Author Topic: "accidental discharge" warning  (Read 950 times)

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Offline montveil

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"accidental discharge" warning
« on: November 21, 2008, 05:50:42 AM »
"accidental discharge" warning
Realizing that there is no such thing as an accidental discharge, only an action that should have been prevented.
The other day I was navigating through brush to my stand with my hands full of "stuff", my CVA Optima ML loaded and primed, un-cocked and slung over my shoulder.
Then BANG- what the heck happened? the rifle went off.
CONCLUSION: I theorized that somehow the hammer got caught on a piece of brush, clothing, necessary bag and partially cocked and released and fired.
I verified later with several primers that such can easily happen.
A WARNING NOT TO PRIME YOUR FIREARM UNTIL YOU ARE ON YOUR STAND OR ACTIVELY HUNTING WITH THE FIREARM IN THE READY POSITION.

THE "UN-COCKED" HAMMER IS NOT A SAFETY UNDER SOME CONDITIONS
MONTVEIL IN THE NC MOUNTAINS

Offline TribReady

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Re: "accidental discharge" warning
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2008, 06:03:55 AM »
Holy Smokes!  Your lucky when you think about it.  That must have totally scared the crap out of you.

Excellent post and reminder for all of us!
A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have. -Thomas Jefferson


...if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.  -2 Chronicles 7:14

Offline Busta

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Re: "accidental discharge" warning
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2008, 06:25:58 AM »
First, let me say, I am glad that nobody got hurt!

Thanks for the warning, but doesn't the Optima have a transfer bar safety like the H&R/NEF does? On my Huntsman or Sidekicks you not only have to cock the hammer, but you have to be pulling (and holding) the trigger back. Same thing on my Ruger Handguns.

I know that some of the manufacturers employ a rebounding hammer, thinking the T/C Omega and some of the Traditions. I just thought that CVA would also incorporated some type of safety device in theirs too?

Sounds to me like there might be something wrong with that hammer/trigger mechanism??? I would definately let CVA know about this situation.

Your WARNING which I will quote, is VERY sound advice!

Quote
A WARNING NOT TO PRIME YOUR FIREARM UNTIL YOU ARE ON YOUR STAND OR ACTIVELY HUNTING WITH THE FIREARM IN THE READY POSITION.
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Offline Keith Lewis

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Re: "accidental discharge" warning
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2008, 06:49:34 AM »
As I posted on another site: The Optima Elite that I have does in fact have a transfer bar design and there is no way the hammer dropping without the trigger pulled will make the firing pin protrude from the breechface. I double checked it and the trigger must be pulled well back to get the hammer to contact the firing pin. Even though the initial report is for a standard Optima (not the Optima Elite) I do not believe that the design would be any different. The rifle in question needs to be sent back to CVA for repair.  I also agree that the comment about carrying a primed rifle while not on stand is not a safe practice.

Offline DEACONLLB

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Re: "accidental discharge" warning
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2008, 07:38:50 AM »
I bought a CVA inline 209 mag 45 cal at the last gun show was new in package and it came with a vcr tape on how to load and use your cva and one point made was never never prime a loaded muzzle loader untill you are in blind and ready to shoot. One other point was that in some states just having powder an bullet in gun ready for primer is considered a loaded gun. We all need to be very carefull when handeling a firearm. when someone hands me a firearm even at gun shows the first thing I always do is check to see it is not loaded. We have had two unloaded guns go off at Tulsa gun shows so we can never be too carefull.
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Offline montveil

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Re: "accidental discharge" warning
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2008, 10:16:51 AM »
Correct on the transfer bar which will negate firing IF the down hammer is struck.

 BUT if the hammer is NOT drawn to full draw where the sear is engaged and released it will fire from a partial cock and the transfer bar will function to fire.

Yes,  It did scare the crap out of me, especially since there are houses with in 500 yards of where I was located. Fortunately the muzzle was luckily pointed in a benign position
MONTVEIL IN THE NC MOUNTAINS

Offline Busta

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Re: "accidental discharge" warning
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2008, 12:30:30 PM »
BUT if the hammer is NOT drawn to full draw where the sear is engaged and released it will fire from a partial cock and the transfer bar will function to fire.

That must be a different type of transfer bar than any I have ever seen. Any tranfer bar I have see the trigger must also be pulled (and held) before/during/after the hammer is cocked. If your trigger was also being pulled by brush while the hammer was was being cocked by the brush, then yes I can see how it could happen, but only if both were to happen at the same time.

On all my transfer bar guns, even at half cock, were the hammer to fall, the transfer bar also drops out of the way. When de-cocking, holding the hammer with the thumb while pulling the trigger, as soon as the sear disingages, the trigger is released, even if I were to let the hammer slip off my thumb at this point, the transfer bar would move out of the firing position. If I were to slip off the hammer in the way to full-cock, the transfer bar also moves back out of the way and the firing pin is never struck. The transfer bars also did away with the half-cock position on my H&R/NEF and Rugers.

I still think something is wrong with yours if it would fire from the hammer being partially cocked and then released. The whole reson for the transfer bar is so it does not do what you are saying your does. I say yours is faulty and you should notify CVA.
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Offline Keith Lewis

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Re: "accidental discharge" warning
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2008, 04:28:32 PM »
 BUT if the hammer is NOT drawn to full draw where the sear is engaged and released it will fire from a partial cock and the transfer bar will function to fire.

I tried this with my Optima Elite and the firing pin does not protrude. There is definately something wrong with the rifle if it will let the firing pin protrude with the hammer drawn partially and released without the trigger being pulled.

Offline montveil

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Re: "accidental discharge" warning
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2008, 06:40:07 AM »
DISCHARGE UPDATE
I found the cause of my discharge with the counsel of you folks.

MY DISCHARGE WAS NOT CAUSED BY THE FIREARM.
It was caused by water & rust getting into the firing pin spring which did not allow the pin to fully reset. Upon further thought this could have caused a discharge upon closing the breech.
All above surely reinforces the rules that the gun is always loaded and never point the muzzle at anything you don't want to shoot

IT WAS MY FAULT for not recognizing this as I could not remove the screw holding the pin.

BOTTOM LINE- check your firearm THOROUGHLY or else something like I explained could be catastrophic.

From now on I will hit all the hidden parts with WD 40 to remove any condensation followed by a spray cleaner to prevent WD 40 gumming

THANKS to all for the very tactful advice
MONTVEIL IN THE NC MOUNTAINS

Offline 12ptdroptine

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Re: "accidental discharge" warning
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2008, 07:02:46 AM »
A simular thing happend last season in Illinois might have been the season before..A father son and an uncle were hunting together..The uncle got a deer and they were around and doing what hunter's do together ..after a harvest..the firearm was on a sling over the shoulder of the 15 year old son...It discharged and hit him in the back of the head He died instantly....Those live's were changed forever....I read this in theOutdoor advantage magazine...It was a sad thing to hear about ... I worry about my son (26) and try to teach him ..I guess we as parents will always worry...Please  ALWAY'S KEEP SAFETY FIRST...

Offline notnodak

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Re: "accidental discharge" warning
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2008, 10:08:11 AM »
Does the transfer bar use gravity or as spring to retract? if it's gravity then when on your shoulder it may not be safe.