Got a complete lower now what?

[Graybeard]

As mentioned on the shotgun thread I'll start a new thread on this rather than hi-jack that one.

Having a lower in hand "complete I think" what's next?

I was assuming that a "complete upper" would contain all needed to stick on the lower to make a complete rifle and then all that was needed would be a magazine and ammo. Looking so far tho it seems maybe that's not the case as the ones I'm seeing sold as complete upper don't have a barrel or fore end or sights or any such.

So what do you buy to complete the rifle and where. I think DPMS sells them that way and I know Midsouth Shooters Supply has them chambered in .204 Ruger.

If I were to decide on a different chambering than .223 what's possible to fit on a standard AR lower? I'm sure it's limited to rounds small enough for the mag to fit which I guess rules out things like .308, 7-08 and .260 Remington. I assume the 6.8 Remington is do able and I guess so is 7.62x39 and ammo for it is definitely cheaper than for the .223 at least around here it seems to be.

So let's talk about what one does next with a lower in hand as I think that might be a topic of interest to newbies to the AR platform.

[Bugflipper]

http://www.model1sales.com/subcats.cfm?Category=02&sessionid=
In your case you are going to have to add a charging handle and bolt carrier to complete an upper. Your right though they include everything you need, maybe try upper half. Complete upper may be confusing the search engine into what do I need to complete upper. Some calibers will need to have a different buffer and spring, but we can get into that later,no big deal. Just look at the butt stock on the inside there should be a 1" circle, press it in, that is your buffer. Extremely easy to remove. And change out.

[Graybeard]

Thanks for the link I have it open in another window and will spend some time there when I finish with the forums this morning.

[Bugflipper]

AR-15, with 5.56 bolt
.17 Remington
.20 Tactical
.204 Ruger
.221 Fireball
.222 Remington
.222 Remington Magnum
.223 Remington (5.56x45mm)
.223 Remington Ackley Improved
6x45mm
6mm Whisper
6.5mm Whisper
7mm Whisper
7mm TCU
.300 Whisper (.300/221, .300 Fireball)
.338 Whisper

AR-15, with non factory bolt supplied by upper manufacturer
223 WSSM
5.45x39mm (.21 Genghis)
243 WSSM
6mm PPC
6mm BR Remington  
6WOA (6.8 SPC necked down to 6mm)
6mm Hagar (very similar to the 6 WOA, but a longer case formed from a 30 Remington case.)
6.5mm PPC
6.5mm Grendel
25 WSSM
6.8x43mm SPC
.30 Herrett Rimless Tactical (6.8x43mm case trimmed to 41mm and necked up to .308; the 6.8mm version of the .300 Whisper)
.30 carbine
7.62x39mm
300 Olympic Magnum (30 WSSM)
338 Spectre
.357 Auto
.450 Bushmaster
.458 SOCOM
.50 Action Express
.50 Beowulf

AR-15 using a simple blowback operation instead of gas tube put together by upper manufacturer.
.17 HMR
.22 LR
.22 WMR
9x19mm
9x21
9x23
357 Sig  
40S&W
10mm Auto
45 Gap
45ACP

Single Shot Upper
30/06
338 lapau
50 bmg
Probably a few more, I know there are some more on the wssm but they were wildcats last I heard. Also a lot more wildcats on the .221 and .223 case.
So anything from flies to armored personnel carriers can be hunted with the lowly AR.

[darrell8937]

Holy bug flipper,, thats a lot to digest. I was kind of turned off to Ar as I was issued a beater in the Army. a M16a1. What a piece of crap! It was long since worn out. But am thinking about buying a lower and starting building. I ill probaly go armalight!

[AtlLaw]

Hey Bill,
Have you gone to AR15.com?  Everything you want to know and more can be found there.

I haven't bought any AR stuff since just after the ban set, but Rock River Arms always produced good stuff at a reasonable price.  You might want to check the general consensis on Model 1 if you go to AR15.com.

A "complete" upper should have everything you need to just put it on a lower and shoot.  Some builders use the term complete and do NOT include the bolt or charging handle.  Be careful.

Let's see.  Useta was the big names, best reputation suppliers were:  Colt, RRA & Bushmaster.  I think Stag was starting to get good reviews also.  I'm sure there are a couple of others that I've forgotten.  But, since that time a lot of people have jumped on the AR bandwagon.  Some good and some not so good as I understand.

Go to AR15.com, their "Equipment Exchange" forum has a catagory just for new uppers.  And they always had a lot of used ones for sale.

[Graybeard]

WOW what a list. I guess I never even thought about some of those. I do see some I have a definite interest in especially the TCUs either 7 TCU or 6.5 TCU both of which I've owned previously. I have a large supply of Sierra 130 grain SSP bullets I bought for use in the 7-30 Waters in TCs and in the 7 TCU I love them as well. I'd think in a rifle form they should do beautifully.

How would you go about getting such a barrel chambered to a round like the TCUs? Who would do such? I'm thinking that SSK Industries just might be a choice as I know JD does a lot of work with ARs and he for sure deals in all the TC stuff. I'll have to give my old buddy a call and discuss that with him.

I went to the Model 1 Sales site and have to admit to getting myself totally and completely confused by the options listed. Each link I clicked on listed way too many options for me to know what I need or why I should want them. It seems none come with BOLT CARRIER GROUP & CHARGING HANDLE and I have no clue which of those options listed to chose. Then they want me to chose a free float and swivel and I have no clue what that means. They also want me to chose which sights and I'm not far enough along in figuring this out to make such a decision yet.

I have a fairly good idea of what I think I'd like the upper to look like and I think this is it.




I'm thinking of a folding rear BUIS and mounting a folding front BUIS on that little rail out front of the handguard. Then perhaps putting either another EOTech Holosight or an Aimpoint on the flat top rail.

If I went with the 7 TCU or even 6.5 TCU it could serve dual duty as a hunting rifle as well as a self defense rifle. In that case for hunting I could have a scope mounted on QD rings to replace the Holosight or Aimpoint.

I'm kinda liking that option. What might be even nicer tho might be to turn my R15 with 22" barrel into perhaps the 7 TCU set up as a hunting rifle and varmint combo. The possibilities seem endless.

Hey Bill,
Have you gone to AR15.com?  Everything you want to know and more can be found there.

Yes I have visited AR15 and bookmarked it but got as confused there as at the Model 1 sales site. I never did find any forums but did find lots of info and articles. I looked what I thought was pretty good and never found their forums which is what I thought they mostly were. I might not have been at their home page tho. I spent a couple hours there looking around one day.

[Totenkopf]

This article may help you out if you have time to read it.
http://forums.officer.com/showthread.php?t=81462

[CannonKrazy]

GB I think you are hooked. I know for a fact there is a term on another thread that's called a Handi-Holic. I see right now we are going to have to come up with something on the same line. Maybe an AR-Addict. I know these rifles sure do have alot to choose from in the way of building.

[AtlLaw]

Ar15.com is the home page.  About half way down the screen, running in a line from left to right, is a list starting with Library.  The next block says AR-15.  That is the AR forums section.  The last title in that lateral list is "Equipment Exchange."  That is the classifieds section that has the forum for new uppers plus many others.  You might also look at the "Industry" title.  It has forums for all the AR producers.

All these calibers on the AR platform is really supprising to me.  They didn't exist just a couple of years ago.  Lotsa feeding problems.  At that time the big goal was to develop a reliable AR based 7.62.  Didn't interest me, I got 3 FAL's!   

[Graybeard]

I tend to switch interests from time to time over a period of several years. I usually get pretty deeply into which ever phase of interest I have at the time. I've messed around with handguns, rifles and shotguns getting pretty deeply involved in competition with each for a few years before burning out on that and moving on to the next phase. It's just the way I am.

I'll clink that link and read on that site when I have time likely tomorrow. Thanks Totenkopf

Atlaw thanks for the heads up on AR15. I think I might recall that line you mention but did not associate that with forums for whatever reason. It's been a couple weeks or more since I visited. I'll try to make time tomorrow to look it over as well.

I do like the concept of an AR in one or more of the TCU chamberings as I really do like them. I've owned all but the .257 TCU and enjoyed them greatly. For a prairie dog rifle I can't imagine anything nicer than the 6 TCU and for an all round defense and hunting rifle the 6.5 and 7 TCUs should really be nice choices. The really nice thing about them is that the regular .223 magazines should work fine with them. I just need to figure out how one goes about getting an upper set up for such.

How easy is it to change barrels on these things. I mean if I got one upper set up could I switch out barrels between the various TCU rounds or would you need an upper for each?

[AtlLaw]

I tend to switch interests from time to time over a period of several years. I usually get pretty deeply into which ever phase of interest I have at the time.

I'm the same way.  There are just so many interesting subjects to learn about out there.  And the IN has made life a lot easier for folk like us!     That's one of the reasons I love this site.  I can find a forum here on just about any subject I want to read about! 

However, there's a wealth of AR info at the AR15.com site; manufacturers run specials, all kinds of good stuff.  If I were in the market for an upper, and didn't have a guy who lives just a few miles from me that assembles the stuff, the first place I'd go would be the AR15.com equipment exchange and get an idea what's out there and the going prices.

How easy is it to change barrels on these things. I mean if I got one upper set up could I switch outbarrels between the various TCU rounds or would you need an upper for each?

The AR is a semi-modular design but not a switch barrel design.  Each barrel is torqued into the upper receiver.  It would be more like changing out a barrel on a Savage rifle then an MG43.     I guess you could do that, but I've never heard of anyone who does.

You've reminded me that besides an M4orgery upper, I had thought about a varmint upper in .204 for coyote hunting.  The possibilities are endless but since the lowers are so cheap, I'd always want a lower for each upper, and an upper for each purpose.   

I hope I don't sound like a know-it-all.  I've been involved with AR's in one way or another off and on since 1965 and they hold a special place in my history.   

[Totenkopf]

Below is a link to Brownells they have free videos to get you up to speed working on the AR. Just click on the topic when the page comes up click on the video then pause it when it starts playing. Give it a couple minutes then watch.
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/GunTech/newsletterarchive.aspx?x=v
On the 7 tcu OAL is 2.5", mag will hold up to 2.25" ( actually 2.225 but you need .005 for feeding) in most cases depending on brand some are .06" more. So in other words you have to seat bullet deep to get it to fit. I would really recommend you either buy the tools and practice on your weapon before buying a barrel or having a rechamber or just buying a complete upper. Lets say the 300 whisper for example. It will shoot 150 gr fine in factory setup. Put in a 240 and it will not cycle reliably. You have to install an adjustable gas block ( easy and in a video on the link above) to get it to cycle right. Then when you shoot 150 gr again you have to turn the valve and increase pressure.
 I have shot 115 and 130 gr in the 7tcu without a hitch with factory gas block. If you buy an upper all of that is taken care of at the factory. If you build your own you have to tinker a bit, but you will find it easy while using those videos.

 If you ever plan on deer hunting with an AR I highly recommend the 25 wssm. Ballistically it is just under the 25-06.

[45-70.gov]

the 25wssm  sounds  like as good as it can  get

might cause  me to forget about getting a heavy ar-10

and  just upgrade  my  ar-15

where do  i get  one i  just  need the upper  but another  whole gun  is  good

and  any one  else  have  experience with  them

how about  mags

[Totenkopf]

When I was searching this was viewed to be the best by people that had them.
http://www.dtechsuperstore.com/WSSM%20page.htm
Olympic makes them factory as well. Most likely  $200-$300 cheaper out the door price. There were no negative views on Olympic when I was buying, I just wanted a match grade barrel.
 http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&category_id=12&product_id=106&Itemid=37&vmcchk=1&Itemid=37

[SharonAnne]

the Model 1 KITS come with bolt and carrier. Since you have a complete lower you would have left over parts. I have 2 stripped lowers, 2 CAR stocks- 1 plastic,1 aluminum, 1-20" light barrel, 1-16" light barrel, 1 aluminum free float fore end, a 'complete' internal kit and 1 different non-GI flash suppressors. So I have different needs than you.

[Graybeard]

Since you have a complete lower you would have left over parts.

Huh? 

Now I realize that at this point I know darn near nothing about these things but all I have for it is a lower and what Model 1 is selling are uppers. What parts are you referring to that would be left over or extra. What part or parts are found in both a complete upper and a complete lower? I am confused. Boy is that an understatement. 

[45-70.gov]

When I was searching this was viewed to be the best by people that had them.
http://www.dtechsuperstore.com/WSSM%20page.htm
Olympic makes them factory as well. Most likely  $200-$300 cheaper out the door price. There were no negative views on Olympic when I was buying, I just wanted a match grade barrel.
 http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&category_id=12&product_id=106&Itemid=37&vmcchk=1&Itemid=37

those  uppers  cost  as  much as  the  ar-10  i  just  ordered  complete
but  that  25wssm  in  the smaller package  sure seems nice




i  didn't understand the left over parts either  but didn't want to be the first to say    ''i dunno''

[Totenkopf]

Model 1 also sells a complete parts kit I believe SA was referring to. You would buy a stripped lower and they sell a kit that provides everything to complete a rifle. Be advised model 1 uses Er Shaw barrels that most advise as mediocre at best.

45-70.gov  I also thought about an ar-10 for large game. The weight and length guided me away from them. So do you hunt with it? If so is it alright for a walking rifle or more for stationary? They are offering a few more chamberings now that are interesting, but I generally walk long distances.

[SharonAnne]

I may have misunderstood. You said you had a COMPLETE lower. To me that is a lower receiver with the trigger group, all pins, pistol grip and stock. The KITS have a fully assembled upper, including bolt and carrier. They include all parts for the lower, pins, trigger group, grip, stock, EXCEPT the bare lower receiver. If you have a complete lower then the kit would have lower parts you already have assembled.

[45-70.gov]

my ar-15  is  20 inch  not  real  heavy but  not light  either smith and wesson from the perfomance center
a  little heavy  but  THE MOST ACCUATE gun  i own.....4x14  nikon monark

i  hunt with  my 308  bolt 3x9 leupold
lighter
simpler action
more power
but  i do want to shoot something with  it
last deer  i shot  i never took the empty out of the chamber til  the deer  was in the freezer
so  much  for  the follow up  shot  advandage

i  was  in  the  mountains  and the bolt gun is a better walking stick
most of my guns have slings too

[Graybeard]

I think you and I are looking at two different things on there SharonAnne. The uppers I'm looking at from my reading have nothing but upper parts to them nothing for the lower. At least that's the way I'm reading it. They are not rifle kits but just complete uppers ready to add to my lower.

[backstrap]

Greybeard go to mobel 1 sales web sight, and go under KITS they come with every thing but a striped lower thats where u need to look at not upper halfs.i bought 1 about 6 months ago for my striped lower and it comes with every thing .well the sight tells u that u must be looking at some thing else go under KITS

[Graybeard]

Greybeard go to mobel 1 sales web sight, and go under KITS they come with every thing but a striped lower thats where u need to look at not upper halfs.i bought 1 about 6 months ago for my striped lower and it comes with every thing .well the sight tells u that u must be looking at some thing else go under KITS

Why would I wanna do that? I have a COMPLETE lower all I need is an upper I don't need any sorta kit with lower parts in it.

[backstrap]

no u wouldnt need a kit for a complete lower sorry read it wrong,but they have uppers with bolt, carrier and chargeing handle and others with out 

[Graybeard]

Right what I'm thinking of getting is the complete upper with carrier (which I have no clue what that is) and a chrome bolt. If this works it is a copy of the page with the parts I think I want on it.

OK so much for that plan it didn't copy.

[towpro]

Right what I'm thinking of getting is the complete upper with carrier (which I have no clue what that is) and a chrome bolt. If this works it is a copy of the page with the parts I think I want on it.

OK so much for that plan it didn't copy.

Graybeard, Model 1 sales sells both complete kits as well complete upper receivers (as well as parts).

In your first post you said you thought you had a complete lower. If it has the trigger in it already, that would be a complete lower.  If it just a chunk of metal, that is a stripped lower.

I started with a striped lower, then bought a complete kit from Model 1 sales.  The kit I bought is a dedicated 22lr upper.  I already reload for 5 different calabers, and I know I would want to shoot a semi auto rifle more then 50 times per outing, so I thought about it real hard and went with the 22lr. From what I read they love cheep ammo.

I ordered Nov 20.  Model 1 told me 12-14 weeks before I should expect my shipment because they were receiving around 400 orders per day.
They told me that if I ordered everything as a Kit, it would all ship the same time.
They said they would not charge my Credit card until it ships. (several places are charging you card when you order!!!!)

On 11/25 I called them and they said they were shipping Nov 3rd orders.

On 11/26 I received a "quantum view" message from UPS that Model 1 sent me a 10lb box that I will receive December 3rd.  Is it my "kit"?

I have not seen a charge on my card yet, but it has been a holiday weekend.

[Graybeard]

Yes I have determined my lower is in fact complete. IT has the trigger assembly and a stock and the pins.

[Lloyd Smale]

stay away from the 762x39 they suffer the same fate as the mini 30. Nobody makes a magazine that allows them to run reliably.

[backstrap]

Greybeard my first build was with a complete lower like yours mine was a DPMS, and i got my complete upper from Del-Ton.com they have willson barrels u might check out there web site