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Offline and7barton

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New carronade barrel completed
« on: November 13, 2008, 10:03:42 AM »
Here's my new carronade barrel. This was the subject of discussion about stamping lettering into it on another thread. I drilled the vent today. I haven't "steeled" myself to stamping anything on it yet, apart from the already completed trunnion-end lettering.
It weighs 84 pounds, or 0-3-0 in real money.
I have still to rub it down to a smoother and brighter finish.
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Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2008, 01:31:19 PM »
     It looks great.  Will you be turning the forward band on it near the muzzle, and funneling the muzzle?  Could you give the eternally curious people like Mike and I an idea why the vent seems to be a bit forward of the expected location?  Calibre?  Major O.D.?

Thanks,

Tracy and Mike
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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2008, 06:46:51 AM »
Quote from: seacoastartillery on November 13, 2008, 01:31:19 PM
     It looks great.  Will you be turning the forward band on it near the muzzle, and funneling the muzzle?  Could you give the eternally curious people like Mike and I an idea why the vent seems to be a bit forward of the expected location?  Calibre?  Major O.D.?

Thanks,

Tracy and Mike

To the first two questions, the answers are "No" and "No" !
The vent is one inch forward of where you'd expect because the engineers couldn't bore this out any deeper than 8.5 inches. They haven't got a machine capable of it. So the length of solid metal behind the end of the boring is an astonishing 3 inches. The cascable section is welded on. We messed up with the original design; I planned for a cascable built up from seperate thick washers, welded together, with a ball welded on the end (from within the hole of the smallest washer). In order to make the first stage of the barrel, they cut off my piece from a longer piece of material. They did this before I showed them my cascable design....... When I finally did, they said it would be easier and look better, if they turned the cascable from another piece of material and welded it on. Of course, it just happened to be the bit they'd cut off in the first place !  - I did want plenty of mass behind the bore so the balance point would allow me to position the trunnions quite far back from the muzzle, which this cascable piece gives me.
Going back to the matter of the muzzle, I wanted a clean and wide and flat face to the muzzle end. This barrel was my own design. Having followed traditional shapes on all the previous creations, I decided that for this one, I'd create my own shape with a truly massive wall and breech thickness.
I have a couple of alternative mountings in mind - On a timber mounting with lifting handles, this could be used in a mortar mode........ mounted upon a naval-type carriage, it would serve as a carronade.
It can be swapped from one to the other, according to the type of deployment needed at the time.
 
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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2008, 11:46:10 AM »
Here's a view down the bore.
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Offline Victor3

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2008, 02:43:25 AM »
 I'd go with no more than 30 grains of FFG to be on the safe side ;D
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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2008, 05:42:59 AM »
Quote from: Victor3 on November 15, 2008, 02:43:25 AM
I'd go with no more than 30 grains of FFG to be on the safe side ;D

I gave it pretty well that amount last night. A half-pound charge, plus wad.
It was.....er.......quite noisy.
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Offline GGaskill

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2008, 08:48:22 AM »
That doesn't bring unwanted attention from the socialists?
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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2008, 08:52:56 AM »
Quote from: GGaskill on November 16, 2008, 08:48:22 AM
That doesn't bring unwanted attention from the socialists?

Not where I did it........ way out in the sticks. I was more worried about the inbreds and the cannibalism.
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Offline Victor3

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2008, 12:16:35 AM »
Quote from: and7barton on November 16, 2008, 08:52:56 AM

 I was more worried about the inbreds and the cannibalism.


 I'd be more worried about the zombies. A 1/2 lb charge could wake the dead :D

 Seriously though, did that much powder actually burn with a blank? I have a 3" bore mortar. More than 2 - 3oz seems to get blown out and sprinkled onto the landscape unless firing a hefty projectile.
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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2008, 01:31:03 AM »
The bore is 8.5 inches, so a good deal of it was consumed within the bore, but there was a very nice flash from the muzzle too. I won't in practise be using a charge of this size.......it would normally be 4 ounces.
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Offline Victor3

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2008, 02:25:08 AM »
Quote from: and7barton on November 17, 2008, 01:31:03 AM
The bore is 8.5 inches, so a good deal of it was consumed within the bore, but there was a very nice flash from the muzzle too. I won't in practise be using a charge of this size.......it would normally be 4 ounces.


 When I noted "3" bore", I meant the diameter. The bore depth on mine is ~12".

 What is the bore diameter on yours?
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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2008, 03:27:54 AM »
Diameter is golfball-sized..... depth just under 9 inches ( 21.5 cm )
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Offline Cannoneer

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2008, 05:11:36 PM »
Quote
I gave it pretty well that amount last night. A half-pound charge, plus wad.
It was.....er.......quite noisy.

It's lookin' good And7barton, but don't you think you're walking a little too close to the edge, by loading such a thin walled gun with that much of a charge?  ;)
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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2008, 08:24:32 PM »
Quote from: Boom J on November 17, 2008, 05:11:36 PM
Quote
I gave it pretty well that amount last night. A half-pound charge, plus wad.
It was.....er.......quite noisy.

It's lookin' good And7barton, but don't you think you're walking a little too close to the edge, by loading such a thin walled gun with that much of a charge?  ;)

ha ha ha !   :D
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Offline Double D

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2008, 02:50:17 AM »
Safety monger, er ah monitor here.  Keep in mind the safety guide lines we advocate on this board. 

Safe breech wall thickness should be equal to the diameter of of the bore.

Safe maximum charge for golf ball bore 1.68 is 3.36 oz of FG or 5.04 oz. of Cannon grade.
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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2008, 03:37:14 AM »
Quote from: Double D on November 18, 2008, 02:50:17 AM
Safety monger, er ah monitor here.  Keep in mind the safety guide lines we advocate on this board. 

Safe breech wall thickness should be equal to the diameter of of the bore.

Safe maximum charge for golf ball bore 1.68 is 3.36 oz of FG or 5.04 oz. of Cannon grade.

I fully concur if you are firing a ball out of it !

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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2008, 02:40:40 AM »
I'll be making to mountings for this barrel, one is a fairly standard naval / fortress carriage with iron wheels, the other one will be a mortar mounting which will support the barrel in a high angle mode. Here's a diagram of what I'm thinking of, in two versions, with my barrel superimposed onto it.
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Offline Double D

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2008, 04:17:59 AM »
This is a neat looking gun.  I haven't been able to find out anything about it.  Is this a copy of a real gun or is this a concept gun?
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Offline Terry C.

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2008, 04:24:29 AM »
Excellent design.

I like the longer base, but personally I would add a little to the height as well. Just extending it out drastically changes the angle of the top, and (IMO) it looks a little too thin for its length (probably would be plenty strong but better safe than sorry).

Moving the intersection up to just beneath the cheek strap would bring the angle back close to what it is in the first image, and give more support to the extension.

I hope you don't mind, I took the liberty of increasing the angle 2° here. It could probably go another degree without changing anything else:

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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2008, 04:33:56 AM »
Quote from: Double D on November 22, 2008, 04:17:59 AM
This is a neat looking gun.  I haven't been able to find out anything about it.  Is this a copy of a real gun or is this a concept gun?

This one, I allowed myself artistic licence with. All my previous ones were as authentic to originals as I could make them, but this time I'm going my own way with features that I like, wherever they originate !
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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2008, 05:20:36 AM »
Quote from: Terry C. on November 22, 2008, 04:24:29 AM
Excellent design.

I like the longer base, but personally I would add a little to the height as well. Just extending it out drastically changes the angle of the top, and (IMO) it looks a little too thin for its length (probably would be plenty strong but better safe than sorry).

Moving the intersection up to just beneath the cheek strap would bring the angle back close to what it is in the first image, and give more support to the extension.

I hope you don't mind, I took the liberty of increasing the angle 2° here. It could probably go another degree without changing anything else:



It would be even stronger if we make the top strap continuous as well as increasing the height of that timber, like this.
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Offline Double D

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2008, 07:22:20 AM »
With the trunnion mounted so low and at this high an angle, I would be inclined to make the that rear extension even thicker.  The circular force vectors are really going add some stress to them. The back end of the extensions will be a fulcrum, inducing front end lift.  Also what is the cascabel resting on.  What ever it is, it is going to get a battering. And, if it is nothing but the ground, it going to serve as a seconffulcrum and lift the front end even more. 

If you move the trunnions to the centerline all this circular force is concentrated linear straight to the rear following the centerline of the barrel and flipping effect is for  the most part eliminated
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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2008, 07:47:35 AM »
Quote from: Double D on November 22, 2008, 07:22:20 AM
With the trunnion mounted so low and at this high an angle, I would be inclined to make the that rear extension even thicker.  The circular force vectors are really going add some stress to them. The back end of the extensions will be a fulcrum, inducing front end lift.  Also what is the cascabel resting on.  What ever it is, it is going to get a battering. And, if it is nothing but the ground, it going to serve as a seconffulcrum and lift the front end even more. 

If you move the trunnions to the centerline all this circular force is concentrated linear straight to the rear following the centerline of the barrel and flipping effect is for  the most part eliminated

I've deepened the shape. The timber main baseboard is thick with a small dimple in it for the button. The recoil stresses will go onto that board.
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Offline Double D

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2008, 08:18:34 AM »
That should make a lot of difference.
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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2008, 08:22:01 AM »
Quote from: Double D on November 22, 2008, 08:18:34 AM
That should make a lot of difference.

Thanks.... I'll take that onboard.
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Offline MikeR C

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2008, 08:33:16 AM »
Looks really good, all the previous experience with building historically correct replicas is paying off in an original design that looks historically correct.

If I was to make an observation, I would remark on the very high angle of elevation. My golf ball cannon shoots about 250 to 300 yds on 50 grains of FFFG with the barrel at 45 degs. At the angle of elevation you are showing If you fire into even a calm breeze you better have a hard hat on :).

Thx
MikeR C
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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2008, 08:41:08 AM »
I'll use that elevation for firing marshmallows.
I simply dropped that bit of the photo of my barrel in......I'll research the best angle to set it at, and take any advice on the degree of tilt that you might give.
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Offline MikeR C

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2008, 08:54:28 AM »
You might consider looking at this:

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,134613.0.html

Elevation got pretty much beat to death :)

Thx
MikeR C
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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2008, 09:05:59 AM »
Quote from: MikeR C on November 22, 2008, 08:54:28 AM
You might consider looking at this:

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,134613.0.html

Elevation got pretty much beat to death :)

Thx
MikeR C

I'll give it 45 then !
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Offline Terry C.

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2008, 10:51:17 AM »
While you guys were figuring out the answer (without me ;D) I was taking these photos. As already stated, 45° is pretty much the 'standard' for the golfball mortar projects I've seen on this board.

My GB mortar has an elevation screw and was designed with a range of 35° to 60°. It stays set at 45°.

Here it is, for visual reference, at 45° and 60° respectively...





Click on either image for a larger photo.
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