Author Topic: help needed - handi .357 won't cock  (Read 4125 times)

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Offline anifong

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help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« on: November 15, 2008, 02:34:23 AM »
I've got a 7-year old in tears right now because his first opportunity at a deer this morning was foiled by a gun malfunction - it was shooting great 2 days ago, but this morning with a few does in front of us it wouldn't cock, and I can't seem to get it to cock now that we're back in the house. The only thing I can think of is that it was dropped or something.  Any ideas?

Offline cwlongshot

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2008, 02:38:23 AM »
Its near impossible to diagnose from here.. but my first thought was the transfer bar...assuming its newer. Check the FAQ's for TRIGGER WORK. That will give you good dissassembly instructions.

 Short of that, I'd suggest you get to to a gunsmith or send it back to Remington.

 Sorry for the kids disappointments....

CW
"Pay heed to the man who carries a single shot rifle, he likely knows how to use it."

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Remember... Four boxes keep us free: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.

Offline anifong

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2008, 02:50:16 AM »
Thanks - i checked out the trigger work info, and it's over my head, definitely seems to be something internal but I wanted to ask here and make sure it wasn't something i could do here.  I'm thinking I may just have to get on the phone and try to locate another one, swap the scope and rings out and do some sighting in, maybe can still get out this afternoon.

Offline bilmac

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2008, 03:11:05 AM »
For a gun to go from working one day to not working the next suggests to me that maybe some debris got into the action via the slot for the trigger or hammer. I don't know much about handi rifles, but if it is like most break actions, you can get to the action by removing the butt stock. To do that on most of them you take one screw out of the buttplate and loosen the other so that it pivots. There will be a large hole near the center of the stock. There is a bolt deep within this hole that needs to be removed then the stock will come off and you can see what your problem is. Getting the bolt that holds the stock on out is sometimes a problem because it is so deep within the hole.

Usually the stock bolt can be turned with a large flat blade screwdriver. It usually takes one with a long shank. Try the biggest flat blade screwdriver you have and if it won't  work go for something bigger. An old fashoned L shaped lug wrench with a screwdriver shaped end usually works. Betcha dollars to donuts if you tale off the butt stock you'll find a simple reason why the gun won't cock. If you have problems try to get Quicktdos attention. He can tell you more than you ever wanted to know about handis.

Offline zoner

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2008, 03:17:18 AM »
do you mean that the hammer won't cock completely(it will move to the rear normally but wont lock up with trigger) or that it is down and you can't move it at all from that position?

Offline anifong

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2008, 03:20:45 AM »
Thanks! i got to thinking and I did swap out the regular length stock that came with it with a youth stock - when i remove the stock the gun cocks fine! 

Could the bolt that holds the stock be too long and interfering with the action?

When you pull the hammer back it goes all the way back but just doesn't lock. 

Offline zoner

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2008, 03:40:07 AM »
sounds like it's a length issue with the stock bolt...try putting the stock back on, tighten the bolt, try to cock it and if it doesn't work loosen the stock bolt half a turn and try to cock it again, if it won't cock loosen another half turn with the bolt, try it again and continue this process until it cocks properly....then go a little more...tthis should tell you about much too long the bolt is then you should be able to replace it with the right length bolt or maybe put washers on the bolt you have to shorten it that way

Offline anifong

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2008, 03:57:53 AM »
That's exactly what i did - also compared bolt in regular stock with youth one, added some washers and that did the trick. Now to explain to the kid that dad's incompetence is the reason he didn't get his first deer this morning!  Thanks a lot for the help guys, i never would've guessed that bolt without getting nudged in that direction.  I was headed out the door to pick up another .357 - you all just saved me a bunch of $$$, all due to a bone-headed mistake I made myself.  Still might buy another handi, though, now that i'm not cussing them and that way both son and daughter will have one.  Thanks again

Andy

Offline zoner

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2008, 04:02:34 AM »
good job...the future of our pastime pertains directly to passing on our passion for the sport to our kids...take em shootin and teach them to register to vote when they are eligible and fight for their rights...so go buy your daughter that Handi, bud

Offline Rustyinfla

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2008, 04:26:26 AM »


   YOU ONLY HAVE ONE HANDI??? ???


  I think there's a law against that. They should always be purchased in pairs so they don't get lonely. They shoot better that way.
If you're gonna be stupid ya gotta be tuff

Offline Jimbo47

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2008, 04:38:59 AM »
Glad to see it worked out and so soon!

It's those little things that are easily overlooked, but I guess it's human nature to look for something other than the obvious.

He will get his deer, but he also learned a good life lesson, and that is anything worth doing, doesn't always come easy.
My culled down Handi's are the 45-70, and then I have a few others to keep it company...357 Mag/Max. .45 LC/.454 Casull Carbine, .243 Ultra, and 20 gauge Tracker II.

Offline Datil

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2008, 04:42:37 AM »
Really Rusty He needs a half Doz. That way with one In the safe It won't get lonely,
 While taking one out for excerize.  Datil

Offline Lon371

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2008, 04:44:48 AM »
 You need to pick up the other child one in a .44.  They shoot great and kick no more than the .357.

Sorry to here about your morning hunt. We just came in to dry out. We are in southern Indiana.

This should make you feel better. Here is how our morning went. Deer walked up in my face 15 feet- in the dark 6am. when I realized it was a deer it realized I was sitting there and left. after daylight Had a doe come out at 75 yards and my Knight disc misfired for the second time since I have owned it(8 years)
Neghbor kid took a shot at a different doe 125yards missed( scope was loose) My boy had 4 run past him at a dead run, he didnt shoot.  Did I mention it poured the whole time we were out. :'(

Tell that boy hold his head up and go get that deer. Stuff happens.

Lonny

Offline cwlongshot

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2008, 04:54:29 AM »
I just got back in and read the posts..

 VERY GLAD you figured it out and also GLAD I was wrong!! 

Use this as a life's lesson!! Its HUNTING NOT KILLING or SHOOTING. Years from now he will surely appreciate you, what you did and the time spent with you in the outdoors!!  Besides, I'm sure that in your kids eyes your in-fallable. the way it should be!!

 Good luck and  hunting!!

CW
"Pay heed to the man who carries a single shot rifle, he likely knows how to use it."

NRA LIFE Member 
Remember... Four boxes keep us free: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2008, 05:12:56 AM »
Glad ya figured it out, all that's left now is to hear the story of the lad getting his deer!! ;)

EDIT: Seems to me someone else has had this problem now that I've thought about it a bit, I just checked my youth Sportster, it uses the standard 3/8"-24x4" cap screw with a washer. I've mounted a lot of stocks without a washer, but apparently some stocks required the washer, I'll put a warning in the FAQs on it to save someone else the headache.  ;)

Thanks,

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Mitch in MI

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2008, 10:34:01 AM »
When I read that you went afield with a gun that could not be fired with the child sized stock on it, it made me wonder how many (if any) practice rounds the kid had fired at the range with this setup.

Offline anifong

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2008, 01:57:26 PM »
Well if my mistake wasn't clue enough, I'm just getting started with this whole Handi thing, though this morning I wasn't thinking real highly of them until I figured out my mistake.  I'll no doubt be checking into the .44 mag Handi, as that was what I originally wanted, but after talking to the folks at the gun shop I decided to go with the .357 since my son's 7 and daughter is 9, both about the same size, and my son was complaining about the recoil of a .410 and had no interest in shooting the Ruger .44 mag I tested.  I figured ultimately I'm doing this for them, even though the .44 appears to be the better gun for deer.

Mitch, you're right, obviously we didn't shoot it with the new stock.  I ordered it on Monday, I think and it came on Friday.  I had noticed the standard stock was a bit awkward for them to shoot, but they were both shooting 4-inch groups at 50 yards (kids with no shooting experience shooting off folding table with jacket for a rest) so didn't think much of it, until I learned on here how easy and inexpensive it was to swap the stock.  In my excitement for the gun opener, I quickly swapped the stock, figured if anything this would help their form but really wouldn't change how the gun shoots.  Dumb rookie mistake, I'm sure, but it seemed logical at the time. 

Finally I really appreciate the comments about teaching the kids right, that's exactly what I'm trying to do, however I'm mostly learning right along side them.  My dad didn't hunt, was an over-the-road truck driver, so I really had no exposure to hunting until high school when I went out with some buddies, then began going out with my future wife's family.  We built a house in the country and have family land all around us, so I'm hoping to give them the opportunity to do this stuff that I didn't have.  Both kids took the hunter's ed course in October and passed the test.  Before the class as motivation to sit through 12 hours of "school" on the weekend, I told them if they passed the test I'd buy them something they could shoot this deer season.  I'm really more of a bow-hunter, and don't know much about guns (obviously) - here in Indiana a shotgun and a .22 is pretty much all you need!  Once I discovered the Handi-rifle and checked the reviews here and other places, I was sold.  It's great to have an affordable gun that can be tweaked as much as this gun can, and a community like this where people like me can learn a lot.  Frankly I find the local gun shops a bit intimidating, kind of like a fat guy going to the gym!  Thanks again.

I'll be sure to post when either of the kids get their deer - came close tonight with my son, had a small 8 pointer with a doe 50 yards away, but had a small tree in our way, obscuring the shoulder.  It was tempting to try to slip one in, but we held off for a better shot, which never came. Son forgave me this afternoon - said he'd rather have a dad that will do this stuff for him than a deer!



Andy

Offline Lon371

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2008, 02:32:59 PM »
Quote
said he'd rather have a dad that will do this stuff for him than a deer!

Makes the outing worth going, deer or no deer ;)

Lonny

Offline LaOtto222

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2008, 11:33:30 PM »
anifong - I am from Indiana too. Your saying that a shotgun and a 22 is all you need, reminded me of my father. He had an Ithaca model 37 12 gauge pump and a Remington model 12 22 pump. He said that is all you need to hunt any thing in Indiana and you do not need any thing more. He was a hunter - not a shooter. I married into a family that were shooters and gun collectors, not hunters. I have become a cross between the two. The older I get, the less I have become a hunter :(

Now isn't being there for your son special? I still remember my times afield with my father. They are special memories. He has been gone for quite a few years now, but I remember them like yesterday. You are building them right now with your son. I do not know how much better it gets than that.

I thank you for bringing back those pleasant thoughts of MY youth. Good Luck and Good Shooting, my friend.
Great men have vision and resolve to make dreams come true.

Offline Mitch in MI

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2008, 01:17:55 AM »
I see. They had practiced with the gun, were doing OK while trying to crawl up the adult stock, so it WAS logical to mount the short buttstock on the eve of deer season and head out in the morning.

Thanks for the heads up on the stock bolt. Now I know to dry fire a few times after messing with the buttstock on my NEFs.

Offline Slufoot

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2008, 01:40:39 AM »
Son forgave me this afternoon - said he'd rather have a dad that will do this stuff for him than a deer!

That is beautiful, sounds like you have a very, very special relationship with your son.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

Offline anifong

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2008, 12:54:15 PM »
Had to make sure i got this up here - here's my 7 year-old son Owen beaming with his first deer that he shot with his .357 Handi.  Got her at 80 yards, made a great shot - she ran 60 yards, stopped and then toppled over.  The .357 got both lungs and passed through a rib on its way out. 




Since firearms season is done now in Indiana, I removed the stock again to clean it up and try out the camo stock I got from another member here (thanks, Lon!).  I had picked up the standard bolt for the stock, and in comparing the one in the gun I see the one I received with the "new" gun was 5" versus the standard 4".  No wonder! I wondered about it when I didn't see anyone mentioning their bolt already having 5 washers on it - i had to add a few more to get the thing to stop interfering with the action.  I've now got the right bolt and a couple of backups, too.  The shop I bought the gun from mentioned they do a lot of customizing of the Handi-rifles, so I'm guessing my gun may have been tinkered with before getting sold.  Just wanted to say thanks again for helping me get to the bottom of the problem.
 

Offline burntmuch

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2008, 01:05:30 PM »
Thats awesome. Glad to hear everything worked out. Sounds like you have quite the hunter there. Tell him congrats & good shooting
I dont care what gun Im using as long as Im hunting

Offline Badnews Bob

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2008, 01:10:29 PM »
Awsume results, Love that smile a little bit of trouble shooting and a leason learned by all sounds like a good thing to me, learning to overcome adversity is a good leson learn, Maybe your boy ( and you) got more than a deer this year. ;D

BTW the .44 isn't bad for the youngins to shoot at all I fitted mine to a nine year old to hunt with this year, He didn't get a deer but he could shoot it very well, He didn't want me to take off the williams peeps I have on it he learned how to use them and was hitting 3" groups at 50 offhand with the .44. Another side note is as they grow you can ream that to .357 max and increase its range and learn your boy how to reload.  I don't have kids of my own but I sure enjoy helping my friends with there youngins. 8)
Badnews Bob
AE-2 USN retired

Offline Slufoot

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2008, 01:40:36 PM »
Great picture, Congrats to your son!

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

Offline zoner

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2008, 02:34:15 PM »
that smile on the kids face says it all......

Offline greenjeans

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2008, 02:43:26 PM »
Congratulations to you and your son.
Romans 8:38,39

Offline Jimbo47

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2008, 03:05:31 PM »
Way to go Owen!
My culled down Handi's are the 45-70, and then I have a few others to keep it company...357 Mag/Max. .45 LC/.454 Casull Carbine, .243 Ultra, and 20 gauge Tracker II.

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2008, 04:11:49 PM »
Congrats to Owen, and you too Andy for getting him there!! ;)

That 5" bolt is probably for a Survivor stock being used somewhere in it's past. 

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Lon371

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Re: help needed - handi .357 won't cock
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2008, 02:44:51 AM »
 Great Job Owen and dad. I know you are both very proud as you should be. :)

Lonny