Yankee Myth # 2 - Lincoln the Humanitarian

[Dee]

In May of 2006, a black writer by the name of Robert Stacy McCain, document much of Lincoln's racist remarks in a article.
It seems that he was a racist in more areas than just the blacks.

Lincoln's quote: The people of Mexico are decidedly a race of mongrels. I understand that less than 1 out of every 8 men are pure white.

He continually pushed for all blacks to be shipped to Liberia, and repatriated to their home lands. He supported a bill to not allow blacks to migrate north to Illinois, and preached against allowing slavery in the west, as the white man needed a place to live that was white ONLY.

[littlecanoe]

Dee,

I did a quick search and couldn't find that particular article.  I did scan a bit of Robert Stacy McCain's writing and liked what I saw there.  Do you have a link or name of publication that the referenced article was in?

Thanks,

[Dee]

I'll go back and look. It was a random prowl I was on when I came across it.

Yahoo search on "Robert Stacy McCain on Lincoln's racism", then click on "My Homepage", and it will come up. He has MANY Lincoln quotes that will enlighten you on our FALSE HERO, Mr. Lincoln.

Also: www.scvcamp469-nbf.com/theblackconfederatesoldier.htm    Very interesting site, and informative on "Mr. Lincoln".

[SouthernByGrace]

Dee, that's a Wonderful link. I've read some of this before and I never tire of it. I'll have to keep this link in mind when I post the Yankee myth on race relations in the South. It fits it perfectly.
Keep up the good work, my friend.

DEO VINDICE

[williamlayton]

I didn't bring up the Morrill Act. I responded too it.
Perhaps this thread should be only for those who believe the Southern myths about the myths of Lincoln.
I will not rspond again for fear of upsetting the train of thought aimed at justifying starting a war that could not be won and why the Union should have just left the South too drift back too the stone age.
Blessings

[Ga.windbreak]

Dee that is a great link, thanks so much.

[Dee]

I didn't bring up the Morrill Act. I responded too it.
Perhaps this thread should be only for those who believe the Southern myths about the myths of Lincoln.
I will not rspond again for fear of upsetting the train of thought aimed at justifying starting a war that could not be won and why the Union should have just left the South too drift back too the stone age.
Blessings

That sounds like a great and constructive idea William. I don't know about the rest, but I appreciate it. See ya somewhere else.

[williamlayton]

As long as you are admitting you can't respond too facts without myths.
Blessings

[littlecanoe]

I find that there is no greater avenue to find out what a man thinks than to view his words.  Mr. Lincoln seems to have made many statement that would brand him an extremist racist today and while those statements would likely have been more accepted in his day and age, they are no less a meter for the measure of what was in Lincoln's heart.  That which is in the heart proceeds forth from the mouth.

I read his statements to know the truth and find suspicions upheld.  This is not mere coincidence.  I am reading what the man wrote and said.  I view the atrocities that he committed against those who opposed him through their 1st amendment rights.  No myths there.  Facts. 

Dee, thanks for the article.  I found it and it's a good read.  It's very interesting that some if not many within the black community are starting to understand the icon Lincoln. 

Was Lincoln a humanitarian?  I think not.  Was he a Patriot?  Not to the cause of America.  He knowingly denied the southern states the right to self government.  This is the right, ye, the responsibility that he himself said belongs to any people throughout the world.

Whether the south was right or wrong in their collective effort is not the issue.  Whether slavery was or wasn't part of the grievance is not the issue.  Whether slavery was to spread westward or die a slow death is not the issue.  The southern states, feeling that the Federal Government was divesting them of the right to self government, did, with due diligence seek to maintain that right.   All other associated issues and arguments fall at the feet of that one fact.

[SouthernByGrace]

Well put, lc. That's what I like to see; a well thought out and well researched post that makes absolute perfect sense.
And it was actually ON topic... (Not that your posts aren't, lc, that was just a little jab at somebody else whose posts aren't.)     And I just slapped my own hand for that one...LOL
Great job. Keep up the good work.

[Ga.windbreak]

Another link to another black writer's view of Mr. Lincoln as the savior of people of color.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_25_16/ai_63323546

I quote:


Ebony magazine's Lerone Bennett Jr. has written a history of Abraham Lincoln that calls for a reexamination of the racial attitudes of the 16th president of the United States. The `Great Emancipator,' argues the author, was actually a white supremacist.

[williamlayton]

No one has denied the fact that racism was as bad in the Union as the South.
The point is well documented that MANY in the Union wanted the abolition of slavery. It is also true that a number in the South agreed.
Where did the underground rail road begin?
I have stated clearly that all had some amount of contradiction in this area.
There was a problem and how too handle it.
The Souths solution was too simply continue it.
There was enough pressure on the government too know that elections were going too turn the tide against this institution. The South knew this also.
That is called doing the will of the people.
The South did not want freed slaves in the south. This brings about a fear factor and rumors.
There was one solution. Secede. They did. They lost.
There was also a move too give them land in the west.
The South rejected this also.
Blessings

[Graybeard]

Bill why do you roll every conversation back around to the same point even when it has nothing to do with the subject of the thread. This one is about Lincoln and and how he is not what folks pretend he was. That last post and most have zero to do with the subject of this thread. Let's try to stay on topic.

[Ga.windbreak]

Bill why do you roll every conversation back around to the same point even when it has nothing to do with the subject of the thread. This one is about Lincoln and and how he is not what folks pretend he was. That last post and most have zero to do with the subject of this thread. Let's try to stay on topic.

Thank you, sir. You are most kind.

[williamlayton]

Graybeard
You may ask me too not be involved in this portion of the forum or too leave these forums all together and I will comply.
If you will read the context of the statements here they are altogether about bigotry and showing racism in Lincoln.
I responded because I think they do not look at history in the light of what it is, a myriad of complex issues.
You may respond openly,
Blessings

[Graybeard]

Graybeard
You may ask me too not be involved in this portion of the forum or too leave these forums all together and I will comply.

I am not asking that you not post I am merely asking you to post things relevant to the topic being discussed. How many times as moderator have you asked folks to do the same?

If you will read the context of the statements here they are altogether about bigotry and showing racism in Lincoln.

I did read the entire thread. I just do not see where what you posted had any relavance to it. As I've mentioned often my mind and yours clearly do not work the same way. Many times after reading a post by you all I can do is scratch my head and say HUH? I just do not agree that your posts above have any semblance of relevance to the topic at hand. Clearly by the comments of others they feel the same.

So long as your comments are relevant to the topic at hand it matters not if our views on the subject mesh but when you just take a left turn and get way off out in the field taking things having nothing to do with the subject of the discussion it is rather distracting and adds nothing. Just because the topic reminds you of something else doesn't make that something else relevant to the discussion.

I responded because I think they do not look at history in the light of what it is, a myriad of complex issues.
You may respond openly,

Surely by now you know me well enough to know I need no invitation to speak openly or frankly.

How you view what someone else looks at or how complex an issue is has nothing to do with totally off topic discussion on a thread. You and all are perfectly welcome to participate in any thread here at GBO. But like all others I do expect folks to stay at least reasonably close to what all can agree are on topic to the discussion. I realize things tend to drift in time when the grow long but geez in this particular forum from your first post you seem bent on moving the subject to something you are more comfortable with. If this isn't in your comfort zone then you don't have to participate but if you do participate and that's fine if you do at least try to talk about what the rest of us are talking about not some totally different subject you feel would be better discussed than what we are. Feel free to open as many threads as you wish to talk the topics you feel more relevant to the discussion and if folks want to debate or discuss those issues they can and will.

But really they just do not have anything to do with the specific topics being discussed here in the threads I've commented to you on.

[williamlayton]

I generally respond, in kind, too a statement or thought I find interesting, wheather or not I agree or disagree is immaterial in this particular discussion.
I saw the attempt too represent Lincoln as a two faced scoundrel. In an attempt to show that the complexity of the leadership problems overwhelmed Lincolns personal contadictions you think or it is reported that you thought I was off topic.
I think I was at the heart of the topic.
I will refrain from these conversations as many don't seem too want discuss them but rely on each other too reinforce their own thoughts.
Blessings

[Dee]

Lincoln WAS a two faced scoundrel, and his own words prove it to be true. He talked out of both sides of his mouth by saying what was well received by whom ever he was speaking to AT THE TIME. Had we had the present day news media at the time, where his messages were constantly being broadcast nation wide, he would have suffered the same fate as McCain. Another double speaker. Now that is just MY OPINION.

[williamlayton]

I agree that we disagree.
Blessings

[Ga.windbreak]

Lincoln WAS a two faced scoundrel, and his own words prove it to be true. He talked out of both sides of his mouth by saying what was well received by whom ever he was speaking to AT THE TIME. Had we had the present day news media at the time, where his messages were constantly being broadcast nation wide, he would have suffered the same fate as McCain. Another double speaker. Now that is just MY OPINION.

You are NOT alone, Lincoln was a one eyed Jack!!

[littlecanoe]

It would seem, from all recent discussion and subsequent points, that the the north leaning writers of the history of The War used a large paint brush to pen their prose.  Their script seems to blot out the truth of what happened.  Here I refer to the immense testimony of those southern patriots, posted in this forum, attesting to their reason for bearing arms against their fellow countrymen.  That which proceeds from the mouth comes from the heart.

[Gary G]

You have made some good observations LC.
In every case of war, the winners always write history to their advantage by making it justifiable and most often one sided. The losers position is only documented later, after the truth damage has already been done. If the truth were told, both sides lost more than any one side gained, and a most often result of war is a move toward statism and away from liberty.

As I said before, Lincoln was the Father of Big Government (followed by FDR and Lyndon Johnson). This might be disagreeable with some of you, but you can include Bush - Dept of Homeland security, Meds for old people, two wars, surveillance, etc.


Obama will be all the above in one package.

[Dee]

No argument here Gary

[Ga.windbreak]

As I said before, Lincoln was the Father of Big Government (followed by FDR and Lyndon Johnson). This might be disagreeable with some of you, but you can include Bush - Dept of Homeland security, Meds for old people, two wars, surveillance, etc.

You said it right Gary G the two biggest defilers of our Constitution: Lincoln and then Bush. In my mind, although there are others, they pale in comparison to those two. If/when we are attacked again, as in 9/11, I truly fear for our civil liberties; what with Homeland and the likes of Blackwater and others.

[williamlayton]

You leave aut the Democrats?? That is a real oversight.
Blessings

[Ga.windbreak]

A few more quotes from and about Lincoln and the black slaves:

"They had better be set to digging their subsistence out of the ground." ~ Lincoln in a War Department memo, April 16, 1863

"Send them to Liberia, to their own native land." ~ Lincoln, speaking in favor of ethnic cleansing all blacks from the United States.

"I cannot make it better known than it already is, that I favor colonization." ~ Lincoln, in a message to Congress, December 1, 1862, supporting deportation of all blacks from America.

"President Lincoln may colonize himself if he choose, but it is an impertinent act, on his part, to propose the getting rid of those who are as good as himself." ~ America's preeminent immediate Abolitionist and advocate of free trade, William Lloyd Garrison.

[Ga.windbreak]

A few more nails in the coffin from this site:


http://www.37thtexas.org/html/Emancipator.html

Abraham Lincoln 1859 [Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, Vol III, pp 399, Basler, ed.]

"Negro equality, Fudge!! How long in the Government of a God great enough to make and maintain this Universe, shall there continue to be knaves to vend and fools to gulp, so low a piece of demagoguism as this?" --

The Confederate War, Gary Gallagher, 1998, Cambridge, Mass.: Harvard University Press:

"The Emancipation Proclamation caused a desertion crisis in the United States Army. At least 200,000 Northern soldiers deserted; another 120,000 evaded conscription; and another 90,000 Northern men fled to Canada to evade the draft, while thousands more hid in the mountains of central Pennsylvania 'where they lay beyond the easy reach of enrolling officers.'"

The following quote has been listed before but, to my knowledge the credit for where it came has not so I've reposted it here.

"A Constitutional View of the Late War between the States," Alexander Stephens , 1870, Philadelphia: National Publishing Co.:

"When asked by Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens at the 1865 Hampton Roads 'peace' conference what would become of the freedmen without property or education, Lincoln sarcastically recited the words to a popular minstrel song, 'root, hog or die.'"

Overland Monthly and Out West magazine/Volume 9, Issue 52, San Francisco, 1887, pp. 540, 541 - "An Episode of the Civil War," John T. Doyle

"At another time, Mr. Lincoln publicly recommended Central America to a delegation of blacks who waited on him, as suited by climate and so forth to colonization by their people.

In the fall of 1862 there appeared in New York a certain Mr. Koch, with a queer story and a queer project...he had conceived the project of taking to Santo Domingo a colony of blacks from the United States, procuring a grant of land, and settling them on it, to raise cotton.

Mr. Lincoln was entirely captivated by it; ...The President made a contract with him (Koch) for the transportation of the first colony of blacks, four hundred in number, to his (Koch's) island of La Veche, at the price, I think, of $100 per head; to be paid, one half when the colonists had embarked, and the other half when they were safely landed on the island.

Before many months were over, the President was constrained as a matter of mere humanity to send a vessel of war after the poor fellows, and the remainder of them was brought back and landed in Boston.

The last thing I heard of them was a public meeting under violent anti-slavery auspices to denounce the brutal and inhuman conduct of President Lincoln, in sending these poor men into exile; and one or two of the negroes themselves appeared at the meeting in support of the resolutions!

Such is the truth of what really happened.

[williamlayton]

You deny any approach that would include slavery as a central point of disagreement in this war and continue too project racism too the North as if too say that it WAS a central theme.
I am lost on your reasoning.
If it is too show that the North had as much contradiction within itself as the South did---I agree.
Racism was rampant and all historians agree. It is still rampant though the edge goes the other way now, IMO.
That does not show that there was a tremendous outcry from both the North and South too end this practice.
It was the end of a way of life and it dug hard at the South. Don't tell me what too do, was a common response.
If it was too be a Union, it had too be abolished.
If it was not too be a Union, it would have too be won. It didn't.
Perplexity, contradiction and all other reasoning aside we come too the point of the arrow, Finally.
Blessings

[Graybeard]

William in case you've not yet figured it out you are mostly talking to yourself here. Most of the guys posting to these threads have already put you on ignore and cannot even see much less respond to your postings. To see who has you on ignore click your name and look at your profile. There is a link there to the ignore options and it tells who you are ignoring and who is ignoring you. I think almost all who are involved here other than me have you on ignore.

[Gary G]

Not me William. I think "liberty" gives you the right to say whatever you like and to be as hardheaded as you wish. lol