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Author Topic: New carronade barrel completed  (Read 6116 times)

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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2008, 10:59:07 AM »
I won't be having any adjustment on my mortar mount........For its direct fire mode, I've got a iron-wheeled fortress-type carriage on the drawing board. This WILL have an adjustable elevation of some kind.......not sure exactly what yet. I've made a couple of large carriages with screw elevation, and a couple with a simple wedge block. I must say I do prefer the screw type but it's always been a hassle finding a threaded rod of sufficient diameter so it looks correct. I struck lucky on earlier ones, and managed to find 1 inch studding in a junkyard.
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Offline Cannoneer

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2008, 08:41:07 AM »
Quote
I've deepened the shape. The timber main baseboard is thick with a small dimple in it for the button. The recoil stresses will go onto that board.

That's an interesting bed design, I like it, and I agree with the rear portion of the cheeks being made taller, not only is it going to make it sturdier, but I think it improves the look of the bed. I'll admit that at first I didn't exactly get the concept of your barrel, (hybrid mortar/cannon design) but I understand your concept now, and I'm starting to really admire it. I'm looking forward to seeing what you're going to come up with for the truck carriage. BTW, you did a fine job on the lettering of the muzzle face.
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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2008, 09:34:25 AM »
Quote from: Boom J on November 23, 2008, 08:41:07 AM
Quote
I've deepened the shape. The timber main baseboard is thick with a small dimple in it for the button. The recoil stresses will go onto that board.

That's an interesting bed design, I like it, and I agree with the rear portion of the cheeks being made taller, not only is it going to make it sturdier, but I think it improves the look of the bed. I'll admit that at first I didn't exactly get the concept of your barrel, (hybrid mortar/cannon design) but I understand your concept now, and I'm starting to really admire it. I'm looking forward to seeing what you're going to come up with for the truck carriage. BTW, you did a fine job on the lettering of the muzzle face.

The carronade carriage design will be pretty close to the one pictured here.
I got the idea for a hybrid from the fact that I managed to get the bore to be deeper than you'd normally get in a mortar. The underslung trunnions were necessary because of the problem of getting centre-line trunnions in line with each other, and of attaching them. I could have put the single full-width trunnion at the rear of the breech like in many conventional mortars but I really fancied the idea of having a nice cascable and button turned, which in the event came out nice; so eventually I decided to have a dual purpose barrel with two alternative mountings.

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Offline GGaskill

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2008, 04:00:17 PM »
The underslung trunnions were necessary because of the problem of getting centre-line trunnions in line with each other, and of attaching them.

You really should have relied on your engineers [machinists] as it's not really difficult to get the trunnions on opposite sides lined up with the proper tooling.






Those pockets are below bore center, top edge on bore center.
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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2008, 08:24:45 PM »
Unfortunately, the cost of the whole barrel exceeded the original estimate they gave me by several times over, so by the time the matter of trunnions came up, it had become a matter more of financial damage-limitation than anything else.
The engineers had never made anything like that before..... I was the first customer to turn up with such an order.
They were also pretty sluggish with getting things done. I had to hassle them time after time as I waited for each seperate stage of the thing to be completed.
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Offline Victor3

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2008, 12:46:46 AM »
Quote from: and7barton on November 24, 2008, 08:24:45 PM
They were also pretty sluggish with getting things done. I had to hassle them time after time as I waited for each seperate stage of the thing to be completed.

 Are you a manager?  ;D

 A man in a hot air ballon realized he was lost. He reduced altitude, spotted a man below and shouted, "Excuse me! Can you help me? I promised a friend I would meet him an hour ago, but I don't know where I am!"

 The man below replied, "You are in a balloon, 30' above the ground, 40 degrees north latitude and 60 degrees west longitude.

 "You must be an engineer." Said the ballonist.

 "I am." replied the man, "How did you know?"

 "Well, everything you told me is technically correct, but I have no idea of what to make of your information. The fact is, I'm still lost, and you haven't been of much help.

 The man on the ground replied, "You must be in management."

 "I am. How did you know?

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 (Victor3, engineer currently slumming in management ;))
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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2008, 01:07:55 AM »
Excellent !
No I'm not a manager ! - I originally went to the engineering company and asked them if they could make me a little mortar barrel the same as is advertised on Ebay - selling in the states and costing around £ 70. They said, "Yes....... we can, but it might be a little dearer). It mushroomed from that and ended up costing six times that amount. I had to put the brakes on at some point. Machining such an item was beyond my workshop equipment.
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Offline Rickk

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2008, 06:01:50 AM »
See my carronade build blog from last year, particularly about the hastle of getting all four wheels to touch the ground. Not only will your carriage have to be made darn close to perfect, but you will have to find some equally perfect dirt to shoot from.

The rear wooden axle member could be hollowed out and the axle rod could pivot in the center of it, changing it from a 4 point mount to a 3 point mount which will touch the ground with all four wheels no matter where you are within the floatation range of the hidden floating rear axle.

Rick
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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2008, 06:06:21 AM »
Quote from: Rickk on November 25, 2008, 06:01:50 AM
See my carronade build blog from last year, particularly about the hastle of getting all four wheels to touch the ground. Not only will your carriage have to be made darn close to perfect, but you will have to find some equally perfect dirt to shoot from.

The rear wooden axle member could be hollowed out and the axle rod could pivot in the center of it, changing it from a 4 point mount to a 3 point mount which will touch the ground with all four wheels no matter where you are within the floatation range of the hidden floating rear axle.

Rick

That's certainly a level-headed idea  ;)
On previous 4-wheeled carriages, they were pretty solidly constructed and whether all four wheels were equally supported on the ground didn't seem to bother them.
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Offline dominick

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2008, 04:25:01 PM »
 The underslung trunnions were necessary because of the problem of getting centre-line trunnions in line with each other, and of attaching them.

  I would build an alignment fixture to hold the trunnions in place, leaving the trunnions extra long, clamp in place and weld, then cut trunnions to length.






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Offline dominick

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2008, 04:29:18 PM »
It's also important to "fit" the trunnions to the barrel so there's no gaps.






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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2008, 08:41:44 PM »
The engineers wanted ME to make the jig. They seemed to have a scanty idea of what I wanted done. They wanted me to back up every request with a precision drawing. I'd go along and tell them - " Weld this lump of metal on here......", then I'd get the question "Do you want it angled blah blah blah" - My response was always- "No - just weld the damn thing where I've drawn a 'X' " -
Then - "Shall we blah blah blah"....... "NO ! - Just WELD it !" - I showed them plenty of photos of other examples of what I wanted done but they seemed scared to take any action or show any kind of initiative of their own.


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Offline dan610324

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2008, 10:43:29 PM »
and a while back you told us they wasnt able to drill more then 8 inch deep ,
sorry to say this , but for me it doesnt seem to have been any highly skilled professionals you have been dealing with .
but as usual , its just my opinion
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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2008, 10:52:11 PM »
Perhaps they weren't. The project grew Topsy-fashion, as it developed, It started off as a short mortar pot (without trunnions), the they said "We can drill this a bit deeper than you asked, shall we do it ?"
Then it was a case of "Would you like a cascable on the back ?" - I thought that was a good idea, and so we discussed things as they progressed and it evolved. I'm very pleased with the result. I could have gone Bog standard, but all my earlier projects have been pretty bog standard. I felt like doing something entirely original in concept and design on this occasion. I'm sure they'd have produced something fine to a set of drawings, but a lot of this one was done through discussion.
No complaints though, apart from the slightly excessive cost when compared to my original budget.
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Offline dan610324

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #44 on: November 25, 2008, 11:38:03 PM »
slightly ??  6x   ::) ::)
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Offline Victor3

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2008, 12:57:22 AM »
Quote from: and7barton on November 25, 2008, 08:41:44 PM
They wanted me to back up every request with a precision drawing.

 Having managed an R&D/prototype shop, I can tell you that this is not unreasonable. I required it even from customers I knew well.

 When you take on a job based on "Just do it like this" without anything on paper, you (as a shop) run the risk of later hearing "That's not what I wanted. I'm not paying unless you do it over."

 Having a signed print in-hand before any work is done makes it clear to all parties what is required. I liken it (along with a $$$ quote) to "Good fences make good neighbors."
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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2008, 01:08:28 AM »
Quote from: dan610324 on November 25, 2008, 11:38:03 PM
slightly ??  6x   ::) ::)

well, our prices over here are always well above those in the states.......if you factor in that aspect of it, then it wasn't so bad.
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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2008, 01:14:43 AM »
Quote from: Victor3 on November 26, 2008, 12:57:22 AM
Quote from: and7barton on November 25, 2008, 08:41:44 PM
They wanted me to back up every request with a precision drawing.

 Having managed an R&D/prototype shop, I can tell you that this is not unreasonable. I required it even from customers I knew well.

 When you take on a job based on "Just do it like this" without anything on paper, you (as a shop) run the risk of later hearing "That's not what I wanted. I'm not paying unless you do it over."

 Having a signed print in-hand before any work is done makes it clear to all parties what is required. I liken it (along with a $$$ quote) to "Good fences make good neighbors."

We had good long discussions and drew sketches together in the office, and I made it pretty plain what I wanted, and made sure that they knew what it was I wanted. On some occasions, they made suggestions to improve upon what I had suggested and to be fair, they did everything exactly as we'd worked out in our discussions. A lot of it was "over" perfect. In a particular part of the job where something less precise would have sufficed (for me), they did an absolutely perfect job, i.e. - the turning of the cascable. From that aspect I was, and still am, very impressed and pleased.

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Offline Victor3

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2008, 02:00:36 AM »
 That's good; you got what you needed. They sound like helpful folks.

 I had slightly less patients for job-in-progress changes when I was involved in such things. It can get maddening if you're already well into a project.

 The shop owner used to calmly tell me, "Just smile and charge them another nickel, Vic."  ;)
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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #49 on: December 13, 2008, 07:31:14 AM »
Sawing and knocking together some nice oak.
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Offline Tropico

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #50 on: December 13, 2008, 07:55:06 AM »
Way to go ! This is looking great ., I cant wait for more build photos. So far it looks real good.
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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #51 on: December 13, 2008, 08:00:10 AM »
Quote from: Tropico on December 13, 2008, 07:55:06 AM
Way to go ! This is looking great ., I cant wait for more build photos. So far it looks real good.

Here's my basic plan, which is evolving as we go.
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Offline Cannoneer

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #52 on: December 13, 2008, 09:48:16 PM »
And7barton,

 I recently had a project where the size of the lumber called for a return to the good ole body electric for a power source; using a hand saw on a thick piece of oak is great exercise, isn't it?
Your work is coming along fine, I'm looking forward to seeing the carriage hardware.
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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #53 on: December 13, 2008, 10:26:01 PM »
Quote from: Boom J on December 13, 2008, 09:48:16 PM
And7barton,

 I recently had a project where the size of the lumber called for a return to the good ole body electric for a power source; using a hand saw on a thick piece of oak is great exercise, isn't it?
Your work is coming along fine, I'm looking forward to seeing the carriage hardware.

I bought a new handsaw for this job - works a treat and as you say, great exercise !
I have a circular saw (too imprecise, doesn't cut deep enough) - an electric jigsaw (too weak, not deep enough), so it was back to pre-electric techology.
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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #54 on: December 16, 2008, 09:57:25 AM »
Today the barrel was introduced to his new carriage.....sat him on the timber to line up and mark out how things will be fixed together.....nearly got a hernia carrying the thing out from the house to the workshop on slippery icy ground.
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Offline GGaskill

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #55 on: December 16, 2008, 01:06:03 PM »
... nearly got a hernia carrying the thing out from the house to the workshop on slippery icy ground.

That's what they make dollies for.  (Not sure dolly means the same thing in English that it does in American; here it is a two wheeled vertical apparatus used for moving heavy stuff.  Also called a handtruck.)
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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #56 on: December 16, 2008, 01:10:23 PM »
Quote from: GGaskill on December 16, 2008, 01:06:03 PM
... nearly got a hernia carrying the thing out from the house to the workshop on slippery icy ground.

That's what they make dollies for.  (Not sure dolly means the same thing in English that it does in American; here is is a two wheeled vertical apparatus used for moving heavy stuff.  Also called a handtruck.)

Not a lot of use for negotiating my front door step, then down three steps, then across an area of cobbles !
I find a lot of groaning and gasping and cussing really helps my lifting capacity.
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Offline Terry C.

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #57 on: December 16, 2008, 03:10:10 PM »
Quote from: and7barton on December 16, 2008, 01:10:23 PM
I find a lot of groaning and gasping and cussing really helps my lifting capacity.

Bleeding helps too.

I mashed one of my fingertips at work today (thought for sure it was broken but it wasn't). I moved the offending piece of steel plate off my finger with superhuman speed!

The finger was split open by the sharp edge of the plate, hence the blood (lots).
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Offline and7barton

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #58 on: December 16, 2008, 09:05:56 PM »
Quote from: Terry C. on December 16, 2008, 03:10:10 PM
Quote from: and7barton on December 16, 2008, 01:10:23 PM
I find a lot of groaning and gasping and cussing really helps my lifting capacity.

Bleeding helps too.

I mashed one of my fingertips at work today (thought for sure it was broken but it wasn't). I moved the offending piece of steel plate off my finger with superhuman speed!

The finger was split open by the sharp edge of the plate, hence the blood (lots).




Yes, bleeding can be very enriching. I got bitten several times by that new handsaw, allowing my other hand to stray too close to those teeth.
David Carradine probably recommends it as part of my Samurai training.
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Offline Cannoneer

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Re: New carronade barrel completed
« Reply #59 on: December 17, 2008, 04:41:10 AM »
Quote from: and7barton on December 16, 2008, 09:57:25 AM
Today the barrel was introduced to his new carriage.....sat him on the timber to line up and mark out how things will be fixed together.....nearly got a hernia carrying the thing out from the house to the workshop on slippery icy ground.

 You know, I've been thinking, (sometimes a dangerous thing) your barrel weighs in at 84 lbs., and that's not including either of the carriages' weights, Double D's new mortar weighs 92 and Rocklock's new Parrott is 140 pounds (I think Dominick said approx. 140). It's probably a good time for all three of you to start increasing your spinach intake; I hope all of you have areas where you can fire that allow you to drive your vehicles right up close to the spot you're going to be firing from, if not, this might be a good time to expound upon George's post about handtrucks, or some type of wagon for that matter. I can just picture DD marching across his range area shouting commands to his harnessed Rat Terriers that are hitched to a wagon that's carrying his Dictator.
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RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.
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