Author Topic: New Duke 1 3/4 Offset Coilspring Traps: Any opinions on them (Read 2279 times)

coyote trapper1928 · « **on:** August 12, 2003, 10:07:35 AM »

Hi:

Bought a half dozen Duke 1 3/4 offset coilspring traps today from my local trapping supply dealer. I plan on using them for fox and coyote for the first 3 weeks of the season. Also bought the 4 coil beefer kits , but not sure if I will need them since I will be trapping during the first part of the season. I compared the Victor and the Duke side by side and the few differances that I was able to see are:

1. The Victor 1.75 offset has a beefier base and the chain is mounted in the center of the base instead of off to the side.

2. Took a good look at the jaws: The Duke 1 3/4 offset looks like it has
thicker jaws than on the victor coilspring trap.

3. The PRICE!!! The Duke traps were $17.00 less than the Victors.

Since I will be using cable stakes, I don't think that the chain being mounted off to the side will make any differance.

Thanks,

coyote trapper1928

Edge · « **Reply #1 on:** August 12, 2003, 11:32:18 AM »

The end chain placement is a little funky,IMHO,on other similarly chained traps I just drilled thru the existing hole in the base(or plug welded that one and went dead center.)
I am impressed with the new 1 3/4,I bought 4 doz to try out.As far as mods go,the only thing I'm doing is tig welding the frame/base intersection,and center swiveling with my own chain.(4 links #2,CP swivel,another 4 links and one more swivel.All of my traps have this chain configuration.

Edge

Wackyquacker · « **Reply #2 on:** August 12, 2003, 01:39:55 PM »

I held some of the dukes at the NTA; run your finger along the edge of the jaws ...I felt a bit of sharpness that may benefit from some smoothing with a file. I've not set unmodifies 1.75s of any type and would not select them as my primary coyote trap. If you start uping the springs pay close attention to the base plates. I do use a few fully modified 1.75s; they hold well. I always short chain these to the cables or cross stakes.

trappnman · « **Reply #3 on:** August 13, 2003, 03:25:56 AM »

An unmodifed 1.75, in 90% of the country, set right will hold any coyote out there.

They aren't the best coyote trap by any means- but they are more than up to the task.

O'Gorman says- and I agree with it 100% and say it myself- with small traps I don't get many losses- but I do get misses.

Biggest problem with the smaller traps is the trapper using the trap the same as a fully modifed #3. Won't work that way. Study the limitations of the trap- and think about it- and you wil lsee that the secret to success- the sliver bullet- with small traps is making the kill area ONLY the pan- and the majority of the pan at that.

This one "secret" means the difference between success and failure with 1.75s.

They are the trap I use most both in collaring and fur trapping. I have had maybe 4-5 pullouts over last 10 years with them. I'll take those %

RdFx · « **Reply #4 on:** August 13, 2003, 07:47:33 AM »

You said it all Steve with 175s and if one would think like you are mink trapping and you want that mink to put its little foot on yr small trap pan and you have 90 % of yr problems solved and applying it to canine trapping with the 175s.

trappnman · « **Reply #5 on:** August 13, 2003, 10:32:39 AM »

Thanks rdfx.

I want to make this clear- in no way am I implying that WQ can't set a coyote trap right. Obviously, since WQ says he has nevr set an unmodified 1.75.

What I meant, and all I meant, is that setting an unmodified 1.75 is different that setting bigger canine traps. You have to bed the trap with this in mind.

WQ still however wears funny clothes....

RdFx · « **Reply #6 on:** August 13, 2003, 01:00:31 PM »

Aha and WQ says i stood him up at NTA at Bloomington. Well everyone else saw me even MsCat and MissWiss too, shucks even those long legged cow girls too. Only reason WQ missed me is he got sooo looped at the Trapperman BBQ on the refreshments that Bill DUKE donated he couldnt recognize anyone. Notice he is still recovering as he hasnt made a coherant response :roll:

Edge · « **Reply #7 on:** August 13, 2003, 01:07:07 PM »

Hi guys,
So,T-man,would you say that welding the cross frame isn't prolly necessary?Even if I drill out the "spare" hole,or punch thru elsewhere?The existing weld on the cross frame looks like it had plenty of penetration,with or without an extree hole.
Normally I mod traps;but its just cuz I like to.Its fun.I'm sure my mods improve the trap,but this year my time is running short,heck whiz,its gone.I don't normally start trapping in july,and that has REALLY closed the gate.
Ultimately all my traps get the full mods,but based on your answer,I might leave this batch of Dukes alone for this season.I won't,however,say its your *fault* or anything if it turns bad.Well,not to your face....you're kind of a big guy ain't ya?LMAO!

Edge

PS See you guys in a couple weeks!

Edge · « **Reply #8 on:** August 13, 2003, 01:09:11 PM »

RdFx,
Were you in a cowboy hat?Thought I recognized you from Kross,light colored hair and print shirt @ yottey's booth?

Edge

RdFx · « **Reply #9 on:** August 13, 2003, 01:27:23 PM »

Yep Edge you done saw me and now my disguise is out LOL. Yea Yotteys Camp was a good place to be as vittals were there all the time. Sat nite there was a roast turkey, deep fried tomatoes and other veggies. Home made ice cream in vanilla, one gallon and one and a half gallons of chocolate.. deep fried qtrd tators and the list goes on with various flavors of pop a top brews and also a bushel of nectarines (good thing the wasps werent out ) LOL

Wackyquacker · « **Reply #10 on:** August 13, 2003, 02:18:54 PM »

I'm a not knowin what all the hub bubs about. :eek: I've caught bigger stuff (four-legged that is) in 1.75s than most. I've just never owned nor do I have immediate plans to purchase un-modified (or modified) 1.75s for my coyote / cat lines.

I would like to make it clear, for certain, that if a fellow is so inclined to make the 1.75 or the 1.65 their primary trap for coyotes by God they'll work. I'm not among those. I'll also say that in my limited experience in setting the wee traps I can't honestly recall a great increase in misses; some maybe but not bunches. While Im in this mode I didnt see anything grossly amiss on the Duke traps; just a bit of a rough edge and youll get that from time to time on any trap. I responded to 1928 cause I wasnt for sure that ole T-man didnt have his head still stuck down in a So. Dak. Gopher hole :-D :-D and I wasnt bad mouthin those itty bitty traps. :?

Now, big traps are the choice of many (most?) western trappers for a couple of reasons; they simply have a bigger target area and most of us spend a considerable amount of time chasing after cats, not coon and those over grown weasels what need running water to live. Im not gonna make the argument that you cant catch our big footed cats with wee traps. Ill say this, however, when your after big $ cats or coyotes you HAVE to catch, a bigger target area just makes a lot of sense. Also, an un-modified wee trap MAY fail more often with extended check intervals sometimes a fellow just cant get around.

What in the devil is different in setting (I take it you meant bedding and guiding) a four coiled, base plated, center swiveled, laminated, offset 1.75 from setting a factory issue jobber? For that matter what is the big deal about setting / bedding a wee trap over a good one? :wink: All I can tell is your guiding the foot to a smaller area...no biggybedded is just like bein pregnant; you are or your not! And T-man why you thankin RdFx? All he was doin was stirring the pot. Did you hear how he stood me up?

Finally, I hear tell that T-man wears thong underwear!

Boggy theyre pickin on me again!

RdFx · « **Reply #11 on:** August 13, 2003, 02:27:51 PM »

Yep bog does were thongs ; one over each shoulder to hold up his britches :roll: . At anyhow or anyrate we werent talking about bedding a 175( are you still inebriated WQ? :eek: ) Guiding, gently guideing the canines paw in the appropriate place just like you do crudely though i might add with yr cats but with FINESS with yotes :grin: . Shucks i got to go stir some of my five gallon pails of elixer in the fur shed , whew, wind must have changed :shock:

Wackyquacker · « **Reply #12 on:** August 13, 2003, 02:28:39 PM »

Listen hear RdFx, I resemble that remark.

I only endulge when I'm by myself or with some one. See what I tell ya all he was avoidin me...how selse he know I was sippin Boggy's pepsi? :eek:

What in Gods name were you doin hiddin under a cowboy's hat? You invited me to that shindig...you even posted it right here. Now you let it be knowin that you were tryin to look like a cowboy...guess it's your dream to be like the western trappers. :-D

RdFx · « **Reply #13 on:** August 13, 2003, 02:41:00 PM »

Now everyone knows why i wear that western hat , even ACE. I do this in respect of everyone out in the sun so they dont get blinded by the sun bouncing off my beautiful shiny head!. Now when i was putting bracelets on those Montana yotes i had to hide my head from sending morse code flashes to the yotes hiding up in the hills by Ted Turners ranch. Those dang pet wolves Teds got roaming his ranch push the yotes down to me which i duly appreciate.

Oh yea iffen i remember right Bog drinks coffee not that swill call pepsi. Heck Bogs blood is coffee and even his urine looks like meat fed fox pea LOL. Shucks i dont have to be like those western trappers cause i is the Silvered RdFx

trappnman · « **Reply #14 on:** August 13, 2003, 02:41:42 PM »

WQ- In no way am I saying the 1.75 is the best, or even near the best coyote trap.

What I am saying- is that my #1 incedentals are coon (which at the price MN coon are going for, I want) and dogs/domestic cats. Thats a fact of life.

So far- I have not found a better trap to handle all 3 situations. I have and am experimenting with Bridger #2- and except for the reoccuring foot damage (tests are still underway) it is a very nice trap Fully modified by Gerald.

So how do you set em differnt? Easy- you need to have a coyotes full foot on the pan before firing- which means packing the inside and outside of the jaws up to thew pan so it is rock solid- that is- if the coyore has 50% of his foot on the panm- the trap won't fire. Because 50% pf the foot on the pan means at least 1/4 of it is outside the jaws- and that means misses and that means pullouts. Absoluetly little or no extended pan cover.

If you et T & PC- I have a recent article explaining what I mean.

Bogmaster · « **Reply #15 on:** August 13, 2003, 03:47:48 PM »

Steve,good to see you made it back from the 'big bike bash".If you had been in illinois friday evening you could have seen :wacky,his son, Mac the Diver,Illinois busy beaver and his wonderful wife--penny trying to help me keep all my wares from getting wet.
Rdfx I do indeed consume pepsi in large amounts.But when it is hot,I have a pepsi with my coffee.I could'nt believe, that a trappers convention would not have coffee for sale after breakfast on thursday.None was available on Sunday morning.
Now I am lined up to do demos in several states over the next few weeks, and I have already been contacted to do one at the FTA convention next year in Michigan.I am going to set up an agreement--no coffee--no demo.How can a sane man function without the benefit of "Gods nectar"

?
Sorry to stray so far from the #1 3/4 post. Tom

trappnman · « **Reply #16 on:** August 13, 2003, 04:00:54 PM »

That would have been fun. Apparently RdFx stood everone up? LOL

Strayed ? Heck Tom, you never got close to 1.75w ROFLMAO

cya in Martquette

Edge · « **Reply #17 on:** August 13, 2003, 04:47:27 PM »

I get the bedding/guiding deal;makes sense.Now,as for the skipped over question(weld/no weld cross frame)I took a look at the weld that Duke put on.At first glance,it looks like a pin(spot) weld.I was wondering how they got such a huge signature on the back(penetration)from a pin weld.Answer,they didn't.
Its actually a "plug" weld,welding thru a hole in the cross frame to the baseplate.I torqued the little darling a pretty good bit and no bend or crack.
That being said;I'd still like an opinion or two from the TMan(or others who use this trap.)

RdFx,I need a cowboy hat,the kind that you bend down in front and up on the sides...where do ya get that kind?

Bog,Hello,are ya countin the days?????????Unfortunately I've got another list;no money,but a list.

WQ,I WANT to look like a western trapper;I'm 5'5" tall and 200 lbs...anything would help.

Edge

Bogmaster · « **Reply #18 on:** August 13, 2003, 05:14:35 PM »

Scott, send me the list soon. I am making a run shortly.Still unloading from NTA. Tom

trappnman · « **Reply #19 on:** August 14, 2003, 12:59:57 AM »

All I can say is that I have never had a Duke trap where the frame got bowed and the jaws became distorted.

Wackyquacker · « **Reply #20 on:** August 14, 2003, 04:59:17 AM »

T-man never had a twisted Duke because he stakes em short...no chance for the critter to lunge. This means cross staking or cable anchors to stop pumping. (I threw that in for ya "T" :-) )

I'll say this I have had both coyotes and cats twist #3 monty dogless but they were on 18" or so chains (gotta mention that this is not a very frequent happening). Think on it; the bigger the jaws the more leverage and the longer base plates the more flex, all add up to more chance for tweaks, twists, pops and bends. I've become fond of base plating which stops this. I haven't done a study but I'll bet the new models of smaller traps have stronger bases than the older types.

Anyhow, seems like we humans have to be on a side (Yankees vs Mets, Wee Traps vs Big ones). It is for this reason that we need to re-hash the pros and cons on this and other issues every so often. I dont' see it that way. Listen, read, experiment and / or otherwise figure what works best for you and go for it.

I just read some place that you can chew proof (coon) the larger traps by adding another wire to the jaws. I suppose you will increase drag etc just like laminations but...?

Now on to T-man (Thong Man?

) I did read an article in T&PC written by a guy named Gappa...hell sounds just like you! Some one, some where, was being off the wall about the contents of this article and a number of fellows, myself included, pointed out that it was a good article. Just goes ta show ya that no good deed goes unpunished. :cry:

Edge try for the "Haus" look maybe? :lol:

RdFx how about speed dipping your shiny spot? Black for night, Brown for plowed ground and White for the winter.

Boggy, next time have Coke preferably sugar free!

RdFx · « **Reply #21 on:** August 14, 2003, 06:30:51 AM »

Naw WC i prefer the old method of sumac berries or oak bark as it is natural vs the petroleum products LOL.

trappnman · « **Reply #22 on:** August 14, 2003, 09:09:15 AM »

I kind of like the idea of color coding the F-1 to "shiny spots" LOL

If coyotes were my only concern I would no doubt be using bigger iron. I know and agree with all of the reasons for using them. However....

Very true- I do use short (12") chains and double stake. Lunging is not a concern.

I'm guessing some one, some where doesn't have a clue about using small traps on coyotes. Thanks for your support. :grin:

Edge · « **Reply #23 on:** August 14, 2003, 11:22:54 AM »

Well,thanks for the replies guys(and RdFx,I got your PM,but don'tm know how to use that function,Bog sent me one too,but I don't know how to answer?)
I took the plunge last night and really abused a 1 3/4.I did get the frame to bend,but WAY beyond any coyote anywhere.These are going out on the line stock(except for the chain.)
Its nice to be pumped about some new iron,its been a while since I've adopted any new traps in numbers.I have no fear about these traps anymore,if something changes I'll let you know.

Edge

PS Whats a "Haus"?I'm going for the lean/lanky cowboy look......

Wackyquacker · « **Reply #24 on:** August 14, 2003, 12:13:56 PM »

Edge, you sure must grow em awfully short and round in your parts :shock: ; to think that at 5.5 feet and 200 lbs you're lean and lanky :-D :-D :-D

Haus as in Haus Cartwright from Bonanza, or are you still in swadling clothes and don't know that show?

Stake them Wee traps short and swivel the devil out of them.

On those PMs you should just be able to hit the REPLY button and go to typing...then hit submit.

RdFx · « **Reply #25 on:** August 14, 2003, 12:17:57 PM »

Yep Edge and i are angus and whiteface ranch hands. So WC watch what you all say or we will stretch ya out like i used to do calf roping LOL. Dang dont think i could jump off a horse anymore, fall yea , jump NO. LOL

Wackyquacker · « **Reply #26 on:** August 14, 2003, 12:28:00 PM »

So which one of you two is the whitefaced ranch hand? :?

Some day (could have been last week if you'd showed up) I'll tell ya about jumpin downed timber with / on a mule. :oops:

The difference between ropin me and a cow is simple a cow doesn't shoot back :-)

Edge · « **Reply #27 on:** August 14, 2003, 12:46:03 PM »

WQ,Thats the look I'm GOING for.....not the look I have....I'm thinkin maybe a few of those plug-in western shirts,nice boots and hat....and Viola....lean and lanky........as it is,if a shirt fits my shoulers,I gotta tuck it into my socks.........
I've worked many farms but little beef(a few charlay.simental)rode horses(necessary evil;don't like em)dogfood and glue as far as ZI'm concerned,MULES on the other hand are smart,fast enough for me,even tempered,and won't run or eat til they die.
Hoss,man,Hoss Cartwright,dang right I remember that show,if that stuff was still on,I'd watch TV;Gunsmoke,High Chapparal,the Virginian,the Rifleman,good stuff.
Short chained,yep,8 links,swiveled at the trap,mid-chain and the end.Don't plan to grapple these........
And I am up to speed on PM'ing(so to speak)tanx for da tips.......

Edge