipped as shipped from the factory.
However I did use handloads in all, but they were all ARBITRARY LOADS ie: lets try some of this powder, in between the min and max load.
And, I'm a lousy shot.
I would venture that most rifles shoot better than the people shooting them.

[Brithunter]

"One fluke piece of junk does not an accurate design make."

But you see this isn't a fluke.  It's hard to find a Remington 700 that won't shoot this good or better.

Hmmm I believe that this has been  mentioned on here before but at the local gunshop I use there is an arguement going on between father and sone. The son wants to keep trying to sell Remingtons whilst the father is all for telling to importers to shove their rubbish where the sun don't shine. This was after ordering in and then selling to a customer one of the new super dooper plastic stocked SPS? 700's in 223 that could not group ANY factory ammo inside 3" at 60 paces so it went back and they sent a replacement and that was worse  the customer was understandibly upset seeing as how he has laid out around $1500 US for this piece of junk so they refunded him and I believe he brought a Sako or Tikka.

   This was the final straw as far as Colin was concerned as they have had problems with other Remingtons but for some reason the son wishes to continue selling them so one wonders if the importers have offered him something? Not sure how the arguement is going but I did notice that the rack space where the Rems stood now is filled with Howa's and the only Remington I saw was a lonely 710/770 hidden in the corner. I suppose the importer has refused to take it back and who can blame tham?

[R.W.Dale]

Rems stood now is filled with Howa's and the only Remington I saw was a lonely 710/770 hidden in the corner. I suppose the importer has refused to take it back and who can blame tham?

I've owned a few Howa/Vanguards in the past that were fine rifles indeed, in fact I've gone so far as to say that howa makes a better remington 700 than remington does. At a better price to boot.

remember the howa1500 is a rem700 clone

[mjbgalt]

actually the howa is BETTER than a 700 clone, it has a flat-bottomed all steel receiver, integral recoil lug, better trigger, smoother action, and there is no cheap "ADL" type model, they all have a floorplate and 3-position safety, where one can lock the bolt if one wants to.

the barrels on howas seem very well made, i have never had a problem with copper.

the bolt handle is part of the one-piece bolt, no soldering here.

so not quite a clone...better.

-Matt

[kyelkhunter3006]

Let's have an "Amen!" on that one.

[Sweet 6.5]

It's also not hard to find a Mossberg,Savage,Howa,Tikka,CZ,Ruger,TC,S&W or Marlin that'll shoot that good or better either.

After a good smith get through with them.

everyone else's products are junk.

Not junk, just works in progress.

I ride a Harley and have for years.....is there another brand?

Hi
With how many of these other products have you owned or actually shot with?

[kyelkhunter3006]

As far as Swampy is concerned, there's no other rifle company around but Remington.  LOL.  Although he did just buy an Interarms Mauser sporter in .270 (which is a totally inadequate deer caliber, but that's another story).   

[Skunk]

actually the howa is BETTER than a 700 clone, it has a flat-bottomed all steel receiver, integral recoil lug, better trigger, smoother action, and there is no cheap "ADL" type model, they all have a floorplate and 3-position safety, where one can lock the bolt if one wants to.

the barrels on howas seem very well made, i have never had a problem with copper.

the bolt handle is part of the one-piece bolt, no soldering here.

so not quite a clone...better.

-Matt

Another great feature about the Howas is that you can purchase just the barreled action at a very, very reasonable price and mount it in the stock of your choice. Howa has a good thing going and from everything I've seen, they are an excellent product.