204 for deer?

[rickt300]

I have one in a Contender Carbine. It is very accurate, destructive beyond any reason on large varmints and it has a good bit of energy to dispense. I can't say it wouldn't do for deer if there was a proper bullet made for it but in my opinion it is a varmint only cartridge with the bullets available for it. You could load a 34 grain Varmint Extreme bullet backwards and push it to 3600 fps I suppose to get some penetration but even then the bullet might disentigrate on contact.

[Kmrere42]

Hi rickt300,



I thought that a 223 was pushin the limit,   I would think that in an emergency, it would be a head shot only proposition.  I do not know how the physics of the bullet would work.  Either the bullet would fragment uselessly or be too hard to expand except in a very narrow velocity range.

Deer bullets in the .224 calibers are around 60gr. and they can penetrate.  I guess if you can get .204 bullets in the 50 - 60gr weights then it might work but I am not sure of the results.



Paul

[DalesCarpentry]

The 204 was never meant to be a deer round period. Dale

[alsaqr]

It would be illegal to hunt deer with a .204 in the vast majority of states. 

[kevthebassman]

I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work in a pinch if you waited for a perfect broadside shot.  .204 is strong medicine for even the largest coyotes, and deer are NOT tougher than coyotes.

If it's legal, try it.  I've got a .17 Remington that I've been thinking about trying on a doe during the antlerless season.

[HL]

I agree with Dale, the 204 was meant to be a varmint round and should stay that way.

[yooper77]

I my opinion any 22 caliber or smaller center fire rifle cartridge was intended for varmint or small game.

22 Varminter (aka 22-250 Remington)

Please select a cartridge of proper size for big game hunting.

yooper77

[oldandslow]

Of course it will kill a deer. Sometimes. It will wound a lot too, probably more than it kills cleanly. I won't go into the ethics of hunting with an inappropiate caliber.

[jcn59]

Confine your "killing experiments" to your own house.  Don't experiment on God's poor creatures.  Where are your ethics, man?

[kevthebassman]

Nothing unethical in mind.  I have absolute confidence in the .17 Rem's ability (with proper bullets, in this case 25 grain Bergers) to punch a hole in a deer's vitals.  I've seen what it can do to coyotes.  I have a big elevated shooting house, and does will come out into the bean field and graze 40 yards away for hours.  I'll have plenty of time to pick my shot.

As for "God's poor creatures," they're thick as flies where I hunt, which is a cornfield and woodlot in a suburban riverbottom area.  The farmer regards them as pests, and his rules are somewhere along the lines of "if it's brown, it's down." (although he doesn't mind us passing on small bucks... he likes to watch 'em grow)  He is the one who lets me hunt there, so I follow his rules.  If deer were not so plentiful, I would probably have a different attitude, but my freezer already has two in it, and rifle season hasn't even started yet.  I'll put one more in, then donate the rest to the food pantry.

[yooper77]

Nothing unethical in mind.  I have absolute confidence in the .17 Rem's ability (with proper bullets, in this case 25 grain Bergers) to punch a hole in a deer's vitals.  I've seen what it can do to coyotes.  I have a big elevated shooting house, and does will come out into the bean field and graze 40 yards away for hours.  I'll have plenty of time to pick my shot.

As for "God's poor creatures," they're thick as flies where I hunt, which is a cornfield and woodlot in a suburban riverbottom area.  The farmer regards them as pests, and his rules are somewhere along the lines of "if it's brown, it's down." (although he doesn't mind us passing on small bucks... he likes to watch 'em grow)  He is the one who lets me hunt there, so I follow his rules.  If deer were not so plentiful, I would probably have a different attitude, but my freezer already has two in it, and rifle season hasn't even started yet.  I'll put one more in, then donate the rest to the food pantry.

Ethics should be the first thing considered when I come to harvesting animals.

So if they are thick as flies its OK to shoot and hope?  Very troubled statement.
-22 caliber centerfire rifle cartridges are bad enough, hopefully all states will find anything small illegal.

Just to let you know I heard the most food pantries aren't accepting deer shot with firearms, only arrows.
-People are afraid of lead poisoning, which I think is ridiculous.

yooper77

[skb2706]

Seems to never be a shortage of guys trying to push the envelope of just how small you can go. I guess I'm never in much of a 'pinch' when it comes to hunting. I either take what I know has been proven to work by generations of hunters before me or I wouldn't go. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

The assumption that deer are no less difficult to kill than coyotes has to have been made by someone who has yet to see a big deer.

[LaOtto222]

There are more than just lead bullets out there. There are solid copper ones for deer rifles and for shot gun slugs. there are the Barnes Varmint grenades that do not have any lead in them, and there will be more. Since Kalifornia passed their no lead laws, there will be more.

As for the 204 for deer. I agree it was intended for varmints, so was the 22-250. As pointed out before the 22-250 was know for a long time as  the 22 varminter. The 22-250 was considered a premier varmint gun. The 223 was invented to kill people - not for varminting. The biggest draw back of the 204, is there is not a single bullet I can think of that is suitable for shooting deer, let alone be big enough caliber wise. I would leave the 204 home. If you are strapped for money - a 12 gauge shot gun with slugs is much more suitable. You can get them for around $100 for new single shot or $200 for a good used pump gun and $5 will get you 5 shells. You may have to hunt a little to get with in range, but that isn't all bad either. if you just want to say you killed a deer with a .204, then why not a 22 rim fire? it will kill a deer too.

[Grumulkin]

I think Hornady's 45 gr. Spire Point would work OK for deer within 100 to 150 yards if you picked your shot well.  I've never tried it but may at some time.

[charles p]

A friend in my group shot a deer in the neck with his and it bawled in agony until he could finish it off.  I think you owe it to the animal to use more gun than a 204.  It's not legal in NC where I hunt.

[LONGTOM]

It's not legal in VA either.
With that being said I will state that a close range shot with one of the better bullets to the base of the ear from a broad side shot will kill a deer before it hits the ground.

I wouldn't use anything smaller than a 243 myself but that doesn't mean a 204 won't do it.
A very old friend of mine who is a retired game warden from WVA says that more deer are killed illegally with a 22 magnum than any other caliber.
That still doesn't make either one a deer caliber though.

From what I have read here it is pretty plain that he is intent on trying it no matter what we say.


LONGTOM

[billy_56081]

The biggest drawback to using it would be that ALL the bullets constucted for it are varmint bullets made for explosive expansion, and limited pentration.

[kevthebassman]

Ethics should be the first thing considered when I come to harvesting animals.

So if they are thick as flies its OK to shoot and hope?  Very troubled statement.
-22 caliber centerfire rifle cartridges are bad enough, hopefully all states will find anything small illegal.

Just to let you know I heard the most food pantries aren't accepting deer shot with firearms, only arrows.
-People are afraid of lead poisoning, which I think is ridiculous.

yooper77

It won't be "shoot and hope."  It's putting a small, fast, solidly constructed bullet precisely where it is needed.  I have no problem passing on anything but a perfect shot, especially on a doe. 

Back when the .22 Swift came out, it was touted as the ultimate big game cartridge.  Now, we know that is not true, but .22 centerfires have been killing deer for a long time now.  The point is, a small, fast bullet placed well will kill.

I haven't made up mind to do it just yet.... I've got an arsenal of guns suitable for killing deer.

And I have heard about some pantries doing that.  None in my area though, as far as I know.

[ripmyfly]

Any centerfire rifle is legal in Tennessee. Last year I killed 3 does w/ my Encore 204 w/ Virgin Valley Barrel. All three were around 70 yards & one 32 grain VMax Bullet in the ear they never even twitched. Is it a caliper for the average hunter... NO! Will it ethically kill deer in the hands of a shooter.... YES!

My 1 Cent

[LaOtto222]

I do not think there is a bullet made for the 204 that will take a deer reliably with a body shot. The bullets are just too lightly constructed. Being close would only make it worse, because the velocity would surely make the bullet blow up even quicker. I would think with a body shot it would work better at extended ranges. The trouble with that is the chance for error is greater, when error means the difference between a dead deer and a wounded deer. I read some where that a guy was shooting elk with a 17 Remington - all head shots. You have got to be kidding me. I do believe that a 22 LR will take a deer if shot in the head and range is limited to 50 yards or less. I think I would trust a 22 LR more than a 204 to do that job. If a 204 does not hit a hole in the scull, it may blow up with out penetrating, a 22 LR will punch through a scull if the angle is sharp enough and you are close enough. There are a lot of if's, just too many to humanely take deer.

I too have heard that the favorite round for poachers is the 22 rim fire Magnum. Just enough power to to get the job done with out making a lot of noise. Poachers are not known for their ethics. If they wound one, there will be another along to try it on. They shine deer and walk right up on them to point blank range and put it between the eyes. Just because it can be done, does not mean it should be done.

I can't set here at my computer and stop you from doing anything you want. I just can't think for the life of me why any one would attempt to hunt deer with a 204 knowing the bullets are questionable to get the job done and it will take a perfect shot to do it. Bragging rights is the only think I can think of. IMHO that does not say much about hunting ethics. Please do not consider a 204 for shooting deer, save it for the varmints that it was intended for.

Good Shooting and Good luck

[yooper77]

Ethics should be the first thing considered when I come to harvesting animals.

So if they are thick as flies its OK to shoot and hope?  Very troubled statement.
-22 caliber centerfire rifle cartridges are bad enough, hopefully all states will find anything small illegal.

Just to let you know I heard the most food pantries aren't accepting deer shot with firearms, only arrows.
-People are afraid of lead poisoning, which I think is ridiculous.

yooper77

It won't be "shoot and hope."  It's putting a small, fast, solidly constructed bullet precisely where it is needed.  I have no problem passing on anything but a perfect shot, especially on a doe. 

Back when the .22 Swift came out, it was touted as the ultimate big game cartridge.  Now, we know that is not true, but .22 centerfires have been killing deer for a long time now.  The point is, a small, fast bullet placed well will kill.

I haven't made up mind to do it just yet.... I've got an arsenal of guns suitable for killing deer.

And I have heard about some pantries doing that.  None in my area though, as far as I know.

I never heard the 220 Swift as a ultimate big game cartridge, unless that game wears a coyote's coat.

I don't believe there are any well contrusted .172 to .204 caliber bullets actually designed and created for big game hunting.

Its unfortunate to hear that some states allow ANY centerfire rifle cartridges for big game hunting.
-In both states that I hunt only allow 22 caliber rifle cartridges for big game hunting, and no one in our party would ever consider carrying one.

yooper77

[navylawdog]

First off I have to say that I don't agree with the logic of shooting a deer with a .204 but on the other hand you have to be a bit more optimistic about the whole thing. It is a fact that deer in some states just aren't very big. I mean if you come from a state where deer are big then you would think that the whole idea is just horrible but if you are from say Florida where they are the size of a very large dog then why not? Don't quote me on this but I have heard that up here in Maine a .22 mag is legal. I know that the deer up here are a whole lot smaller than back home in Kansas. Up here 200 pounds is a big buck deer but back home it was just an average doe and you didn't even call your friends up and tell them about it. So in some circumstances maybe it would be okay it just depends on the size of your deer where you live.

Navylawdog

[kevthebassman]

I never heard the 220 Swift as a ultimate big game cartridge, unless that game wears a coyote's coat.

P. O. Ackley was a big fan of the round and thought it was perfect for deer sized game.

I don't believe there are any well contrusted .172 to .204 caliber bullets actually designed and created for big game hunting.

That, is probably right.  I haven't heard of any intended specifically for big game.  Berger does makes some very solid bullets that have controlled expansion and are efficient killers of even the biggest coyotes.  IF I were to use my .17 Rem on a deer, these would be the bullets I would use, and I am 100% sure that they would indeed penetrate to and through the vitals.  I have shot coyotes at VERY close range, and have never had a bullet "splash" on the surface.

[swboyz]

I am an avid hunter living in south texas. My entire family hunts. We use 22-250's and 243's. My kids 8, 10, & 13) shoot religiuosly with me at the range and are lethal at 100 - 150 yds. I must say using a 22-250 on deer requires marksmanship. I would never use a .204 on a whitetail. Everyone wants a precisely placed shot but it doesnt always happen. We DO NOT shoot in the vitals, Neck shots ONLY! We are raising our kids to be ethical hunters, a doe is a living breathing animal just like a buck and doesnt deserve to be a testbed for someone to use a caliber that we all know is WAY to small for a deer. I know some people dont think a 22-250 is ethical but unless we are provided with an optimum shot we dont take it, no matter how big the buck is.

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Don't even think about it.

Forum decorum prevents me from further comment.

[super mario]

I have been using a .22 hornet for the past 5 years. I shoot a 45 gr hollow points and i hit them in the neck everytime.
I get complete pass throughs on the neck shattering the spine most of the time.  I took a 200lb 11 pointer with it , shot in the neck. I didnt get a pass through on that big boy but it destroyed the spine and dropped him on the spot.
Nothing has taken a step after being hit by the Hornet.  I neck shoot the deer and had or neck shoot the hogs.
 The .204 however uses a smaller bullet at a faster speed thats the problem, to light to fast and bullets could lack penetration. But I dont doubt it would kill well with neck shots. when you hit them dead center of the neck they drop like lightning struck them.
I like hunting with the Hornet  because it puts hunting back into hunting.  I have to get closer than normal when hunting with big calibers, its like between a bow and a big gun.
My son shot a medium pig with the Hornet and he made a not so perfect neck shot on him hitting the throat area, but that hollow point did a number on that pig and he went straight down and bled out fast.


heres that piggie pic

[super mario]

oops  double post  delete

[timmo58]

i own a 204 and killed a deer at 265 yards and blew the heart right out deer went 15 feet factory hornady 32 grain bullett so dont tell me it wont do a deer

[LaOtto222]

A 22 LR rim fire will kill a deer too, but I think there are better choices to be made 

[yooper77]

i own a 204 and killed a deer at 265 yards and blew the heart right out deer went 15 feet factory hornady 32 grain bullett so dont tell me it wont do a deer

It's unfortunate that you used a 204 Ruger with a 32 grain V-max (Varmint) bullet to shoot a deer at 265 yards.
-Must have been on lucky shot.

What state do you hunt in where the 204 Ruger is legal?

yooper77