Hill Country Rifles

[Bowjack]

I was thinking of getting a 1990's Model 70 accurized by Hill Country Rifles, http://www.hcrifle.com/ and I was wondering what you guys thought of them and their work.  Anyone have an opinion or experience with them?  Is it worth the expense or are there better?

[Bowjack]

Anybody?

[kyelkhunter3006]

They seem to be able to produce very good work, from what I've read.  I have no actual experience with them though. 

What I HAVE found though is that many times, you can get the same work done by another less well-known/publicised-by-the-gun-magazines- gunsmith for a better price with a better turnaround time.  If you really want them to be the ones to do the work, then by all means, have them do it.

I'd shop around and actually talk to at least a couple of others to compare service, warranty/guarantee, price, etc.  If someone is asking (for example) $250 more for the same work, what are you actually getting for the extra $250?  Just a prime-time name on the invoice?  I've seen and shot quite a few rifles from small town no name gunsmiths that would stay right along the big name guys, for a lot less money.

[Graybeard]

I have no personal experience with them but like what I read of them. They do actually shoot your rifle after working on it and show you the target and tell you the ammo used to develop the group you see on the paper. They have an accuracy promise to back up the quality of their work.

If they accurize only tho you may or may not get an accurate rifle and their website backs that up. They promise a certain size group but say that if it doesn't deliver that (due say to a poor barrel that just can't produce accuracy) then you pay less than the full price but still must pay. Only if they change out the barrel is the accuracy guarantee absolute.

[kyelkhunter3006]

Actually, how's the gun shooting as is now?  If you're getting 1" groups or smaller, there probably isn't anything that they're going to do to it that'll make it shoot better.

[Bowjack]

GB,

I also liked what I have read about them and I heard they do good work.

kyelk,

The gun doesn't shoot bad with about 1 1/2" groups with standard factory ammo, but I thought that if I could make this gun super accurate for the price it would cost me to find a round it really likes and not buy another rifle - as I really do like the feel of this gun - I figured why not?

[kyelkhunter3006]

If you're getting 1.5" with factory ammo out of an un-tuned gun, I'd think that I'd get a basic reloading kit and manual first, and try to work up some handloads for it.....or if you know someone who reloads, get them to help you develop some loads.

Is the barrel free-floated or does it have a pressure point?  If it's got a pressure point, put a couple shims under the flat part of the action to float the barrel and see how it does.  If it's always been floating, put a couple of shims under the barrel at the tip of the stock to creat a pressure point to see what happens.  Might make a huge difference, might not, but it's not going to cost you anything but some time and ammo to find out.

I think that to beat those groups with factory ammo, you'd probably have to re-barrel the gun.  Might not do it even then.  Don't get me wrong, if they lap the locking lugs and square everything up(blue printing is the "technical" term), the groups might shrink.  But is it worth several hundred dollars to you to get groups from 1.5" down to 1"?

Do you have any buddies that shoot 30-06's?  If you have 1 or 2 that are interested in getting as much accuracy as they can with factory ammo, you might talk to them and pool some money together to buy as many different factory loads as you can, one box of each load you want to try.  Then you all go to the range and shoot 3 or 5 shot groups with each type, cleaning your barrel between groups.  Instead of you dropping a lot of cash on loads that might not group in your gun (same for them) you spread the cost of finding a good factory load between yourselves.

I'm not trying to talk you out of getting your gun tuned up (lord knows I've spent enough on my own), but there's a lot of things you should try on your own first before sending the gun out and putting serious cash on the line.  Price on the website is $400 for the service, and turn around is running 12-14 weeks.  That's a lot of time and money spent when a day trip to the range and $200 worth of ammo (spred between several guys) could get you what you're looking for.

[Graybeard]

If your rifle is now shooting 1.5" with factory ammo I'd be willing to bet that when Hill Country does their thing they will have it shooting that 0.5" they promise and will even tell you what to use that will do it.

[Bowjack]

I did notice a pressure point and maybe a shim would help or even a local gunsmith could tune it up cheaper.  As for reloading, it is out of the question for now as I have too many irons in the fire where I have to juggle my priorities already.  However, the idea of sharing ammo is a good one to offset the cost of pricey ammo.  It is amazing what I took for granted only a short time ago.

However, Graybeard's last post tempts me even more so.

[WyoStillhunter]

I sent a rifle to Hill Country six or eight (10?) years ago.  It was a Rem. 700 ADL in a laminated "mountain rifle style" stock from the old Fajen company, caliber 30-06.  I'd had this rifle since the early 1960s.  It shot okay but I cannot produce any data about average group size before I sent it off.

Hill Country Rifles did their basic accurizing package and I also had them put a new Leupold M8 4X scope and mounts on it.  They sent it back with a target that showed a 3-shot group that was less than 1" using Hornady Custom 180 gr. ammo.  It can still shoot such groups but 1.5" is a more honest average for a variety of ammo nowadays.  Besides, is it realistic to expect any sporter weight rifle with a 4X scope to shoot sub-MOA groups on a regular basis?  Probably not. 

I cannot say that it was really worth the money to me in the long run.  Hill Country Rifles did exactly what they promised so I do not fault them.  It's just that the rifle was accurate enough for hunting before they worked on it.  Now it is a little more accurate.  It is not sub-MOA with all ammo and it certainly didn't turn into some sort of "magic" rifle because of what they did. 

I have come to the conclusion over many years of shooting and hunting that a consistent 2 MOA rifle is more than adequate for hunting any large game.  Just last week I shot a 0.73" group (3 shots) with a Marlin 336 in .35 Rem. using a 4X Sightron scope.  That rifle and scope together cost me less than the Hill Country make over on my '06.

If you want a phenominally accurate rifle I suggest going with a full custom rifle rather than paying a few hundred bucks for someone to tweek an off the shelf rifle you already own.

[kyelkhunter3006]

If your rifle is now shooting 1.5" with factory ammo I'd be willing to bet that when Hill Country does their thing they will have it shooting that 0.5" they promise and will even tell you what to use that will do it.

I don't know about that...  After reading about the service, they only lap the lugs and lug recess if there isn't a possiblity of it changing the headspace.  In other words, if the headspace will be too much after lapping, they aren't going to do it.  Just about every other place I've talked to will lap the lugs/recesses and check headspace, then, if needed, they'll pull the barrel and cut a thread off and set the shoulder of the barrel back to make the headspace minimum.

So if they aren't lapping the lugs/recesses and/or squaring up the bolt face and barrel, and it's obvious that they aren't going to do that if they won't lap the lugs because the headspace will be too much, what exactly are you getting for $400?

Here's a basic tune-up as I understand it:

1. Check headspace for a standard on that gun, and shoot it to establish an accuracy standard.
2. Pull the barrel and square it with the receiver and bolt face on a lathe or CNC.
3. Lap the lugs/recesses to get around 85%-90% contact to keep torque from backthrust to a minimum.
4. Re-install the barrel and check headspace, if not enough or if it's too much, pull the barrel and make the adjustments to get it right.
5. Re-crown the barrel.
6. Make sure the scope mounts are level and square to the receiver.
7. Tune the trigger to what you desire or to what's safe.
8. Bed the rifle to the stock.
9. Shoot it with the control load to see the improvements.

Here's what the website says:

How We Do It:
HCR’s Accurizing includes complete inspections of your:

Barrel and chamber with our Hawkeye bore scope
Locking lugs
Stock
Scope
Trigger

After a complete inspection of your rifle:

Aluminum Pillar and Glass Bed your action
Recrown the barrel
Clean and adjust the trigger
Ensure even locking lug contact if head space allows
Lap Scope Rings for Concentricity

Reading that tells me that you're getting a glassbed job, trigger job, and lapped scope rings for $400 (if the rifle will shoot less than a MOA afterwards) or for $300 if it doesn't meet the standard.

Contrast that with the work that a smith about 80 miles from me will charge:

Pillar bed    $45
Trigger job  $25
Re-crown   $25
Lap lugs, headspace, square and install barrel $105.
Mount scope and sight in  $15 (with your base and rings)
Refinish the entire barreled action $50-$150 depending on finish.

So for what you're going to pay a MINIMUM of $300 for, I can have done for $105, and for under $400 I can have twice as much work done.

[bigjeepman]

Here is a rifle from Hill Country that is for sale on our local internet classifieds. You can see the test target he said came back with the rifle. He is asking $1750.00. It will be interesting to see if it sells.


bjm

[kyelkhunter3006]

I'm sure that at that asking price, it's probably a full custom job by them, not just a factory gun that's accurized.  That stock looks like one of the molded-in-finish stocks from McMillan, so heck, that's a $500 stock by itself.  Not that any synthetic stock really adds value to a gun though.