Recent k98 Russian releases

[savageT]

Alright,...... Who out there in milsurp land has acquired one of those newly released Russian K98's?  I understand they have most of the German Nazi stampings, but s/n's are mixed.  As Russian armorers are known to do, they were re-blued and stocks refinished with varnish or shellac.  How's the quality overall, and are the barrels in decent condition?  Any help on who the good C&R sources are?  I'd LOVE one!!

savageT

[1911crazy]

Alright,...... Who out there in milsurp land has acquired one of those newly released Russian K98's?  I understand they have most of the German Nazi stampings, but s/n's are mixed.  As Russian armorers are known to do, they were re-blued and stocks refinished with varnish or shellac.  How's the quality overall, and are the barrels in decent condition?  Any help on who the good C&R sources are?  I'd LOVE one!!

savageT

I have to say the $219 from SOG is alittle steep for what we are getting I read on other forums the gun is questionable?? Is it real or a fake just to sell us I'm not sure? This is what i'm reading from others about the gun. I did get some great buys from SOG in the past. I read about sanding marks, parts painted black, and the finishes I think i'll pass on it. I'd rather skip the german markings and get a good german mauser like a YUGO PREDUZECE 44 8MM 98 Mauser all matching numbers even the stock, and its assembled by the yugo's with left over german parts and a great quality gun and there is a few for sale here if you want a good shooter at a reasonable price. It won't have the german markings but you can feel the german mauser quality. If your looking for a german mauser look for the older one that has the unit/disc on the stock thats the one you want but you will pay the higher price but its the one that has the history and will hold its value for sure.  I have seen them at shows here but never looked at the prices. I still have my one with german eagles I paid $20 for I was thinking of rebarreling it but hate to ruin it for future value if left orginal. I think if these k98 russian/german mausers were legit they'd be gone by now the older collectors would eat them up for sure. Or maybe they aren't worth the price to serious collectors I'm not sure but we will wait and see I'm not jumping on it yet if i lose the chance its ok with me.
                                                                                BigBill

[Bigdog]

My shooting buddy just got his off the BBT - I'll be looking it over this weekend to see if I want to order one too.  He's got two other Mausers - a VZ24 and a 98/22, but had been wanting a German rifle to fill out his WWII collection.  Since these still have the Waffenamts, he ordered one.  From his description, it's in excellent shape, but I suspect it's been refurbed.  The Manufacturer code is for J.P. Sauer&Sohn, so it's from a good company.  It's dated 1941.  If I order one, I hope I get a similar rifle.
It did take a while to arrive, due to the dock strike.
It will be interesting to compare it to my M48 Yugo.

[savageT]

Bigdog,

What is the BBT.....is it an internet C&R Site?

savageT

[1911crazy]

My shooting buddy just got his off the BBT - I'll be looking it over this weekend to see if I want to order one too.  He's got two other Mausers - a VZ24 and a 98/22, but had been wanting a German rifle to fill out his WWII collection.  Since these still have the Waffenamts, he ordered one.  From his description, it's in excellent shape, but I suspect it's been refurbed.  The Manufacturer code is for J.P. Sauer&Sohn, so it's from a good company.  It's dated 1941.  If I order one, I hope I get a similar rifle.
It did take a while to arrive, due to the dock strike.
It will be interesting to compare it to my M48 Yugo.

It sounds like the russians refurbished them. How does the stock look? I heard they sanded the stocks in certain spots and has been reblued. Its a 98 so it should have the longer action than the 48.  its russian stamped too from what i heard. Let us know what you think of it when you see it.
                                                                     BigBill

[Mikey]

Hay BigBill and Savage T:  I'm still looking for another large ring Mauser.  I saw an add in the Shotgun Blues for some VZ-24s at decent prices.  Good for a rebuild.  One of the posters mentioned having shot out barrels rebored to larger Mauser calibers like the 9x57 - on par with the 358.  I wonder how difficult it would be to have a barrel re-bored and rechambered for something like the 9x63.  I would think a 7mm could be rebored to something like the 8x63 which is basically the 8mm/06 but in a good strong action can be loaded up pretty good.  

What I'm not sure about is the VZ 24-47s I've seen advertised.  Our Yugo M48s M48As are medium sized Mauser actions, not the truely large rings but they are fun guns, good shooters and make excellent hunters.  Mikey here.

[1911crazy]

I think Mikey is refering to the bolt lenght being different not the ring size. The large bolt '98' is 6.165 is the standard "german 98", then the middle/intermediate bolt '98' is 6.000 which is the "Yugo M48", then we have a shorter '98' bolt 5.750" which is in 1910 mexican mausers with '98 bolts with small rings. The mexican mauser is the most sought after action for sporterizing because of the smaller ring and larger bolt has less weight. And yes it does have its limits because of bolt lenght. So for longer bullets you actually want an orginal german "98" 6.165 action they even have modified trigger/magazine "lenghtened" housings all ready for longer bullets. Their listed by bolt hole distance of coarse you have to match this dimention to fit your reciever. This is no flame in anyway just food for thought for others for others thinking or planning a project sometimes a little direction can save headaches by picking the correct lenght action first to fit our needs.                 BigBill

We are all new at this at least I am so much to know and so little time I just want to get started and get it done it will be shootin time soon(after christmas)

[Rocky]

BigBill,

There are several errors in your post.  :-)
 
The measurements you give for the standard german 98 bolt are actually for the intermediate action. I don't know about the 6.00" bolt length you listed. I'll have to research it when I have more time. I have several reference books on the shelf - they list the Standard bolt length at 6.300". I have several Standard actions in my shop and they confirm this measurement. I also have two M48s and both bolts mic'd out at 6.165". The Mexican Mauser is, as you stated, a SMALL Ring action and not the subject of the previous post. Actually, it only weighs a couple of ounces less than a Standard M98 and is really not all that desirable for converting these days due to the varying quality of heat treatment found. Some - not all - Mexican actions are rather soft and the lugs may (if they haven't already) set back when pressures run around the 50,000 c.u.p. mark - e.g. when rebarreled to .308 Winchester. If the action is suspect, re-heat treating is an option as the actions respond well to the process. Also, unless the action has been modified or came from the factory (many did) set up for longer cartridges, there is more to making a Standard or Intermediate length M98 action handle .30-06 length cartridges than simply installing a longer magazine box. Usually, the aft portion of the lower locking lug needs to have a sevreal thou of metal machined from it to match the new magazine box and allow the longer cartridges to feed. Sometimes - although rarely - the feed rails require some tuning. Incidentally, the Colombians also cut a "U" notch in the aft portion of the top locking lug/receiver ring to allow FMJ issue ammo to be loaded from stripper clips when they switched to .30-06.  

Here are some measurements for reference:

Standard Large Ring (Gewehr98, K98) M98 actions:

Bolt Length - 6.300" (16.20cm)
Receiver Ring Length - 1.890" (4.30cm)
Ring Diameter - 1.410" (3.58cm)
Receiver Length - 8.750" (22.24cm)

Intermediate Large Ring M98 (Yugo M48):

Bolt Length - 6.165" (15.70cm)
Receiver Ring Length - 1.890" (4.80cm)
Ring Diameter - 1.410" (3.58cm)
Receiver Length - 8.750" (22.24cm)  

Hope this helps.

[1911crazy]

BigBill,

There are several errors in your post.  :-)
 
The measurements you give for the standard german 98 bolt are actually for the intermediate action. I don't know about the 6.00" bolt length you listed. I'll have to research it when I have more time. I have several reference books on the shelf - they list the Standard bolt length at 6.300". I have several Standard actions in my shop and they confirm this measurement. I also have two M48s and both bolts mic'd out at 6.165". The Mexican Mauser is, as you stated, a SMALL Ring action and not the subject of the previous post. Actually, it only weighs a couple of ounces less than a Standard M98 and is really not all that desirable for converting these days due to the varying quality of heat treatment found. Some - not all - Mexican actions are rather soft and the lugs may (if they haven't already) set back when pressures run around the 50,000 c.u.p. mark - e.g. when rebarreled to .308 Winchester. If the action is suspect, re-heat treating is an option as the actions respond well to the process. Also, unless the action has been modified or came from the factory (many did) set up for longer cartridges, there is more to making a Standard or Intermediate length M98 action handle .30-06 length cartridges than simply installing a longer magazine box. Usually, the aft portion of the lower locking lug needs to have a sevreal thou of metal machined from it to match the new magazine box and allow the longer cartridges to feed. Sometimes - although rarely - the feed rails require some tuning. Incidentally, the Colombians also cut a "U" notch in the aft portion of the top locking lug/receiver ring to allow FMJ issue ammo to be loaded from stripper clips when they switched to .30-06.  

Here are some measurements for reference:

Standard Large Ring (Gewehr98, K98) M98 actions:

Bolt Length - 6.300" (16.20cm)
Receiver Ring Length - 1.890" (4.30cm)
Ring Diameter - 1.410" (3.58cm)
Receiver Length - 8.750" (22.24cm)

Intermediate Large Ring M98 (Yugo M48):

Bolt Length - 6.165" (15.70cm)
Receiver Ring Length - 1.890" (4.80cm)
Ring Diameter - 1.410" (3.58cm)
Receiver Length - 8.750" (22.24cm)  

Hope this helps.

The K98 german mauser I have measures 6.165" same as the 98 yugo.
Are they yugo preduzece 8mm mausers? their k98's the yugo's assembled them with german parts they measure 6.165".  I have one full yugo M48a here that measures 6".  This is what i have here. And I'm looking into a mexican mauser reciever the bolt is 5 3/4".       BigBill

[Rocky]

Hi BigBill,

I'm curious, what are the codes/markings on the receiver your K98? (Don't post the serial number.)
     
     I don't have the Yugo specs or any drawings/blueprints here....that I can find offhand, so can't answer where they were originally produced.
     Germany supplied M98 parts and support all over the world up to the end of WWII, so it's not surprising to find them in the mix everywhere.
     The action with the 6.00" bolt length is ringing a bell somewhere in the back of my noggin. Going to have to check into that one.
     From what I've been able to unearth over the years, the Karabiner 98, when adopted in 1935, was based upon the standard length action as produced at the Mauser Works hence the 6.300" dimension for the standard bolt length.   6.165" is the dimension for the intermediate bolt.
     There were a few other M98 variations produced in addition to the Magnum/Standard/Intermediate/Short actions, but these four are the basic ones. (Apparently, Mauser was generally quite willing to manufacture, within reason, whatever the customer specified.)
     During the war, the demand for rifles resulted in all types of actions being pressed into service; many intermediate actions found their way into the system. Throughout Germany, and in the occupied countries, there were various manufacturers of the K98. Apparently, many of them used/manufactured intermediate length actions, but the original specs called out standard length.
     On a footnote, the 'K' in K98 stands for kurz (short) which refers to the shorter overall length (1,110mm or 43.7" without bayonet attached).

[1911crazy]

Hi BigBill,

I'm curious, what are the codes/markings on the receiver your K98? (Don't post the serial number.)
     
     I don't have the Yugo specs or any drawings/blueprints here....that I can find offhand, so can't answer where they were originally produced.
     Germany supplied M98 parts and support all over the world up to the end of WWII, so it's not surprising to find them in the mix everywhere.
     The action with the 6.00" bolt length is ringing a bell somewhere in the back of my noggin. Going to have to check into that one.
     From what I've been able to unearth over the years, the Karabiner 98, when adopted in 1935, was based upon the standard length action as produced at the Mauser Works hence the 6.300" dimension for the standard bolt length.   6.165" is the dimension for the intermediate bolt.
     There were a few other M98 variations produced in addition to the Magnum/Standard/Intermediate/Short actions, but these four are the basic ones. (Apparently, Mauser was generally quite willing to manufacture, within reason, whatever the customer specified.)
     During the war, the demand for rifles resulted in all types of actions being pressed into service; many intermediate actions found their way into the system. Throughout Germany, and in the occupied countries, there were various manufacturers of the K98. Apparently, many of them used/manufactured intermediate length actions, but the original specs called out standard length.
     On a footnote, the 'K' in K98 stands for kurz (short) which refers to the shorter overall length (1,110mm or 43.7" without bayonet attached).

The markings on my German K98 receiver are date is "1939" and the number "42" on top of the receiver on the side is "Mod.98" on the large ring left side is 48 over a "W" with german eagles on both sides of the large ring and the barrel has them too.  This is my 8mm with the shot out barrel I just took the barrel off the receiver today to change it.
                                                                     BigBill
My M48 Yugo is dated 1944 and its brandnew its one of the last batch they were selling.

[Rocky]

Looks like your rifle is built upon a (captured or surrendered maybe?) 1939 Mauser/Oberndorf intermediate action and is an excellent foundation upon which to build a nice custom rifle. Do you have a new barrel for it? If so, what make and caliber? Thanks.

[1911crazy]

Looks like your rifle is built upon a (captured or surrendered maybe?) 1939 Mauser/Oberndorf intermediate action and is an excellent foundation upon which to build a nice custom rifle. Do you have a new barrel for it? If so, what make and caliber? Thanks.

I'm not sure what caliber yet I like the 8mm, 7MM or the 7.62x39 but the 8mm and 7.62x39 have cheaper ammo the 8mm barrel(military) is $50+ship and the 7.62x39(new replacement) barrel with the feeder setup is $99+ship. I may go with the 8mm its in excellent condition and I have some of the turk ammo. I'm just going to go slow with this one the stock is in nice shape too it should cleanup good. The gun was worth the $20 I paid for it i got it in a package deal with two other guns.     BigBill

Merry Christmas to all!!!!

[Bigdog]

Got to look over my buddy's Kar98k Russian Capture.  Pretty nice condition, though it has definitely been rearsenaled.  Lot's of WaffenAmts, but the serial numbers are mixed.  Trigger and mag housing and floorplate are forged, but the front band is the late-war stamped.  Standard sheet-metal cupped buttplate.  The stock is decent, though it shows some use plus a couple new handling dings.  The handguard is a mismatch, being much darker in color.  The bore is mirror bright.  Lockup is good and tight.
We won't get to shoot it for a couple weeks, and I'll be comparing it with my Yugo M48A.
Over-all, it's an okay rifle, but I wouldn't pay these prices for a mismatch parts rifle.  I'd go with the Yugo rework, even though it would lack the WaffenAmts.  Half the price, too.
He bought it from SOG, for about $219 I think.  FAC has the same rifles for about $225.
I hear Allan's Armory has the best ones, but you'll pay a higher price for them.

[1911crazy]

Got to look over my buddy's Kar98k Russian Capture.  Pretty nice condition, though it has definitely been rearsenaled.  Lot's of WaffenAmts, but the serial numbers are mixed.  Trigger and mag housing and floorplate are forged, but the front band is the late-war stamped.  Standard sheet-metal cupped buttplate.  The stock is decent, though it shows some use plus a couple new handling dings.  The handguard is a mismatch, being much darker in color.  The bore is mirror bright.  Lockup is good and tight.
We won't get to shoot it for a couple weeks, and I'll be comparing it with my Yugo M48A.
Over-all, it's an okay rifle, but I wouldn't pay these prices for a mismatch parts rifle.  I'd go with the Yugo rework, even though it would lack the WaffenAmts.  Half the price, too.
He bought it from SOG, for about $219 I think.  FAC has the same rifles for about $225.
I hear Allan's Armory has the best ones, but you'll pay a higher price for them.

When I look at a military gun all i worry about is if the bolt matches the reciever and the bore looks good then your chances you'll have a good gun the rest of the numbers is a plus if they match. When we mailorder its the luck of the draw with anything. At that price if your looking for a shooter your better off with a brand new M48 for $250.  If you can still find one.                                                    BigBill

Merry Christmas to all!!!!!