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Author Topic: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.  (Read 2741 times)

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Offline seacoastartillery

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A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« on: November 13, 2008, 03:42:28 PM »
     In our travels around this great country, we have always wondered how all these cannon have been so completely blown up or battle damaged.  We usually find one per year.  This year we found two.  They come from the Northeast, East Coast, Southeast and Gulf Coast areas of the United States.

      See if you can figure out what they are, (12 pdr. field gun or 32 pdr. naval gun, etc.), and what probably caused the visible damage,  and post your results.  Nobody takes these contests seriously at all.  They are JUST FOR FUN.  If you can come up with probable location, you will get extra cudos from Mike and I.  Hints will be given as necessary.

     We will declare a winner in two days.  The winner does not get a free cannon from us, only praise, admiration and acclaim!!

Good Luck!!

Mike and Tracy


Featured in a recent thread, this is a giveaway.




This one almost killed Robert E. Lee when he was a United States Army Officer.




This one was damaged on the Gettysburg battlfield, but we didn't find it in that Northern State of Penn.




This dented cannon was found near the last one.




We found this beauty on a University campus, although Not a service academy.




These pieces of this large seacoast gun now reside in a southern locale near the site of a "forced passage" in '64.




Hope this didn't hurt anyone!




One of the most famous guns in Civil War history.  What happened AND location please!




We found this intriguing relic in the only equal sided fort built in the Third System.  Now THAT'S a clue!!



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Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Swampman

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2008, 03:48:08 PM »
Quote
These pieces of this large seacoast gun now resides in a southern locale near the site of a "forced passage" in '64.

I believe that one might have killed the commander of Fort Morgan at the end of Mobile Bay when they fired the salute.  The gruesome letter to his wife, his upper plate, and some pieces of his uniform reside in the museum in the background.  He was the only one killed at Morgan during that battle if I'm not mistaken.
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Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2008, 03:55:20 PM »
     Swampman,   Excellent on location; any idea what these pieces were before it blew?

T&M
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Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Swampman

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2008, 03:58:48 PM »
No, but my family and I played music many times for the Civil War balls held at Morgan.  Our tent was frequently set up right at the base of the steps that went up to where that cannon sat before it exploded.
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"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Terry C.

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2008, 04:19:27 PM »
In reference to photo #2, there used to be a very similar fragment in front of Fort Clinch.

To my knowledge, I don't have any photos of it. It was moved many years ago.

In that case it was a Rodman that was deliberately destroyed. There were a lot of guns destroyed at Fort Clinch. When the old jetties were exposed (they've long since been covered over) you could find large iron gun fragments mixed in with the rocks.
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Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2008, 04:55:37 PM »
     Terry,   You are in the correct state, I mean YOU are in the correct state.  Think more northerly along the coast, a fort with an ironclad very close by. 

T&M
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Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2008, 11:39:03 PM »
Ouch!

OOOOwww!

euuuu!


Such pain and anguish!

One cannot look passively at those images!

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Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline KABAR2

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2008, 04:16:16 AM »
I believe the mortar that was sectioned by shell going off prematurley resides at Fort Ticonderoga
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Offline Max Caliber

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2008, 04:49:41 AM »
The bronze pieces appear to be at West Point. One a Confederate Napoleon and the other a 24-pounder howitzer, model 1841, maybe, both hit by shot or shell. I recognize the Ft. Morgan picture but not the others.

I appreciate all the pictures you Guys post.

Max
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Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2008, 05:43:03 AM »
     KABAR2,   Thank you Allen for your straightforward and correct answer!  No. 7 is complete.  Fort Ticonderoga, in upstate New York, is the location of a huge collection of artillery and the Fort which was central to so much fascinating history in both the French and Indian War and the Revolutionary War.  Allen, remember what DD wrote after he won the first  "Where are these located CONTEST"?  He wrote, "Google is my friend".  Almost all of these can be answered by good use of a reliable search engine. 

     Tim, as one of our recent presidents once said, "I feel your pain."  Two of these are located in your adopted state.  Get busy!

     Max,   Bingo!  Max you are doing great and have correctly identified the 24 pounder Howitzer and it's defect.  No. 4. is complete!  On the No. 3. photo look very carefully at the muzzle.  What do you see at the 6 o'clock low position?  Look at the wall thickness in the muzzle area.  Confederate YES, Napoleon, eh, errrrr, No.  Try once again.  Max has one and a half nailed, so far.  The location is not necessary for score, but we appreciate Max having the gumption to give it a shot.  Although you are certainly correct that the U.S.M.A. at West point, New York has rows of cannon similar to this row, that ain't the place for these.  Where was Maj. General Burnside's last folly?  To be fair about this, his boss, General Meade, did NOT help him out a bit by ordering a last minute change of plans. 

M&T
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Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Max Caliber

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2008, 08:40:59 AM »
The # 3 and 4 pictures are at Petersburg, Va. I can't enlarge the pictures but assume that the barrel in #3 is rifled and if so, is a 3 inch bronze Confederate rifle. It looks too short and thick though. Would look more like the James rifle on the left.

Max
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Offline Cannoneer

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2008, 10:31:57 AM »
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RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Double D

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2008, 10:44:19 AM »
Boom,

I wonder if that gun is still loaded?
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Offline Cannoneer

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2008, 11:02:23 AM »
Quote from: Double D on November 14, 2008, 10:44:19 AM
Boom,

I wonder if that gun is still loaded?

DD,

 Following the story line, I would have to guess yes, why else would the remaining crew have been trying to ram the ball home. 
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RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline waynef

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2008, 11:05:44 AM »
M&T,

I can identify the first picture as that was taken in my home town. I had my hands on that gun last Tuesday.
Its a 32lb carronade with a shell still in the bore as are the other two sitting next two it. It obviously took a hit during its life time and was brought to this location in the 80's when this site took on another restoration. The site of these three carronades is "OLD FORT NIAGARA" Niagara county, town of Porter, village of Youngstown NY.

I'm now going to get a digital camera to try and keep up with u guy's...

Wayne


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Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2008, 12:24:10 PM »
     Wow, you guys are getting the hang of it very quickly, and it's nice to see some new names among the participants.  We thought for a while that we would have to post all sorts of clues, but now we are going to let it go for tonight in the original version to give you googlers and yahooers and dogpilers a chance to do your stuff.  The location on several is going to be quite a challenge, but, for the second or third time, location is NOT necessary for score, only a nicety you can throw in for an extra attaboy.

     Thank you Max, you are a maker extraordinaire and now it seems, also an artillery sleuth and a student of history.  You have successfully answered Nos. 3 and 4.  Not many in this group knew that one was a Confederate gun.  You are correct about the enlargement, one more standard bump up in size and you could see that rifling clearly.  A cast iron gun hit that hard would have lost the entire front portion of it's tube.  Yes, that is a 14-pdr. James rifle.  Good for a special Attaboy!! 

     Boom J,   Thank you so much for posting your source; it actually does a much better job of explaining exactly what happened to produce such a tragic oddity.  If you could attempt some of the others, we believe you could give KABAR 2, Max and Wayne run for their money.  Double D brings up a logical question and the answer is yes it was and remained that way for over a hundred years on display in the State House rotunda in Providence, RI.  No one thought to check until the gun was to be shipped south for a special occasion, and OH OH!!, we better get this powder out of there before we ship it!  Another big thank you from the Colorado Cannon guys.

     


     
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Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2008, 12:44:18 PM »
     Wayne, thank you for answering correctly on No. 1.  Interesting that you live right there, have you been over to Fort George on the Canadian side of the Niagara River?  If so, what's it like?  Worth a trip if someone was in the area?  Thank you for participating.  The more, the merrier!  Get that camera, but just so you know, we take about about 1,000 to 2,000 photos per trip.  You should have seen the film processing charges in 2000 and 2001.   Yeeeeooooow!!  Good job, Wayne;  try another.

T&M
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Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Terry C.

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2008, 01:00:06 PM »
Quote from: seacoastartillery on November 13, 2008, 04:55:37 PM
     Terry,   You are in the correct state, I mean YOU are in the correct state.  Think more northerly along the coast, a fort with an ironclad very close by. 

T&M

Well, since it involves a pre-CSA Robert E. Lee, I'm thinking it must be Pulaski.

But since I haven't been able to find any info on the exploded gun, I can't be sure.
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Offline RocklockI

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2008, 01:04:30 PM »
Is that the ball a general fired and plugged the enemy muzzle ?

Is that University breech blow oriented correctly?

rocklock
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Offline Max Caliber

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2008, 01:48:27 PM »
In photo number 6, based on the shape of the upright piece, my guess is that it was a Dahlgren.

Max
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Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2008, 01:57:59 PM »
     Terry,  where is the CSS Georgia?  It was there by late in December of '64 and is still there today.  As to what, well take a good look at those notches on the breech of that beast.

     RocklockI,   I think the officer, (not sure of grade) fired a different one which lodged in the bore of a gun at Gettysburg, PA.  This one was also plugged at Gettysburg, but if they were the same, certainly someone would know that and the signs posted next to the gun at the State House in Providence, RI would read quite differently.
     Oriented correctly?  Do you mean rightside up?  See the distinctive sight; that's all the orientation you really need.  It also I.D.s the gun's maker too.  Type?  Look at the Obama side of this photo for a clue.  Far edge.

Good luck guys!

T&M
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Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2008, 02:03:00 PM »
     Max, look again at the breech;  see that shape called "the mushroom breech".  Only one guy developed that and his name ain't Dahlgren.

T&M
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Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Terry C.

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2008, 02:28:55 PM »
T&M, I know #2 is a (was) a Rodman gun. I thought I mentioned that earlier, at least I meant to.

Also, it was one of the early ratchet-notched Rodmans, not the later socket-notch design.
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Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2008, 02:49:37 PM »
      Terry,   yes you did say that before in circuitous way.  More importantly you correctly I.D.d it as a ratchet type pre-war gun.  Now, HOW was or WHY was Robert E. Lee almost killed at that fort where the sunken, CSS Georgia lies today?

Remember that the piece on display at the fort was only discovered in the last 20 years in a swampy area near the fort. 

Regards,

M&T
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Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline billy_56081

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2008, 03:12:50 PM »
From someone who isn't really into BP mortar and cannon. I have to say these are some of the coolest most interesting pics ever posted on GBO. Thanks.
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Offline Terry C.

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2008, 03:38:26 PM »
Billy, welcome! But be warned, cannon/mortar building and shooting are highly addictive.

You will be assimilated, resistance is futile...
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Offline RocklockI

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2008, 08:30:27 PM »
Tracy ,I mean the film could be backwards like the left handed photo of Billy The Kid .
The sight was on the wrong side if it's a Parrot ...

I'm going to have to reread the text on the muzzle jam ... It looks to me like it hit the muzzle and "fixed" itself in there .
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"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline Victor3

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2008, 03:26:12 AM »
 Is there much info available on how/why the exploded pieces came apart?
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Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2008, 05:01:59 AM »
     Thanks, billy_56081, we appreciate your interest and kind comment, but watch out, because Terry C is right.

     We left film behind in 2002, RocklockI, so this cannot be a reversed image.  The clue stands:  Look at the extreme left-hand edge of the
photo.  That little black triangle is a portion of a feature on this rifle which will, in addition to the distinctive front sight, definitely I.D. this snub-nosed cannon.  Located on the quadrangle of a New England University.

     No Victor, there is not, but most Civil War ordinance destroyed in use have a common probable cause.

Look at the last one.  What is it?  What probably happened?  Why?   And what's the STORY behind No. 2.?

Good luck,

M&T
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Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Max Caliber

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Re: A Battle-Damaged or Blown-Up Cannon CONTEST, just for fun.
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2008, 06:02:15 AM »
OK, so #6 is a Rodman. My computer monitor is getting old and with both the contrast and brightness turned up full it is still hard to see detail in dark areas of pictures.

My guess on #9 is that it is a Confederate Parrott rifle at Ft. Morgan.

Max



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