sks question.

[lil_hunter12]

does anyone who hunts with one of these ever have trouble finding blood trails? i shot a deer yesterday at 75 yards with a remington express 125grain soft point the deer just laid down then after a minute jumped up and took off. within 300 yards i found 4 places it had laid down no blood watsoever anywhere has any body had any similar experiences. if so what have ammo did u change to so u could kill a deer easier?
thanks guys

[DCRthe3rd]

now this might get me some trouble , but so be it.
Didn't people give you suggestions before? You know , it was that same thread where you were pulling some real unbelieveable groups with said sks , and I think you were going to shoot out to 200yds or something

It laid down in 4 spots within 300yds? Really? wonder why it did that?
it would appear that you either missed "hopefully" , or you botched the shot and hit the deer all wrong
either way , I feel there is more to this whole subject than meets the eye
fwiw , the wolf 154gr sp comes out the other side of a deer , I suggest that load , and pracrice and a max distance of 100 , no , make that 50yds. At least for now

[DCRthe3rd]

and only to show what i base my comment on , here is that thread
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,153705.msg1098676738.html#msg1098676738

[hillbill]

the sks is fully capable of killin deer with the bullet yur useing.even with bad shot placement. did yu allow time for the deer to lay down and die? if yu chase them right off after the shot they will run much longer.possibly yu hit him with a full length shot and the bullet didnt exit? if thats the case there wouldnt be a lot of blood.even on a pass thru sometimes the blood can be very faint if yur not used to what to look for.i always like to give a deer plenty of time to lay and bleed even on a shot i know was good.bet if yu know yu made a good shot and yu go over the area agin yull find the deer.jus chalk it up to experience and learn from it.

[lil_hunter12]

i tried to find the wolf 154 grain but i could not find them in my area and couldnt order by te single box anywhere. i know i hit it high and a little farther back than planned the sot was 75 yards broadside but the scope i had on it bottomed out sighting in so it was a little off a couple inches to the right i didnt think of it. so i held behind the shoulder kind of high hoping to drop her for good in the one spot. she dropped so i assumed she was down for the count so i went on up she jumped up and was gone. but i never found a drop of blood.

[Totenkopf]

Sounds like a gut shot deer to me. If you have trouble with a hunting rifle and cannot get it straightened out, it needs to go to a gunsmith before it ever goes to the woods. I am sincerely not trying to flame you. It is very irresponsible to take any firearm out hunting that is not in peak condition. I'm sure someone here can tell you how to shim the scope or mount. A gut shot deer bleeds very little reguardless of caliber.   

[hillbill]

most scope mounts ive seen for the sks were completey worthless and produced the same problems yu had sighting in yours. throw away that scope and mount and learn how to shoot it well with the iron sights.they are a  fairly accurate gun, or at least good enuf to hit the vital zone on a deer out to 100 yrds or so.if yu need a scoped rifle then save yur nickels till yu can afford a more modern rifle made to accept a scope.you will never regret doing it.

[cbxboy]

Lil_Hunter,

This post might seem hot but I am reading it as posted.....I'll get some heat as well here.  Honestly I could care less that you didn't find the deer.  Its a bummer I agree and its a great experience to move forward and hone skills and choices for the future.  I do not like to yell at you on having a deer hit that will eventually die because htere are MILLIONS of hunters who do the same thing.  I can't fix them all.

Ok, as to the SKS as a choice and the 7.62x39 round as a choice in hunting.  Can it be done?  Sure....I've taken deer with an SKS but ended up shotting the blazes out of them and STILL tracking for ever.  I would really prefer you to buy an old Milsurp like an Enfield in .303, a Mauser in (any of the Mauser calibers) 8mm, a Mosin in 7.62x54r or maybe a K31 in 7.5 Swiss (great choice actually)

The reason I make this suggestion is when the shot does not place exactly as you wish, your damage is much more severe and easier to follow, mor trauma to the actual deer.

Gotta grab the phone........   

[lil_hunter12]

i knew exactly how the gun was shooting i know how to fix the problem now anyway i went to an uncles house to get help in looking for the deer and during he told me to change my setup also. now the rifle is being traded off so I can either get a mosin mauser or other larger caliber rifle I like. this rifle has nothing wrong with the shooting i think i got to excited and pulled the shot and then realized the small caliber and didnt put another one in her.

[Totenkopf]

 Good decision bud. My grandpa gave me a little advise when I was starting out, aim small miss small. I provided a link  that has some red dots over aiming points. Next time before you shoot take a deep breath exhale half and pull trigger slowly while on the exact center of the chest. Practice this on target shooting and it will become routine. Pick out the smallest possible area to strike in the center. Imagine you only have a 1" target to hit. Shooting the center will give you the largest room for error just in case. But I firmly believe you will not have any error the next time.
 http://www.bowhunting.net/artman/publish/WorthingtonCh4.shtml
You may want to start a new thread on what rifle to get in your price range. There are probably a lot of guys here that can recomend the best bang for the buck.
Good Luck

[30-30man]

 I've shot many deer in my lifetime and only a few fell right on the spot.  Most leave a good blood trail and then some don't.  I had one last year that bled in wide long splotches for about 200 yards, then all of a sudden it stopped.  I never found that deer and really suspect someone carried it off. The trail ended in a large puddle. I was using hollow point 150 grain in the 30-30.  I suspect that they expanded too rapidly to kill the animal quickly... After that, I started using the heaviest grain bullet I could find and switched rifles.  I use a Mosin with 180-203 grain bullets. They seem to have more shock in my experience. So far, I've harvested two deer this year with my 91/30 and they didn't run more than a few yards....The 203 grain bullets waste a lot of meat...I'll probably scale the bullets back some...  There are much better rifles out there.  If you must go millitary surplus, you could buy a nice Mauser and scope for what sks' are bringing now. I won't reccomend a Mosin because you are young and a Mosin doesn't have the best safety....I've seen SKS' go for $350 in the shops around me and now they are sold out. You might be able to get $400 if you meet the right person...All the shops are sold out of them, advertise high and then bargin.   It's a prime time to sell the SKS and buy something better......My advice is to get a Marlin 30-30 (recoil very close to the SKS and much more accurate)  or Mossberg ATR  These two guns would be night and day better than a SKS....Good luck

[lil_hunter12]

what are good condition chinese bringing right now?

[Mikey]

(1) Never change horses in mid-stream.  Learn from your experience. 

(2) Practice field shooting positions and trigger control.

(3) There is nothing wrong with the SKS rifle.  It is old technology (1943) but reliable, and effective with sufficient accuracy. 

(4) Considering the current political situation and the cost to replace it I would suggest you master that rifle and keep it; well supplied, too.  Mikey.

[lil_hunter12]

i am an excellent shot with this rifle at that range but when i see a deer a get excited and shaky and i barely can keep it on even with a scope it is very hard to hit them the reason i miss the first shot i tend to be accurate on te 2nd the exact reason i felt i put a descent shot on te deer. but obviously i didnt. maybe i should practice with it but still i dont like the rifle very well. if one doesnt like something one cant do well with it.

[cbxboy]

Whew....long phone call.  Actually didn't want to leave a bad taste, I see that has not happened

As MIkey states, KEEP the SKS.  I carry one when beating slashings, I just know I won't shoot just once  

Love the choice on adding an additional option.  I started at a few and then a few more and then a bunch more and then, well, umm TOTAL mayhem!! 

I would love to steer you towards a nice 91/30 as above poster likes.  I have one and boy does it shoot!  If you are on "stand" this is a whole lot of rifle but has much capability.  You can get a nice refurb for $80 ish range and ship, FFL etc.  A decent Scout set up will get you mapping well.  OR better yet a mauser variant as you mentioned.....I have become particularly interested in the 24/47 Yugos, mine shoots like a dream.  Alhtough I have numerous Mausers that perform VERY well indeed at hunting ranges out to 150 (my range is short remember) and probably longer, never tried.

Revamp, learn, move on.  Deer are overgrown rats and I hate em.  I am in MN and the herd is not threatened by a few errant shots.  Remember a lower torso shot will get plugged with "tallow" and the bleeding will stop...or not even start.  Believe it or not Humans can plug gut wounds with fat as well.....nature at its finest!  We are programmed to survive.

I would also be a fan of using heavy grains as well, the ft lbs of energy distrubuted is a key to causing shock to the "target".  This can be attained 2 ways.....speed or mass.....or both!!  But you won't speed us that 7.62 by much.  You'd run out of room packing powder   Faster powder-lighter grain would speed it but its to much work to mess with IMHO.

KEEP YOUR SKS, NONE of mine are for sale.  The SKS's will be "first" on the list as they have a bad rap already

Great attitude by the way....Kudos to you for understanding our suggestions.

[cbxboy]

LilHunter,

I'm feeling the holiday spirit coming on, where you at?  I can send you a coulpe boxes of 154 grains if you pay shipping.  I am thankful for all the crap I already own, don't shoot much 154 grain anyway.

I will only do so when I am driving BY the UPS depot however and that is about 20 miles away from my office.

(P.S.)  Don't post your address just State!  I'll estimate shipping.

[lil_hunter12]

i live in kentucky. everyone is in te holiday spirit this year. the parents gave a nice little safe and told me if i sold the sks they'd pitch in and buy a handi rifle in 30-06.

[cbxboy]

I once shipped 40 rounds of 3.06 ro Alabama or soemwhere closer to you and it was $12 something.....heck you could buy the 2 boxes for that!  I'll hold up my end if you pay ship!  I'm just afraid you could buy for same price.

A handi in .06??  Good call....I like my Rossi singles as wel.  I have in in x39 of course!  You know I have been real pleased with my singles and sporting a simmmons 3x9x50 they are 1" if I do my part. 

You'd make a good choice on that .06 or other "larger caliber" single.  Keep you SKS is still my opinion.....ok I'll trade you square up on a rossi single ok?  (Get it its a bad deal thats why I'm willing to trade)  I'm NOT going to do this but my point is you can buy a "starter" single for $200 up to much higher.  The cheap one for $170's range, a scope and 5 boxes of shells will be a total of $335 roughly and you will be spot on after shooting 100 rounds.  You can drop $400 on a nice bolt rifle and not hit a dang thing until AFTER you shoot 100 rounds 

Shooting sure is fun isn't it?  Ever shoot baloons on a windy day?  Let them go in a gravl pit or tie them on a branch and then shoot them at a "relative" distance.  Makes for good shooting!   You shoot 50 ballons in various winds and various distances and you'll not miss those deer again!

[Mikey]

Lil_hunter12:  Ok, you mentioned some important facts.  First is you get all nervous and skakey when you bring the sight up - you will eventually calm down.  Buck fever is pretty rampant this time of year and it is not something to get totally upset about.  Ask some bow hunters how often they miss their first, or even 2nd and 3rd shots.....

You also said you don't like the rifle - what don't you like about it??  Do you use hearing protection if you have problems with the muzzle blast?  Does the rifle not fit you properly?  Stock too long or grip too big???  These things can be fixed - I have always felt the SKS stocks could use lots of improvement and let's not forget these things were first designed by the Russians and may well be oversized for an average guy.  The triggers on those little beaties are also not the best, but they can be easily improved. 

If you are accurate with your follow-up shots, at least on paper, use the same techniques for your first shot, and practice. 

cbxboy's 3rdf paragraph says a lot.  Yes, you can get a bigger rifle but if anxiousness and flinching cause you to miss with the SKS you will be really unhappy with yourself when you miss with the bigger rifle. 

I have a couple of old Swedish WWII semi-autos in 6.5 Swede - I had to get a replacement stock (another original) because the original stocks were just too big and clummsy (? sp) for me and I couldn't shoot the rifle well - I reworked the replacement stock until I had a proper griop size (for me) and a reduced front stock for a better support grip until I could bring it to bear with one hand (by having a proper grip) and then i could shoot the darn thing a lot better. 

SKS stocks are usually Chinese Maple or Birch and can be worked easily.  It is your rifle - if it doesn't fit you properly, make it fit.  Practice with it, wear hearing protection and tell yourself that the next time out you are just going to center your cross-hairs on that Whitetail and bring it home.  Go for it.  Mikey.

[lil_hunter12]

the rifle is just to small it is a chinese make it's to short the stock isnt long enough the grip is good trigger is good. have no problem with muzzle blast. i have a shotgun i use slugs with sometimes it fits right i tend to make one shot kills never miss. i ave used other 3006 rifles that fit proper no problem making the shot. maybe my problem is the rifle is just to short and light.

[hillbill]

ive seen a thick rubber buttpad that added about 2 in to the lenthg of the stock on the sks, they really make the gun fit a lot better.im with yu on getting the 06 tho, i think yu would be better off in the long run with it.yu could load 100 grn hornady short jackets with a light powder load for plinking and varmits and then go with the 150 grns for everything else. its just hard to beat a 06.

[lil_hunter12]

i dont have a lot of time or cash to spend shooting or a place to do so anymore. so i was thinking the 06 so i would be able to deer hunt and if ever i get drawn for an elk tag i would need more gun than i now have. so that would be the only reason to buy the 06 vs keeping the sks.

[cjclemens]

The 7.62x39 is pretty close in performance to the 30-30, which has been downing deer since its inception.  There's no reason to give up on the SKS.  Inside 100 yards, they are accurate and potent enough to do the job.  Use good quality ammo with expanding bullets. Spend time sighting it in, and know how it performs on paper.  Mine shoots a 4" group @ 100 which is not great, but definitely good enough.  Understand that shooting at an angle (like down a hillside or down out of a treestand) will change your point of impact.  Let's not forget that the key to successful hunting is good marksmanship.

[lil_hunter12]

the shot was uphill not steeply so but was uphill. ill probably give it another try. i think i might need to try that extended recoil pad to add length find a better scope mount i have an idea about securing it better. any1 know anything about tap and die sets? but also try a different bullet. thanks for all your inputs guys. also what is you guy's thoughts on whitebox russian hollow points?

[cbxboy]

Keep the SKS, save for the 30.06......ok a mount for the SKS, I have a Norinco mount which has the side screws to tighten the dust cover to the receiver-seems to help. Better scope?  personally a 4x fixed would be a fine choice...heck a 2.5 fixed would be fine out to 100yds as well.  Don't go hog wild as your mount is not ideal ---unless of course by tap and die you mean boring into the receiver.  How fast can you say resell value $100 vs $250?

Russian white box hollowpoint?  Good plinking ammo.  In MN we need to use soft points...although I would argue the point in x39 as the velocity may not even expand it and cause more damage.  I think you may be putting too much on the ammo.  I will stand by my statement, shoot 500 rounds and you can hit anything you wish to hit.  I have some REAL ugly firearms that by nature wouldn't be a great choice.  After full familiarization and INTEGRATION of you and your rifle you will be able to call your shot with great accuracy....maybe not 2" groups but you'll do fine.

I may sound reckless to some buy at a sand pit chosen for its safety we have done amazing tests..this includes firing pistols with eyes closed and balloons with the rifles....ya'll can laugh all you want........try it!  With unfamiliar pistols a man target a 30 ft is hard to even hit anywhere......with my Sig and Star BM, I do quite well by memory.  View your target, close your eyes, wait a few seconds, pull up and tap.   Balloons ar ementioned above, no helium obviously and wind is needed.

[lil_hunter12]

i may try this with the sks. i have a simmons 4x scope for it i was told by an uncle that does alot of work with guns especially scoped rifles e told me to turn one of my rings around backwards. that would straighten out my problem and let it move to the left more. also on the tap and die set i was thinking of using one with my mount which is not a dustcover mount but it goes over the dust cover i was wanting to drill wanting to drill the reciever and mount to make a very sturdy permanent mount.

[R.W.Dale]

the SKS and the round it's chambered for are more than up to the task of killing deer at the ranges mentioned in this thread. You would gain nothing by buying a Moisin or Mauser.

 I suspect the problem lies with the scope mounting system you employed. Practically all SKS scope mounts are worthless garbage that at BEST will cause you to miss a deer completely. Forget scopes forget the cheesy factory sights with thier dinky handgun like sight radius and invest $50 in a Tech Sight for your rifle. These sights are the best aftermarket product mankind has yet devised for the SKS I promise they'll increase your accuracy 100%

http://www.tech-sights.com/sks.htm

essentially m16 sights for your SKS

more on my use of 7.62x39 on deer.
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,155958.0.html
at over 250yds

[30-30man]

I'm afraid that you've already lost confidence in your equipment. The SKS is a great rifle but as mentioned above is hard to scope correctly.  The Choate mount is another option, it's a drill an tap product.  Many of the ones you talk to on this board have many different rifles, including myself.  Most of them would not pick a SKS as their only hunting rig. Many have told you to keep the SKS.  That's great advice if you have the funds to buy something else. A Savage Stevens, Marlin, Mossberg would make a much better hunting rig.   I love the SKS, I own four of them and hunt with them on occassion.  I would not want it to be my only rifle though.  The SKS will bring a premium right now with the election of all the Democrats.  If you want something else and funds are tight, now is the time. You can be proficient with any rifle after a couple of trips to the range.

[Larry Gibson]

lil_hunter12


I'm going to be a little harsh here.  First you say; "i am an excellent shot with this rifle at that range". Then you say; "maybe i should practice with it but still i dont like the rifle very well. if one doesnt like something one cant do well with it."  An "excellent shot" can shoot well with any rifle whether he "likes" it or not.  Like has nothing to do with marksmanship.  The maximum range of that excuse is 0 yards.  Quit blaming the rifle and trying to make excuses. It is your fault you only wounded the deer and then could not find it.  Own up to that and accept the resposibility for it. Then YOU can learn from YOUR mistakes, not the rifles.

Your problem is self stated; "but when i see a deer a get excited and shaky and i barely can keep it on even with a scope it is very hard to hit them the reason i miss the first shot i tend to be accurate on te 2nd the exact reason i felt i put a descent shot on te deer. but obviously i didnt."  Yes maybe you should practice more. Did you use a rest? Did you even try to use a rest or did you just start shooting off hand?  You had "buck fever" and obviously had it bad.  First rule of shooting at game is if you can't make the shot, don't take the shot.  Not being "able to barely keep the scope on it" is not being able to make the shot.  Shooting AT a deer doesn't cut it.  You must shoot at the heart lung area on the deer. 

Getting another higher powered rifle is not going to solve your problem.  The SKS with it's 7x39 cartridge using the 125 gr Remington is quite capable of killing deer farther away that 75 yards but the bullet must be put into the heart/lung area, not "the deer".  That means YOU must be able to shoot. It is quite obvious you can shoot (a monkey can be trained to "shoot") but just can't hit anything.  You need to learn how to shoot that rifle and you need to learn how to shoot deer and where to shoot them before you go hunting again.  Shooting practice is more than just shooting, it is learning to consistently hit a target.  Having your rifle zeroed is also a requirement which you failed to have done before hunting. Before you learn those things and can do them you are just going to wound more deer.  Do the homework, study and then take the test. Right now you are ass backwards.

Larry Gibson
[/quote]

[lil_hunter12]

I do take responsiblility for wounding the deer and it bothers me terribly. i had practiced what i thought was plenty i shot 50 or so rounds from it to know how it was shooting and had intended on using strictly my open sights and ad forgotten to remove the scope since it was as accurate as i wanted. when i shot the deer i was on my way in and for some reason had not loaded my gun so i searched and found a shell in my pocket fired at the deer running i missed just under for some reason she stopped so i found another shell and took my time in an offhand position for some reason my scope came to attention and i used it squeezed the shot off obviously a little far back and higher than i had hoped. but i didnt realize that until she was gone and i couldnt get another one into her by the time i realized it and got another shell in. i rushed in quicker than i should have to look for her. i looked probably 3 hours along with my hunting partner over the mountain side that she ran to. even down into the creeks. tried and tried to at least get another sighting of her to put her on the ground for good. but we couldnt find anything from her we immediately went home afterwards to check the gun. but something came up never got to check it yet.