Need some input on home defense shotguns.

[swordfish]

I'm looking to get a good home defense shotgun. There are a lot of them out there, what are your opinions on one that is a good deal for the money. Reliability is obviously a major issue and wouldn't consider something that isn't reliable.

Thanks in advance for you opinions.

[FLNT4EVR]

I purchased a NEF ,H&R  Pardner Protector, 12 ga  home defense pump shotgun. It is a chinese knock off of the Remington 870. It did all I asked of it when I put it thru it's paces. The gun will hold 5 -3 inch or 6-   2 3/4 inch shells.Do a search and you will find my report which I posted here.It was under $200. I do not advocate buying Chinese  made products when American  products are available, but things being what they are, it was all I could afford.

[Graybeard]

I'm going to be watching the responses to this one myself. I've been toying with getting a defense specific house gun myself but have not yet taken the plunge. I have Remington guns both pump and semi auto but they are hunting guns not defense specific. They will work no doubt but are not ideally suited to the task.

I came real close to getting a Mossberg pump a short while back that was specifically set up for a defense shotgun. I hesitated as much due to the failures of Mossbergs I've seen on the skeet range as anything. Still they are perhaps the most commonly used out there and I do believe our military uses a bunch of them.

[Bugflipper]

 I guess mine is there to arm the bad guy when he breaks into the house. I use it for coyotes when the dog wakes me up. Wish I could use it on those viscous deer that attack my garden. It's just at the back door, a simple rig with ghost ring, carried it on patrol. The little guy is a hide away in the kitchen. Honestly your hunting shotgun is the best one to have. You know how it swings, points and shoots. If you don't like the capacity just add an extension to the magazine tube.

[Graybeard]

What the heck is shorty? What's the shell capacity of the magazine? I assume it requires the $200 tax being that short?

What about a double rather than the pump most think of for such duty? Back when I got involved in CAS for a while I kept a SxS double handy even tho it was a 26" that could do double duty as a hunting gun. I've been quite tempted by a coach gun to keep here in my office and maybe even near the bed.

Still I've used pump guns since the first one I used as a boy which was my grand dad's old J. C. Higgins that I still have. I made the switch to Remington 870s when I bought my first shotgun and since then have owned a bunch of them in gauges from .410 thru 12 skipping only the 16 ga. The only draw back I see to my 870 hunting gun is the longer barrel on it which is a bit unweildy for inside the house use. I do have an old barrel someone cut off many long years ago to just barely over legal minimum that might work on it. I did have it on one with a cut off stock many years ago for my oldest son when he was still a boy. He's passed 40 now so it was a long time ago the last time that snub nose barrel was on a shotgun.

[John R.]

Check out the Remington Home Defense shotgun. It comes with a black synthectic stock, 18-1/2" bbl., 8 rd. capacity for $379.00. You may find it cheaper if you look. I held one the other day at my buddys gunshop, it's a nice package.

[Default]

Well when Bill (grey beard ) asked us what optics for his new rifle i had to recommend what our boys and girls in uniform have tested in battle .. So you can never go wrong with a Remington 870 pump .... The Mossberg 500 or 590 are other very good choices , Though i admit i will always have a sweet spot in my heart for the winchester line of shotguns ( my very first shottie was a winnie 1300 defender (and a squirrel slaying son of a gun) The winchester are a good shottie too..

 Now lets break this down shall we ... Your rems and wins are a little more versitile to the mossberg in that the mossbergs cant add a tube extension to raise load capacity , this is a big plus to me  ... My present winchester model 12  12ga  30" bbl shotgun is an 11 round shotgun at the moment 10 in tube plus one .... I know I knoooww not the short to the point entry or home defense shotgun you might think old default to have hahahaha but i like it for the make shift crutch it becomes should i get wounded   I also have a fold over the top pistol griped stock for it too  
 The aguila ammo company makes a mini buck shot shell that is i believe only 1 1/2 " long that hold 4 #1 bucks and 6 #4 bucks next to no recoil or report and i can hold i think it was 18 in my shotgun ...
 Remmie also benefits from this process and of course there are more tube lenght options then the +5 that i have .. your wins and rems can run you around $200 to $400 depending on used or new ... I havent priced winchesters in a while so they may lean higher then my quote on price..... And of course there is a ton of tactical and tactikool items for all three shotguns in mention so more useful then others ..
 
Back to the mossberg ,While you dont get the option of having factory 5 rounder becoming a 10 +1 rounder on a whim ... You do get a tried and true no bs war dog shes not all browning deep blued or super tight , she wont run you $700 new or used but what she will do is come with all the afore mentioned for a modest $120 to $200 dollars used and go bang every time mud or shine .. it'll cost a little more if you want their newest tactical door knocker model that will run you in the $400 range  .... i have basic 500 sitting down at my local shop for $129 used in good condition with a 28" bbl that i would have trimmed to 20" should i decide i want to go get it this friday ( im considering it heavily)

  Now the other shotgun i keep in the house is a true defense of the home shotgun i picked up for my other half mainly but wouldnt think twice to grab it and my 357 should someone start kicking in my door ...SxS ( side by side ) double barrel 12 ga stage coach gun with 20" tubes  ... In my quest for knowledge about the many many aspects of defensive tactics and weapon choice too many to list nor mention ... I have had a few respected writers that have touched on a very important subject ( no dont misunderstand me , I believe you should not carry a weapon you dont intend to use .. and dont pull and point unless you are going to shoot) That subject in question is fear... We have used it since the dawn of man in many forms ... and its changed over the centuries as man has changed and yet still stayed the same ... There is nothing that commands respect and fear quite like that unique sound of a shottie  chuuuchunking in a buckshot shell ...this is why i prefer pump actions.. I think we know you dont even have to own a shotgun to know that sound ... and in the dark, in a foriegn house your not supossed to be in ... That sound is death and a foe knows that..... Sight is a key tool as well, lawmen have known this since the days of the six gun ... Looking down the gapping maw of a small, mid or big bore revolver is something i dont ever want to see in a bad situation ,Five holes staring at me and letting me see what is loaded up for the job no less .. The double barrel shotgun is the same except the gapping maws are much more pronounced and simplicity is on the users side.. Safety off and two triggers worth of "OH yeah you messed up" ...but most  ... And i mean Most important about a good shotgun for defense is the same as i have told countless friends aquintances and young people seeking me out for knowledge on a defensive choice , be it thier first buy or thier next one .... A shotgun is in my opinion is the perfect tool ... Intimidating as HELL ,by sight and sound ... a good 98 lumien light and Po0f* they are blind ,identified friend or foe and armed or not ... You can use it in more situations then i care to mention hunting to defense etc. and the only tool you can take any species of animal on this planet with ..And i do mean ANY (chipmunk to white whale  and anything in between)
  The bird loads for small game wont penetrate through to layers of sheet rock but 7 yards to a hallway intruder !???!! they havent made a doctor yet to fix all that damage ,hits like a solid load then disperses into the body like a fragmentation round ... follow that up with your buck shot of choice

  In the end of this long winded and probably over stating the obvious post ......... Get a good reputable shotgun ... Any of the big three i mentioned should be able to do anything you could ever ask of a weapon that we have used in ever war this country has ever fought ...And it makes a damn good club too


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                             P.S. Dont forget the ammo  

[Default]

Yeah Bill thats a shotgun pistol  AOW shottie ... Good friend that was a class 3 dealer had them  i know it makes me smile too hahah

 Think if i remember right it was 3 in the tube ... maybe 3 rounds over all ,something like that..Dirty Harry's dream gun

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       After thought here ... I havent found a person that i know into guns like we all are that has ever had a complaint or failure with the mossbergs ..... Hmmm might have to search out more info about that .... Do know though ... I went to dove camp with my old man and friends two years back and since i was flying in i didnt want to mess with bringin my own so dad let borrow his plastic butt plated mossberg 500 loaner and after 3 days a 700 rounds ( nope no cleaning) a shoulder that felt like jello and tons of dove .... I believe that old mossy bastard would have gone another 700
 never had a hiccup ... never want to shoot that particular shotgun ever again either hahahahaa

[Graybeard]

Mossberg is now making a home defense shotgun with an extended mag and even a vented barrel hood thing. I'm not sure the capacity but I have been seeing them on shelves lately. They also come with fiber optic sights on them.

I've been into shooting skeet, trap and sporting clays for a great many years since back in the early to mid 70s I believe. I've spent a lot of time on the shooting ranges for them.

The one given at such range is this: If folks come out with Winchester pumps the 1200 and 1300 I believe are the models they will have multiple failures to feed about every round and if they come out with Mossbergs the gun will quit on them before they finish shooting. I've seen it so many times I have just come to expect it. Now it might only be that the folks shooting them are so non serious about their shooting they don't take good care of them but for whatever reason the Win 1200/1300 guns fail to feed regularly and the Mossbergs break while shooting.

I've never seen an 870 break on anyone while shooting but admit that the Express guns I've personally owned sure have had a lot of failures to feed for me.

[Default]

Well im glad you chimed in there Bill with this info ... I havent been able to kill one of mine ..But its important that people know that they can be, Wouldnt want to mislead someone.

  And like wise i havent seen a remmie give up the ghost on friends using them in our many outings to skeet shoot..


    I guess theres your answer Sword , Get the Rem 870           Or maybe a good SxS  maybe those old stage coachmen were onto something there 

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[SHOOTALL]

i like/have a rem 870 police mag. with 8 round mag.
on the 12 ga. gun had front sight replaced with a larger bead . at times have put a strip of white tape on end of bbl .to see it better in low light . keep 5 rounds in gun and five in side saddle .

[AtlLaw]

I found an 18.5 inch barrel for my Mossberg 835 3.5 inch mag turkey gun.  After turkey season is over I switch the barrels and add a three round extension to the magazine tube.  Efficient use of available equipment I says!   

Like Bill I was worried about the reliability factor on the Mossbergs, especially the 835, having heard bad things.  Mine has never given me any trouble though.

[Bugflipper]

 Yeah just an 870. It's a serbu super shorty made down in Tampa. Got to have a stamp only $5 for AOW instead of $200 for SBR. Fun Little guy to shoot, takes 2 and 1 in pipe. 24" pattern at 5 yards with a penny glued to shell.
 Dad uses an old Fox 16 double that was chopped down to 22" before he bought it.  It handles very nice. I used to use it as a close rabbit gun when I was little.
 All of the Federal Agencies are going with the benelli nova pump in tactical model with ghost ring sights. It kicks like a mule though, if anyone tries them I rec comend the optional recoil reducer and bracket.

[Troyboy]

I have a mossberg and i'd recommend it any day time or place. Price, goodies and reliability

[swordfish]

After some fantastic input I've been on an internet search and found this.

It's a Mossberg 500 Cruiser. What do you think?
I'm not sold on it yet as I have read your posts about possible questionable reliability.
There also looks like there are many possible accessories that can be added. Don't think I'll need them, but it's good to know they are there if I choose.

[Graybeard]

Just back from the gun shop and did some looking around. They had a Mossberg like the one you show but with a buttstock not the handgrip. I've done a LOT of shotgunning and can see no way I'd have one of those handgrip things on one of mine. I want a real buttstock.


I picked up a new Browning BPS with short barrel and seven shot magazine for half price because it was scratched on the side of receiver. I got it for less than a Mossberg would have cost.

He had an Armalite AR15 lower in the counter I managed to get out the door with for only $220 out of pocket. It's a complete lower as far as I can tell and just needs the upper assembly to make it a complete gun.

[AtlLaw]

He had an Armalite AR15 lower in the counter I managed to get out the door with for only $220 out of pocket. It's a complete lower as far as I can tell and just needs the upper assembly to make it a complete gun.

Ah the joys of a modular design!     Now just find any one (or more) of the upper(s) that trips your trigger and your set to go!  I've got an A1, RRA lower - I put together the upper, and a Colt Blue Box A2 Match Target.  Been thinking about an M4orgery flat top upper for a long time but avoided the urge so far!     I'm saving the 3-4 K of Guat. 5.56 I've got left for the revolution... 

[Default]

Congrats Bill .... i have been needing to get off my hump and get a couple stripped lowers ... but work has yanked all over time from everyone and salary people took a 5% pay cut to keep from having to lay people off ........So they arent making it easy on me 

 But hey im not on the bread lines yet , so there is always some good news right ?? Might part ways with a hunting rifle soon to get while the gettings there to be got..
 
   And sword . You have plenty of good options for folding pistol grip stocks for a mossberg.. I like bill favor a stock ,while i do know the compact of the pistol griped shottie has its place, the stocked or folding stocked is just a little more versitile.. Think mossberg is also offering that model with a pistol griped butt stock with the speed feed feature ..
 The one you posted the pic of is their door knocker model ... thats why there is a strap on the forearm pump, All the better for swiss cheese'n door hinges and dead bolts



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[mcwoodduck]

As far as a home defence scatter gun.
I have my three gun 870 that has the collapsable AR style stock.  Only because someone else put it on and I saw it in the used rack.
I did want a pistol grip but with a stock.  I have never been able to shoot the pistol grip only guns with any real accuracy and forget multiple rounds. they are all over the globe, forget the map even at close ranges.  I wanted the pistol grip because it us easier to reload and move.  Shuck one in the tube and you are ready with the pistol grip and can be loading with the other for three gun.  mine has a side saddle of 6 or 7 rounds as well.  i like the idea of a home gun to have something to hold spare shells to it.  If something goes bump in the night you are not going ot put on your hunting clothes or combat vest and go look.  You may have on slippers and having ammo with the gun to either retreat or to move to the kids room to get them or use it as the safe room is a good idea.  
Any of your hunting guns will work.  If it is a pump or auto a short barrel could easily be purchased or made. I say short only becasue it is easier to swing in the house and does not project around coroners or give anyone leverage to take it away.  Nothing fancy is needed.
As far as a side by side or over and under it could e used as well.  either with a 26" barrel has the same over all lenght as a pump or auto with a 20".  I have a friend, he is the one that got me to think of a revolver as a house gun (no springs and it does not care if it is loaded or not and can sit for years on end with ammo and be fine)  He built up his Home scatter gun that is an old side by side he cut down to 20" added trijicon pistol sights.  Had the solid rib dove tailed for the sights and had a M1913 rail screwed into the bottom rib.  The rail on the bottom has a wepons light and pressure switch.  The stock has a cuff with 6 rounds on it.  4 1 1/8 oz #7.5's to match what is in the chamers and 2 rounds of 00 buck.  Untill the cowboy action guys came along Side By sides like the 311 stevens were cheap and easy to hack and wack up and reliable.  It is short and lite and easy to manuver in the house.  I think the sights and the light cost him more than the 175 shot gun did and the 100 bucks to have the barrels cut and the sights and rail added.  Before he had the sights and the light mounted he had a big Mag light duct taped under the barrels with a piece of wood to make the light level.  the switch was on the bottom so he could turn it on.  He saw it in a book about tiger hunters.  He had the other stuff done when I made fun of it and called it ugly.  But if it going to live in the bedroom closet who cares what it looks like as long as it goes bang when needed and where aimed.

[swordfish]

Dang there is a lota knowledgeable input, you guys rock!
Just want to explain my particular situation, as there seems to be a debate about pistol grip shotguns.
First of all I have hunting shotguns, and these are the reasons I don't want to use them. I want something that will be next to my bedside without my wife having to look at it everytime she goes to bed, she doesn't mind guns, believe me I have plenty, but doesn't like the house to look like a war zone, so I try to keep them all concealed and not in plain site, or in the safe if not used as self defense. Also I do not have a large residence and the longest shot at an intruder would only be a max of 25 ft. there are a lot of tight corners, hall ways, and a stair well. Accuracy at any distance over 20-25 ft. is not an issue. Also it would be a night weapon when the lights in the house are out. Most often very dark.  I also live in Florida, and hurricane blackouts can last weeks. When all the city lights are out it is pitch black at night, and looters are a reality. Night sights are great, but if you can't see the target they are useless. In the daylight I prefer my hand guns. For these reasons I thought a non-shouldering weapon is best in my particular situation. I could always put a folding stock on it. I thought of the Remington 870 in tactical versions with folding stock, as an option but it's more expensive. I don't want to put $600-$700 into a weapon that will get minimal use except for the occasional trip to the range to keep familiar with it.
I'm wrong in my thinking?

[Graybeard]

I'm wrong in my thinking?

Personally I believe you are but then that's just me.

Here is the way I look at it. This gun is for defense of you, your home and your family. Is money REALLY the most important factor when you look at it that way? How much it gets used to me is totally immaterial and personally I hope nothing I have for defensive use ever gets used for its intended purpose. Still I want to use it in practice enough to be sure I'm completely familiar and ready to use it if/when the time comes it's needed for its main purpose in life.

How much money I tie up in a defensive arm is only money well spent in my opinion if it helps make us safer and more secure. That its main purpose in life is to set unnoticed hopefully forever until that moment of truth comes when it is needed doesn't factor into how much I'll spend on it.

Congrats Bill .... i have been needing to get off my hump and get a couple stripped lowers ...

As unfamiliar as I am with these things I'd have been leery of getting a stripped lower. This one is complete with everything other than a magazine I think. It is supposed to be ready to remove the pins drop in an uppper and slap a mag in and be ready.

[Bugflipper]

Swordfish I advise against pg as well. I've seen a lot of guys fail to qualify with them. Add to that a high stress environment and it could be a real problem. Up close around corners you don't need to hug a wall. Need to be on the far wall and slice the pie when clearing so you wont get disarmed or tangled up by bad guy. The only effective training I've had with a pg is to place the grip dead center of the chest. Theoretically where ever your body is pointed you are going to hit in the general area. I didn't like it personally, but may work for someone else. What ever you get put a case of bird shot through it up close and you wont have anything to worry about.
Good Luck                                                          

[Bigeasy]

My 2 cents:

The Remington 870.  You will not find a more reliable repeating shotgun. Period. 

For home use, I like the synthetic stock, extended magazine model, with a pad activated flashlite mounted.  I don't care for the folding / pistol grip models.  I feel I have more speed and control with a stock under my arm.  Also makes it harder to take away in a confined space, and allows for more control if you have to use weapon retention techniques.

In a home, Birdshot is the way to go.  Deadly at close range.  Problem with buck shot is it will penetrate several sheetrock walls with enough energy to endanger family or neighbors.  My gun is set up with 2 3/4 high brass #6 pheasant loads, along with 6 more rifled slug shells on a butstock carrier.  Large aperture peep sights mounted.

Larry

[Bugflipper]

GB check out model 1 sales for reference on uppers. Sorry can't link on psp. What about different caliber you already have three in the same.

[Default]

yeah Bill i would like to just go with a couple complete lower to save time , but like i mentioned the JOB is doing what they can to not have a layoff .. So that leaves me with the option of buy one complete lower for $225 + shipping and FFL charge or buy two stripped lowers for the same price + shipping and only one FFL charge for the same price heh ... And i hear you about messing with putting it together yourself  wasnt much fun my first time ... but like alot of things in this life , It gets better with time ...


 And Sword ??  You still havent got that shottie yet ??

   Haahaha ... Be sure to let us know what you go with... And one other note ,If you commit to the pistol griped models out there please .... And i do mean Please ... be mindful of where you have behind the shotgun before you fire it !  

 My first pistol griped whinchester almost took my brother in laws grill out ,and i say almost only because i looked up from loading the mags for the pistol to see him aiming the dang thing with a 3" loaded in such a way that the recoil would have helped him out of his pesky eye teeth should i not have told him to STOP!!!!! heh
 Actually saw a youtube video of someone out with buddies that did that very thing and  Yeeeeaaahhhh   definately sucked to be him...
   So just a good tip to pass along for safe shooting and zero dental emergencies 


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[Graybeard]

GB check out model 1 sales for reference on uppers. Sorry can't link on psp. What about different caliber you already have three in the same.

I googled "Model 1 Sales" and got lots of hits but all led to other forum sites like this where they are discussed. I never did find a website for the company tho. What I did find is that my idea of a "complete upper" and the idea of other folks must not be quite the same.

I was assuming it would be everything including the barrel, fore arm and all needed to just add to my lower to make a complete rifle. I reckon not.

Another caliber is a possibility. I'll post another thread to discuss that rather than hi-jack this thread any further.

[mannyrock]

Well Golly,

   Almost all of you guys are recommending a pump shotgun.  :-)

   I have two words for you: SHORT STOKE.

   In a night encounter, under extreme stress, in the small spaces of a home, the odds of a short stroke are very large.

  My recommendation:  Get a Beretta or Benelli semi-auto, with a 20 inch barrel.

  The Berettas have been tested time and time again to shoot 10,000 rounds, without a single jam.  I don't know about the Benelli, but I would bet it is similar.

 Just my opinion.

Mannyrock

[darrell8937]

Here is my old Remmy 870. She is time tested as she served proudly on many duck and goose hunts up here in Maine! Though not the waterfowl capitial of the world it offers good hunting from time to time. Anyways. I would avoid the newer remmys with the key.  just one more thing to think about. No matter what you get you need to test it thourgly. I have seen some remingtons that would not cycly. A friend had on that you had to kick the charging handle to open it. WTH.... we swapped out parts from other 870's .. scratch our heads,, stood on one foot and sold it and got one that worked.  no matter what gun it is ,, weather a 100 beater to a 3,000 heirloom, for defence it must work period.. My 870 is a mutt for sure. a Parkerized exspress Magnum.. reciever, 20 inch barrell with single bead. a two round extension from Remington(these ar pricey but all steel. Hell,, I even made the but pad. Kinda sort of!!

http://s37.photobucket.com/albums/e97/darrell8937/?action-view&current=870.jpg

Ps. My cat defends against spiders, mice, moths, bees, hornets, birds. but leave the rest to me.

[darrell8937]

PS. ON the Benilles..  a friend of mine and his father went to benellis,,,,,  and the next year were shooting Remington 1100's..Hummm. sorry no details.. ask them and the swear!...They wern't to happy....(duck hunters)They live to hunt)

[darrell8937]

Oh yea,, One great thing about a shotgun for home defence,  If you forgot to load it, left the safety on, could not rember how to use it a panic, whatever, you still have mans oldest and most reliable and instinctive weapon, the "Club" don't forget that.  In a home invasion. you go to get "mad dog mean!" Just be cautious of overpenetration.. "That is another subject!"