Over the counter muzzleloader recommendations

[Double D]

I am considering adding a Muzzleloader to my hunting rifle inventory and need some input on what to look for. I do have specific criteria in my mind for the rifle I would like to find. so here goes. Look at my list and tell me what gun I should look for.

• Must be an over the counter gun, i.e. CVA, TC, Lyman, etc
• Percussion
• 50 cal
• wood stock
• Iron hardware
• Shotgun butt--no hook/crescent butt

I am looking a new or used guns so discontinued models are fine.  What do you Gents suggest? [/list]

[Shawnee Gene]

Try to find a TC Renegade in good condiion.  It has all of the attributes you listed.

[coyotejoe]

That requirement of a "shotgun Butt" really limits your options. The suggestion for a T/C Renegade is good but they haven't been made for quite a while and I'm very leary of used muzzleloaders since most, by far the most, used ML rifles I've seen have had badly pitted bores, even though they may show very little use and look fine on the outside. I just recently bought a T/C New Englander from someone on this site and the bore looked like a piece of cast iron sewer pipe, otherwise it would fit your requirements. The only current production that comes to mind would be the Lyman Deer Stalker, it is made in .50 and .54 caliber, right and left hand, nice walnut stock, has a flat butt with recoil pad and makes a handy hunting rifle, although I'd prefer a bit more barrel than the 24" tube it carries. Another plus for the Lyman is that any of the "drop-in" accessory barrels made for T/C Hawken will also fit the Lyman. I believe they can be had new for under $300. I consider the Lymans to be an outstanding bargin on today's market, quality fully the equal of T/C at 1/2-2/3 the price.

[Saloon slug]

Try to find a TC Renegade in good condiion.  It has all of the attributes you listed.

+1
 I found one 2 years ago as a kit that had never been assembled. There are Renegades out there in good shape you just have to do a little looking. Good luck

Here is one http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,155915.0.html found it in the clasifieds.

[Swampman]

The only currently made over the counter traditional muzzleloader I'd buy, is the Lyman Great Plains Rifle or the Traditions Mountain Rifle.

[Double D]

Lyman Great plains--No go, crescent buttplate.
Traditions Mountain Rifle--No go, crescent but plate.
TC Renegade--okay
Lyman Deer Stalker--okay
TC New Englander--Okay

How about the Traditions Deer hunter, any comments on that one?

Any others that I should consider.

[Victor3]

 You might look for a used Navy Arms version of this one if you're wanting a light rifle...

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=8298&osCsid=f930c6d72b0a6ee4ce39edf262b2b5d0

 I have the same basic gun but with a mule-ear lock, steel trigger guard and adjustable rear sight. Butt on mine isn't curved as much. I paid ~$250 for it off of Auction Arms lightly used.

 Navy Arms sold a few models with various lock/sight/hardware configurations on this same Pedersoli. I see them come up at auction once in a while.

[coyotejoe]

Try to find a TC Renegade in good condiion.  It has all of the attributes you listed.

+1
 I found one 2 years ago as a kit that had never been assembled. There are Renegades out there in good shape you just have to do a little looking. Good luck

Here is one http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,155915.0.html found it in the clasifieds.

Well, there again, you are gambling on a used muzzleloader sight unseen. Not that people are necessarily trying to pull a rip off, they just don't know how badly their bore has become rust pitted. Even if the gun is only a couple of years old, one instance of neglect is quite enough to get rust started and once started it is very difficult to keep it from growing.
 On the other hand I have gotten a couple of very good deals. A Pedersoli side by side 12 gauge for $350 and a Navy Arms Zouave for about $250 and both appeared to be unfired, inside and out. But it is a gamble. I'd much rather pay a few bucks more for a new rifle.

[quickdtoo]

Cabelas offers a couple iron mounted sporter Hawkens that may work for ya, a 1:24" twist carbine and a 1:48" twist rifle. I've had three of the carbines, they were very accurate. 

Tim

Hunter Hawken

[Semisane]

Sounds to me like you're looking for a Lyman Deerstalker.

        http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/muzzle-loaders/deerstalker-rifle.php

[quickdtoo]

The Deerstalker sounds to me like the right rifle too!!

Tim

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000156033140

[nw_hunter]

Thompson Renegade would be my choice. Lots of good used ones out there worth the money.
Life time war. is a plus and you can drop a GM barrel of your choice like a 62 smoothie, slow twist RB barrel, fast twist conical Barrel, if you don't like the 1/48 twist T/C barrel.

[nw_hunter]

That requirement of a "shotgun Butt" really limits your options. The suggestion for a T/C Renegade is good but they haven't been made for quite a while

You can still buy new T/C Renegade Hunters.
They have a single trigger for hunting, instead of the double set trigger type . They sell for around 350.00 to 400.00 range.

[captchee]

 what price are you looking at ?
 and at what degree of cresant but plate is un acceptable ?
full stock  or half stock ?
 long gun or short  gun ?
 what projectile are you considering using , Conical  or PRB  or both ?

Pedersoli makes a few models in what your looking for  but for the price , you could have a custom gun made
 the CVA , traditions  and lyman  deer stalker , youth hunters and Bobcats all have flat butts and  were avalable with wood stocks .
 Iron hardwear will be the clincher though . with may  of the nice better made  production rifles  if you exsclude the lyman . most all the others are brass mounted
 i guess i would also  wonder why your looking at only production rifles ?

 the best bang for your buck in the production lines  , considering your list , would be the older TC models
 but in custom ?? thats a diffrent story . you could get everything your looking for  and more  for starting at around 7-800 depending on the stock grade .
 but a basic  rifle shouldnt cost you  a whole lot more  and you would have a very good barrel ,  quality lock  and a rifle that better fits you  over the generic  drop and pull .
 if you would like to disuss that option , contact me through PM an ill see what i can come up with

[Double D]

Right now I am just doing research for a buy after the first of the year to add to my hunting opportunities. If I am going to hunt with a muzzleloader it will be a traditional pattern.

Got my eye on the Lyman Deer stalker or the TC Rengade.  I won't get a TC Renegade unless I can personally check the bore myself. 

Thanks fo the tips gents.

[bluecow]

h&r made a muzzle loader that lokked like a spoterized springfield, if you can find one on a auction site buy it.  ofcourse it .58 and not over the counter.  i have a original the had the rifleing removed to make a shotgun out of it.  it's handleing and balance make it my most used m.l. smoothbore is ok.  other than that i would go with the lyman.  also look at rmcsports.com of course its a flinter but one vary fine gun made for hunting not reinacting

[captchee]

  Now see i learn something every day. . I didnt know they made a gun for re-enacting ?
 were not the all made for hunting , self protection or war ? . sure  all in a different time ,.
 war has changed , self protection has changed , but  they all are still very capable for hunting . In fact many IMO better suited for  hunting then many of the contraptions on the market today . not to mention better made  and reliable  then many of those also on the market today .  has hunting really changed all that much maybe lesser game ? but i cant see any way  the rifles of 2,, 3 hundred years ago would be any less effective today .
 so tell me about these re-enacting guns ? i have never seen one . are they made from plastic ,  maybe tin ?
 now i do have here in my shop a reproduction of a 1853 Enfield  that is popular with re-enactors . but i tell you what . stand in front of the muzzle  with a Minnie down it and i guarantee it  will Kill as quickly as any  modern muzzleloader out there .
so is this one of those re-enacting guns or is a  real gun ?
 i guarantee its better built then any A&H . in fact  better then a Lyman to
 So I guess im confused about your statement

[Snowshoe]

Go with the Lyman Deerstalker. I used one for about 17 years or so, and can say that they are a great rifle. I have since gone to a Lyman Trade rifle in .54, and although it is a fine rifle, I miss the quick snap shots provided by the Deerstalker. I would have had a Deerstalker in .54, but they didn't have one in stock and I was getting a .54 cal rifle that day. Another plus for the Deerstalker is the very good sights. I liked them so much that I got a set for my Trade rifle.

[coyotejoe]

That requirement of a "shotgun Butt" really limits your options. The suggestion for a T/C Renegade is good but they haven't been made for quite a while

You can still buy new T/C Renegade Hunters.
They have a single trigger for hunting, instead of the double set trigger type . They sell for around 350.00 to 400.00 range.

Sorry, but that is incorrect, T/C dropped the Renegade Hunter, Pennsylvania Hunter, and New Englander some years ago. The only "traditional" rifle they still list is the Hawken. I got a Penn-hunter on closeout sale about 6 years ago and I think they were closing out the Renegade at about the same time.

[bluecow]

capchee take a look and you will see what i mean.  dont think a flinter with fiber optic sights a laminated stock would be welcome at nssa.   it's still a vary fine gun.  sorry didn't mean to upset;  this is why i do reinact any more

[captchee]

sorry didn't mean to upset

you diont upset me  LOL . i only thought maybe there was someon making  plastic guns out there .
 i bet i restock 10 to 20 of those plastic guns , every year

[DEACONLLB]

What about the tc gray hawk stainless there are some out there for around 150-175. friend has one and says it is the best he has ever shot. I looked at one in a pawn shop looked very nice for 160 and also met a fellow at the last gun show that had one for 175 looked new and had a 75.00 peep sight.
Lots of great muzzleloaders out there you just have to look.
Deaconllb

[nw_hunter]

That requirement of a "shotgun Butt" really limits your options. The suggestion for a T/C Renegade is good but they haven't been made for quite a while

You can still buy new T/C Renegade Hunters.
They have a single trigger for hunting, instead of the double set trigger type . They sell for around 350.00 to 400.00 range.

Sorry, but that is incorrect, T/C dropped the Renegade Hunter, Pennsylvania Hunter, and New Englander some years ago. The only "traditional" rifle they still list is the Hawken. I got a Penn-hunter on closeout sale about 6 years ago and I think they were closing out the Renegade at about the same time.

Look in the Possibles Shop online cat. They still have new Renegade Hunters for sale for 410.00.