Author Topic: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?  (Read 2613 times)

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Offline SHOOTALL

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do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« on: November 24, 2008, 05:11:12 AM »
Been wanting to ask this for some time , I hunt places where we must use shot guns and feel it the best tool alot of the time. What do ya'll think ? I will defend that statement later .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline ironglow

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2008, 05:29:10 AM »
  Not really, shootall; I live in western NY State. Until recently, rifle hunting for big game was restricted to the Adirondack and the Catskill mtn areas. A couple years ago, the state legislature started to "see the light" and have since legalized Rifle for nearly the whole southern tier of counties, so now I use rifles. Where I hunt a rifle is not really necessary, what with very hilly terrain and thick woods. Most of the deer I have harvested in my life were at 40-60 yards, well within shotgun range.
   I switched to rifle because I like rifles, not because a shotgun with slugs was in any way deficient. About 12 miles north of me are the counties that still demand shotgun w/slug, hunters there have switched to rifled barrels and sabots, coming close in range to many rifles.
 Some experienced hunters in my own county have not given up the slugs for a rifle. It would take quite a rifle to equal the knock down power of a 12 ga slug.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2008, 06:55:16 AM »
We are limited to buckshot in some areas and have little problem.
I posted because some seem to think we are at a disadvantage and i don't feel we are in alot of cases . we hunt areas where a 30 yard shot is all you get , where a rifle would be hard to use .
And i agree a slug is alot of knock down .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline burntmuch

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2008, 07:06:58 AM »
Not at all. This year I hunted right on the line between rifle & shotgun zone.  Ended up using my muzzleloader one day in shot gun zone, the next day I crossed the road 200 yards north of me & hunted with my rem 700 35 whelen. With the sabot slugs & inline Muzzleloaders, I dont think there is any disadvantage.
I dont care what gun Im using as long as Im hunting

Offline alsaqr

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2008, 07:58:34 AM »
 
Quote
I hunt places where we must use shot guns and feel it the best tool alot of the time.


I often hunt on 14,000 acres where centerfire rifles are not allowed.  Only shotguns with slugs and muzzleloaders are allowed.  I always hunt with a muzzleloader on that place.  Have killed dozens of hogs and about 20 deer there with my .50 muzzleloaders.  Have also killed a lot of hogs with a .22 LR and a .22 magnum on that place.   


Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2008, 09:43:28 AM »
when  i first  moved  to Florida  in 77
over half  the people used buck shot  [and  few slugs]
now  seems  like  more  than  half rifles  now  [and  few shotgun  slugs]

our  deer  are  small  and brush  thick
but  the  hog  hunters use buck shot  too
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Offline myronman3

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2008, 03:05:33 PM »
nope.   the county i lived in when i was a kid was shotgun only for the first two days, then it was rifle for the next seven days.  we killed lots of deer back then.   it also led to the development of shotgun mounted scopes, and i have one of the first removable shotgun scope mounts ever commercially made.  my uncle worked for outers, and the prototype still sits on my mossberg 500 20 ga.  no scope in it right now though.   anyway, it worked like a charm.   you would be amazed at what a shotgun can do when you figure out the right combination.    of course grandpa laughed at us scoping a shotgun.   

Offline victorcharlie

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2008, 03:40:19 PM »
Yes, I feel sorry for the guys who's state denies them to hunt with a centerfire rifle.  Why?  I always hear the term deer rifle, but never deer shotgun.
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Offline Foggy

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2008, 04:58:36 PM »
Don't feel sorry for me .. I use a shotgun alot by choice . and please don't tell my 12ga Ithaca Deerslayer is not a deer shotgun it surely would need therapy. alot of times Shotgun only areas have a larger population  of people, houses barns etc. People and thinking tend to evolve I seen rifle areas go shotgun  only and from slugs or buckshot to buckshot only. And from shotgun only to allow rifles. I just flat love to hunt. Ever hunt deer with a paint ball gun?? great fun in the off season.
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Offline nomosendero

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2008, 03:15:14 PM »
Yes I do. It is not because the weapon handicaps them, so I don't feel this way because the gun is not as effective. It is to me like VC said. I live in rural AR & go out West a good bit. I am used to being in more remote country & can't imagine not being "allowed" to hunt with a rifle, even if I chose a handgun or whatever I wish. In fact, I shoot rather serious rifles in my back yard. It just seems that it is another freedom lost. If that happened where I live (which I doubt), I am not sure, but there is a good chance I would move. It's kinda like being nutured or something.
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Offline no guns here

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2008, 11:38:10 PM »
Heck no!  Heck yes!  No, I don't feel sorry for them because they are "handicapped" by it or anything like that.  We all know that most deer are killed well within modern slug range.  In the west it's a little different but still doable to get in range.  Yes, because they live somewhere that is full of communists (or demoncrats if you prefer) that over legislate crap like this.  Heck, here in Germany we have drive hunts within a few hundred meters of a towns and houses with 40-50 shooters with everything from shotguns/slugs up to .375 H&H.  Very few problems at all.  We all discuss safe shots and unsafe shots, directions to shoot etc before each hunt. 


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Offline Sensai

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2008, 12:57:23 AM »
I live in one of those places and I feel sorry for me.  It's not that I don't like shotguns, but I like to know exactly where my rounds are going.  I know where the bullet is going to stop before I pull the trigger on a rifle.  With buckshot, I think that I know the general area.  I feel that I am restricted by regulations that are based on emotions and not facts.  Our enlightened leaders also restrict handgun deer hunting to "those areas where rifles are legal".  Communist bassages!!

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Offline Oldtimer

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2008, 02:50:23 AM »
No Guns Here mentioned practices in Germany.  I remember riding a bus through Thuringia and being surprised at how close to the road the shooting houses were.  They have really strict requirements for getting a license, including tests on the anatomy of game animals  and actual shooting tests.

Last night, I had a shot at six deer, who were standing, looking at me about 80 yards across an open field.  In the background were a windbreak and some houses.  I was using a .30-06 with 150 grain bullets.  I took the shot standing and dropped a button buck. 

Hunting takes a lot of discipline and split second decision making.  I have done a lot of offhand shooting, in the field on game, and in competition.  I was comfortable with the shot and had no intention of spraying and praying.  If for no other reason, I prefer meat that has been taken from an animal that has not been pumped full of adrenalin.

Now if I had used a smoothbore shotgun, the shot would have been beyond the range that my Mossberg 500 will handle. My Marlin Slugmaster would have handled it with no problems, but then the houses would have been in range.  A Foster slug might have reached them, too.  Buckshot would have not, but the distance was way beyond the range I would consider using it.

Most people hunt in my area, and if locals hunt, we don't worry much about careless shooting.  The ones who do that tend to use each other as targets.  If we worry, it is about people who come into the area to hunt.  Virginia requires that one have permission to hunt, even on unposted property, so that keeps down the number of people who just park behind a barn and then take to the field.  A similarly sized county to the east of us is shotgun only (muzzleloaders also allowed for deer hunting).  There are no more or less instances of houses or livestock being hit in either county, so I don't see that requiring shotguns only helps.

Offline Old Syko

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2008, 02:58:09 AM »
I do feel sorry for those who face restrictions such as shotgun only but only from a standpoint of freedom lost.  The ones I really feel sorry for are the guys who go out with a 300 Win Mag with a high X scope to hunt where 40 and 50 yd. shots are the norm.  These guys just don't get it. ::)

Offline Glanceblamm

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2008, 02:58:39 AM »
I come from a shotgun only state and my main gripe (in those early years) is that I never owned one accurate enough to hunt with. On some that I owned the groups could be atrocious as close as 20yds with some of the better ones doing poorly at 50yds. I knew that there was some good smooth bores out there that would shoot those rifled slugs well but I never owned one and ended up starting my deer hunting with a .50 muzzleloader which was great!

I think that the first break through for the public in general on the slug guns was the introduction of the Marlin model 512 sometime in the 80's....this was a very affordable shotgun with a rifled barrel and would shoot 100yd groups of under 4" @ 100yds with those Rem copper slugs. After this, it seemed that the slug guns kept getting better & better with the saybo's & all and I dont think that todays slug gun hunter is at any disadvantage for ranges of 100yds & under. I still did not change over cause my .50 cal was knocking the socks off those deer.
Our State started allowing us to use hanguns in the regular season for at least six years now and that is all that I have taken for the last 5yrs.

Offline S.E.Ak

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2008, 03:11:14 AM »
I believe it gives them the chance to become better deer hunters as opposed to deer shooters. Of course in Texas your gun only needs to shoot stright as far as you put your feeder from your stand

Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2008, 04:25:45 AM »
most  hunting  accidents  i  know  of  were  shot guns [buck shot] in  my  county

where  almost any thing  is  legal
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
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Offline ironglow

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2008, 11:52:30 AM »
  I must amend my first post..I would feel misused if I were in a "buckshot only" situation..
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Offline Heather

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2008, 01:54:34 PM »
I feel sorry for anyone who has lost their freedoms. 

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Offline SDS-GEN

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2008, 02:00:31 PM »
Don't feel sorry for me.  I've never killed a deer with a rifle.  I've also killed at least one deer every year since I started hunting whitetails with either a slug gun, muzzleloader, or bow.  I killed a nice 10 pointer last weekend with a muzzle loader at about 40 yards.  I've been on a few hunts out west where a short range weapon would have been limiting, but in the thorny thickets of Illinois and Iowa a good slug gun works very well.

Offline torpedoman

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2008, 03:25:33 PM »
I used to hunt in the dismal swamps on the va -nc line and a rifle would have been useless a good 12 guage with eithe 00 buck or a slug had more range than you could use.
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Offline Oldtimer

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2008, 05:08:29 PM »
Torpedoman,
Know what you mean.  I have hunted in that area, too.  Some of the brush is so thick you'd have to back up to change your mind.

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2008, 07:31:41 PM »
I feel sorry about the trigger feel on those shotguns. A nice rifle trigger will spoil a guy. A good slug barrel matched to a good sabot is a lethal deer slayer in about any deer woods. A fella adjusts his tactics accordingly, hunt on the same side of the corn field as the deer for example.

I do much prefer a rifle though, it's the right tool for the job," Everything is a hammer but a hammer isn't everything" comes to mind.
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Offline jager

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2008, 05:29:20 AM »
   Over the years I have lived and hunted in states that were shotgun or black powder only for deer. I thought it kind of funny that the same states allowed center fire rifles for varmint hunting. I mostly used muzzle loaders in those states and always enjoyed the hunt. However, I did feel "slighted" that I couldn't use a rifle to take deer, because a rifle is my favorite type of firearm.
   It is interesting how sophisticated shotguns and BP guns have become due to the restrictions. American ingenuity at its finest :)

Offline Sourdough

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2008, 08:27:06 AM »
Because not all hunters are ethical and sensible unfortunately, there are areas that do need restrictions.  In those areas 30 to 60 yards is the norm.  With modern hunting shotguns with rifled barrels and rifle accuracy out to 150 yards, there is no disadvantage to the hunter.  It's also better than having that area shut down to hunting.

Right now there is and area around Fairbanks that is closed to Moose hunting with anything except archery.  Not enough Moose are being taken, they are becoming a problem for traffic and pedestrians.  I have submitted proposals to open this area to hunting with a shotgun.  The proposal was disapproved due to the advances made with modern shotguns.  The Game Board Advisory Committee feels they have too much range.  Still working on this issue.
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Offline Spanky

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2008, 11:52:53 AM »
We are not restricted to shotguns here in upstate NY but I use my 20 gauge alot of the time anyway.
Alot of the woods are thick here and a 75 yd. shot is a long one.
At that range the shotgun shoots just as good as my rifles.

I might catch some flack for saying this but I think at close range the shotgun slugs hit alot harder.

I've shot deer at close range with my .35 Whelen and had no expansion to speak of.
Exit hole hardly any bigger than entrance hole.
That's shooting 250 grain Core Lokt's
A buck shot through the ribs at 20 yds. acted like he wasn't hit until he fell over dead.

I shot a doe with my 20 gauge at 25 yds. or so and she acted like she got hit by a truck.
Slam bang on the ground.
Same shot behind the shoulder through the ribs.
Completely different reaction.

I know that's only one example but it showed me something about slugs at close range.


At long range I bring a rifle.
Up close I use a shotgun.




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Offline victorcharlie

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2008, 03:09:04 PM »
" Everything is a hammer but a hammer isn't everything" comes to mind.

Yes, and if all you have is a hammer then everything starts looking like a nail.
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Offline Cement Man

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2008, 05:23:49 PM »
I can't say I feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns. 

I live in a shotgun state, but hunt several rifle states as well.  I prefer a rifle overwhelmingly - more versatile,  longer range, accurate, handles better as a rule, and better trigger.  But, shotgun slugs and barrels have come a long way. Most places I hunt, 150 yards is an exceptionally long shot - so proper shotguns with proper ammo will cover most needs very well.  I just traded off my bolt Mossberg 695 - very accurate, handled well - trigger was like dragging a 2X4 through rocks.  Sent it back to Mossberg and asked if any improvement was possible.  They sent it back - same way I sent it in.  I could still shoot it very accurately but it was ugly to have to use something like that.  I have a few rifled NEF single shots that just amaze me with their accuracy and low price.  Nice triggers too for such an inexpensive gun.  The cost of sabot slugs though is just goofy at $2+ per shot. 

It also amazes me that somebody isn't making a mid-priced bolt slug gun of some decent quality like the Browning A bolt slug gun was.  It's either the $300 rig with some things left to be desired or the $3000 Tar Hunt.  Seems like there could be a decent bolt slug gun in the $700 range?

I am mostly using my Savage smokeless muzzleloader in Illinois now.  $0.46 per shot, awesome power and accuracy, great trigger, 200 yard capability.  With the 300 grain XTP's through the ribs and lungs, I have been very impressed with how quickly deer expire.
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Offline JBlk

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2008, 02:55:26 AM »
I live in Ill which is a state that requires the use of Shotgun slugs, Muzzleloaders of .45 cal  and up or .357 revolvers or  calibers of greater muzzle velocity.I do most of my hunting with muzzle loaders, and don't feel hampered in the least.There are many areas in this state that would present minimum danger to the population by the use of centerfire rifles, but there are also many areas that wouldn't fit those requirements.During the firearms season there are many hunters who come from large metropolitan areas that descend on the rural areas to bag their deer.Most of these hunters are not familiar enough with their weapons or the areas that they are hunting in for the use of centerfire rifles.I personally would like to see the Dept of Natural Ressources define certain areas for centerfire useage, but I don't think that will ever be a reality.

Offline Redhawk1

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2008, 07:05:21 AM »
I live in a shotgun only State, it does not bother me one bit to use just my shotgun. I have killed deer with my 12 gauge shotguns from 10 yards to 208 yards. Yes that is not a misprint, I said 208 yards and with a 2 3/4 Remington solid copper slug. Was verified with a laser Range finder.

The slug gun out there today can be extremely accurate, with the rifled barrels and the top of the line slugs being developed these days. Sure I would love to use one of my rifles, but I don't feel at a real disadvantage with my slug guns.
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