Author Topic: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?  (Read 2656 times)

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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2008, 03:28:38 AM »
thanks for the post
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline MR4SHOOTIN

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2008, 03:42:56 PM »
Been wanting to ask this for some time , I hunt places where we must use shot guns and feel it the best tool alot of the time. What do ya'll think ? I will defend that statement later .

yes I feel sorry.shotguns are for critters with feathers. :(

Offline williamlayton

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2008, 02:41:09 AM »
Hummmm.
Most of the shotgun rules are ancient, more ancient than any of the rules that would take guns or limit what kind of gun.
Everywhere I have hunted, and that has not been in years, I wondered about the need for many of the rifles used by hunters. In most cases The range is about a 100 yards, at most 150 yards.
The Davis mountains of West Texas was the onliest exception.
I bought an old beater Winchester 94 up in Kitterick, Maine for one purpose. My Brother in law has a place in Coleman county.  I am begging a hunt up there. The 30/30 is excellent for most anyhunt and I believe better than a shotgun.
I guess I am saying that there is a need for more options for than just shotguns but less need for a rifle capable of a 500/600 yard shot, though many have and still do hunt with 30/06's.
Blessings 
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2008, 04:18:51 AM »
feathers !
cute !
works for them also , then i have killed many turkeys with a rifle - some flying . Guess i use whats in hand !


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Offline Greenmtnboy66

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2008, 05:33:50 AM »
Nope,
because I woulden't live that close to a urban area.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2008, 06:37:47 AM »
URBAN AREA ?
That's not always the case , more offten than not its lack on knowledge on the voters and politicans with a dose of paranoid ignorance .
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Offline Greenmtnboy66

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2008, 05:02:42 AM »
URBAN AREA ?
That's not always the case , more offten than not its lack on knowledge on the voters and politicans with a dose of paranoid ignorance .

understandably,
thats why everybody needs to be using muzzleloaders during shotgun season and tell the bunny huggers to pound sand  ;D
All seriousness aside I live in CO where it dosen't effect us but to be honest I have seen some crazy stuff in heavly populated hunting areas where long distance bullets prabably woulden't be a good idea.
I have seen the classic spray and pray mentallity from city dwellers who pick up a gun only once a year and it sucks to be anywhere near it.

Offline jjas

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2008, 08:00:28 AM »
Do I feel sorry for anyone having to use shotguns?  No I carried one for years, but I live in Indiana, and I'm glad the lawmakers saw the light and will at least allow us to use PCRs (pistol cartridge rifles) instead of slug guns if we choose. 

The last couple of years I've been carrying a pcr (.44 mag w/Zeiss conquest scope) and wouldn't go back to a slug gun for anything.  More consistent accuracy shot to shot, less cost per round (.50 cents to $1.00 vs $1.00 to $4.00 for slugs) which translates into more range time for me and more confidence in the field. 

Jim

Offline lakota

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2008, 08:36:59 AM »
In my state (Ohio) One can use a muzzleloader during the shotgun season, and they mean ANY muzzleloader. I think it is absolutely ridiculuos that someone can bang away with an in line muzzle loader that can carry as far as a .30/06 but I cant use a .30/30 or a lever action carbine chambered in a pistol caliber.

But I probably shouldnt complain too loud or all the powers that be will do here is make it illegal to use an in line.
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Offline UltraSlugBill

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2008, 03:05:36 PM »
I live in Michigan, below the rifle line. Please shed no tears for my restricted area. I have several mounts as proof that a 12 ga. ismore than enough to drop whitetails. Our farm provides all facets of hunting but most shots are within 150 yards. The guys to feel sorry for are the ones who have to unload their pump guns to kill one deer. I was tought that the first shot is the best shot, and I only deer hunt with single shot USH. I have a 4X12x50 Scope with illuminated recticle and focus on ethical, quality shots

Bill
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Offline Cement Man

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #40 on: December 03, 2008, 03:46:03 PM »
There is no doubt the USH with the right slugs is incredible.  And, what a bargain!
CIVES ARMA FERANT - Let the citizens bear arms.
POLITICIANS SHOULD BE LIMITED TO TWO TERMS - ONE IN OFFICE AND ONE IN PRISON.... Illinois already does this.

Offline bilmac

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #41 on: December 03, 2008, 04:15:27 PM »
Do I feel sorry for hunters restricted to shotguns? Yes

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #42 on: December 04, 2008, 02:12:53 AM »
Thanks for feed back , over the years it seemed to me those that hunt only with a rifle feel those of us that use a shot gun are at a disavantage . Those of us who use them feel well gun ed . I have had far more bang flops with a shot gun , and have killed as many deer with rifle as shotgun . Slug use for me has been the last 6-8 years so most shotgun kills were buck shot .
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Offline teddy12b

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #43 on: December 04, 2008, 07:20:11 AM »
I do feel sorry for people who are restricted to hunting with shotguns only.  Not because a shotgun can't do the job, but because there are many other doors that are closed.  Indiana was a shotgun only state until last year and I had no doubts that a shotgun will handle anything that breaths, but I'd still like to hunt in my own state with my 30-30.  A small consession was last year when they allowed pistol cartridge rifles and from what I've noticed it has rekindered the interest of hunters who were getting a little bored.  Now they get to buy & use a new gun that they can reload for.  The biggest reason I used to travel to hunt was because I wanted to use a regular rifle, just because.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #44 on: December 04, 2008, 10:02:48 AM »
THATS a good point
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline 12ptdroptine

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #45 on: December 05, 2008, 04:26:36 PM »
I live in Illinois. I wish I could hunt with a rifle. But am glad in some other way's they arent allowed. A few years ago my wife was shot at. On her first ever hunt. Buy a hand full of "seasoned" hunter's. It was so bad she ran behind a tree. AFTER several shots were fired at a doe running in front of her. The doe was between them. She never shot because she seen orange.Never pulled her gun up. These guy's were 300 yds away. Now I know there are lots of safe hunter's out there  But I have seen my share of "dummies" also. So do I really want them to have an 06 in their hands? There are a lot of populated area's  that hold a lot of deer. I dont know that high caliber rifles should be used in those area's. There is no cure for dumbazz.  Drop

Offline Cement Man

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #46 on: December 05, 2008, 06:38:18 PM »
Illinois has a split gun season.  During our first Illinois season, I always rifle hunt in Northern Wisconsin with a rifle.  I hunt Illinois the second gun season which is 4 days - yesterday thru Sunday.  This year I used my 20 gauge NEF Ultra Slug Hunter with Lightfield Hybreds.  I shot an 8 point yesterday and a doe this morning.  I have always preferred a rifle, but I almost always shoot somewhat downward from a tree stand and KNOW where my bullet will go with a pass-through or a miss.  I will not shoot an animal on a ridge line, although I have been urged to by excited hunting partners. I do think that there is a place for slugs vs. rifle cartridges, considering the behavior of some people who are not as careful as they should be. I also think that most places in Illinois could be safely hunted with a rifle if all of the hunters were as safe as they should be.
This year I chose the 20 gauge USH in place of my Savage muzzleloader for the Illinois hunt.  When I zeroed my guns in last week, I was again astounded at the accuracy of these inexpensive slug guns with the proper saboted slugs. Many shots touching at 100, and all well in the center of a 2" bullseye, not even close to the edge.  385 grains at 1500 fps is pretty authoritative when you can put it right where it belongs too.  The buck yesterday got lunged through the ribs at 70 yards while walking downhill into a draw.  He stumbled about three steps forward and crumpled. 
It was 3 below this morning where I was hunting, and for the first time ever, my USH firing pin didn't hit the primer hard enough when I pulled the trigger on the doe.  Dented, but no discharge.  I changed to another shell (Very accommodating doe, waited) and tried again with the same results.  The doe took off across a pathway, got about 80 yards in some thicker stuff and stopped facing away from me.  I put it on the base of her neck and hit the primer again on the same shell.  This time it went off and she disappeared below my line of sight.  When I climbed out of the tree and walked over to where I saw her last, she was on the ground with hole at the base of the neck, exited the high chest/throat area and reflexively kicking a bit.  I couldn't have placed the shot better with my .308, nor would the results have been any better.
I need to take the stock & barrel off of the USH, flush out the receiver and get rid of any oils that would gum up at cold temperatures.  I have done that with other H&R/NEF guns, and I assume I "missed" doing it to this one.  That almost cost me a deer.
On the other hand I have a "refreshed" respect for 20 gauge slug guns with good slugs.  The little USH is pretty trim and handy in 20 gauge.  It is a very safe action - that's why I always started youngsters out with these.  The Lightfield Hybreds are expensive as are all sabot slugs, but after you zero your gun in, you don't shoot many anyway.  The 20's are absolutely stone deer killers though. They have the physics and the accuracy to get the job done - easily to 125 yards, and more if you know your business and have the shot.
I love my rifles and muzzleloaders, but honestly that cheap little 20 with those expensive sabot slugs can get the job done, and I won't feel at any disadvantage whatsoever where I hunt in Illinois or any other slug area. I have a Nikon Buckmasters scope on it, probably cost more than I paid for the gun, but a decent scope can't be beat.
I had one of the 12 gauge USH's once, but that one is just too heavy for my tastes.
Some posters have mentioned handgun cartridges in rifles as preferred.  One of my first deer rifles was a Ruger carbine .44 mag.  If I recall, I was getting about 1700 fps with 240 gr. factory ammo.  I killed a few deer with it.  It was not as accurate as the USH and not as "powerful".  I know there are several more pwerful handgun rounds now, but I have no experience with them.

CIVES ARMA FERANT - Let the citizens bear arms.
POLITICIANS SHOULD BE LIMITED TO TWO TERMS - ONE IN OFFICE AND ONE IN PRISON.... Illinois already does this.

Offline Redhawk1

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #47 on: December 05, 2008, 06:52:38 PM »
Been wanting to ask this for some time , I hunt places where we must use shot guns and feel it the best tool alot of the time. What do ya'll think ? I will defend that statement later .

yes I feel sorry.shotguns are for critters with feathers. :(

You must of never hunted with a slug gun. Would I of kill more deer if I had a rifle, I doubt it. Most of the places I hunt, a 100 yard shot is the furthest shot I would be taking.

Do I like to use rifles for game, sure I do, but I travel out of my home state a lot, and I get to use my rifles.

No pity party here.  ;)
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Offline Lon371

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #48 on: December 05, 2008, 10:12:18 PM »
 No I don't, as far as hunting goes. Indiana adopted handgun cartridge in a rifle. Where we live I know of several guys who went out bought the rifles and have only killed paper. I am one of them. It was only an excuse to buy a couple more guns ;D. A muzzle loader will and has killed any range I have ever needed. My shot gun has taken all i have fired at. Now I do know my limitations and the guns.

Quote
The ones I really feel sorry for are the guys who go out with a 300 Win Mag with a high X scope to hunt where 40 and 50 yd. shots are the norm.  These guys just don't get it.

^^ that is what we call a city hunter^^ They are too lazy to get a proper weapon for the distance.

Quote
Over the years I have lived and hunted in states that were shotgun or black powder only for deer. I thought it kind of funny that the same states allowed center fire rifles for varmint hunting.

^^Indiana has same time of law. Heck we can even hunt in the dark with high power for coyotes. That is safer than deer hunting in the daylight?  ::)


Just my ramblings ;D
Lonny



Offline bilmac

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2008, 02:08:31 AM »
Other than it's limited range I agree that there is noyhing wrong with a shotgun. I would hate to be limited to them though because to me thay are nothing but a tool like a wrench.I have rifles however that I have strong affections for. I guess if I had grown up killing deer with a shotgun I may have developed some feelings for them instead.

When I worked in Alaska, we carried guns in the field for bear protection. When I arrived everyone was carrying shotguns.They hadn't even considered rifles.I had already acquired my own 45-70 Marlin in anticipation of moving there and the boss let me carry it. I guess I can understand why these guys loved their shotguns, they were eastern bird hunters who had grown up with a shotgun in their hand, just as I had grown up with a rifle. But when it comes to stopping a huge animal with murder in his heart there is no comparison between a shotgun and a rifle. I could show these guys the numbers, and any way you looked at it compareing their 12 guage to my 45-70 was like compareing a volkswagon to a locomotive, but I couldn't convince them. It was only after we started to shooting holes through birch trees that the light began to dawn. We never did find a birch big enough to stop my 45., had to line up two very large ones to stop the bullet. Finally, just before I left the boss let me pick up a nice 338 from surplus which I trimmed down a lot and put reciever sights on. I even noticed that the hardcore shotgun man was starting to take the 338 when he went out. All that to say old attachments are hard to break.

Offline Redhawk1

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2008, 02:39:54 AM »
I am a 45-70 guy myself, and I think the world of it, but a shotgun with slugs is an awesome game stopper.
The numbers on my lightfield 1 1/4 slug's are impressive 1454 FPS and 2564 fpe.

Now I did not grow up killing deer with a shotgun, I used rifles most of my life, but when I moved to Delaware, I got us to using a shotgun with slugs.

Now on one of my black bear hunts, the guides were happy to see guys showing up with slug guns.
The first night in camp we were all gathered at the dinner table, and the guide /outfitter ask everyone what they were shooting. We had guys say 30-30, 30-06, 300 Win Mag, 45-70 and my buddy said a slug gun, and the guide said finally a real bear hunter in the group. So in my opinion, if the guides and outfitter likes them, there must be a good reason.  When the guide got to me, I told him I was using my BFR 500 Mag handgun, all's he said was OK... When I shot my black bear, and it dropped in it's tracks the guide was very impressed with my 500 Mag.

But what I have found is, most of the deer hunting I have done, a shotgun with slugs was all I really ever need. Most shots are under 100 yards, and it works well. Now if I ever intend on going back to an area where long shots are expected, I will take one of my rifles, 30-06, 300 win mag or my 338 Federal. In some States a rifle is just not needed and I understand the reason behind the decision to use them.
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Offline Cement Man

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2008, 03:04:22 AM »
In most all of the areas I have hunted in Illinois 125 yards would be an extreme range, and with my current favorite slug gun and the sabot slugs I am using, I don't even have to hold over.  +2" at 50, zero at 100, -3.55" at 125.  For where I hunt that is pretty nice, considering the accuracy we are getting nowadays.
If I were to hunt a stand where it was more open, my Savage smokeless muzzleloader gets the nod.  200+ yards - no problem.  I am sending 250 gr. Honady XTP's at 2300 fps and it's a great load.
I think our deer season in Illinois was re-instituted in 1955 and the harvest for the whole state was about 3500. Now, Illinois is considered one of the premier deer hunting states (in certain counties).  Lots of folks pay big money to come here and hunt with slug guns. When I started hunting in the early 60's, I remembered folks with old double barrels, and bird barrels on pumps and autoloaders with "punkin balls" going after deer and lobbing lead all over the place.  It was often not good - wounded and missed deer.  I did have a friend with an Ithaca Deerslayer though, who reliably put all of those foster slugs into 3" at 100 yards. I still see guys with less than optimal setups at the range getting ready for deer season.  I feel sorry for them, not for me.
I think, since the 1980's, slug development and the guns to shoot them, have really come a long way.
Bilmac, If I were around grizzly bears, I agree with you 100%. ,45-70 repeater with proper loads or .338 absolutely (for me).  Now my memory may be wrong (often is nowadays) but I read a book about Timothy Treadwell (The Grizzly Maze? - gotten eaten by a grizzly)about a year ago and it sticks out in my mind that the Alaska Fish & Game agents that found his body and killed a bear were armed with 12 gauge slug guns.  I can't find the book right now, but I'll check.  It would seem to me that those guys probably be adequately armed.  Found this anyway - http://www.yellowstone-bearman.com/Tim_Treadwell.html   

Been wanting to ask this for some time , I hunt places where we must use shot guns and feel it the best tool alot of the time. What do ya'll think ? I will defend that statement later .

yes I feel sorry.shotguns are for critters with feathers. :(

You must of never hunted with a slug gun. Would I of kill more deer if I had a rifle, I doubt it. Most of the places I hunt, a 100 yard shot is the furthest shot I would be taking.

Do I like to use rifles for game, sure I do, but I travel out of my home state a lot, and I get to use my rifles.

No pity party here.  ;)

+1  ;)
CIVES ARMA FERANT - Let the citizens bear arms.
POLITICIANS SHOULD BE LIMITED TO TWO TERMS - ONE IN OFFICE AND ONE IN PRISON.... Illinois already does this.

Offline Hooker

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #52 on: December 06, 2008, 03:18:26 PM »
My state has shotgun and bow only areas. Shotguns are restricted to slugs, buck shot is not legal for anything, except 2 legged snakes. This is not a freedom lost it is a freedom gained. There would be no hunting in these areas other wise. We have many bow only areas in this state, One is on a U.S. ammunition plant and it is long bows only. I hunt with a bow a lot and I can say with authority that a shotgun holds no disadvantage for a hunter at all. Not having the opportunity to hunt is a loss of freedom or I should say sadly in most states a loss of privilege.
I am proud to say Oklahoma's Constitution now includes hunting as a right.
No I do not feel a bit sorry for anyone who has the opportunity to hunt. No matter what method of hunting you are restricted to, hunt ethically, hunt as often as possible, introduce a someone to hunting, and be a good ambassador to our sport.

Pat   
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #53 on: December 10, 2008, 01:36:02 AM »
The idea of using a slug gun for bear had not crossed my mind until looking into a bear hunt in Manitoba , the guide said most hunters up there used a slug gun . Shooting was close !
Strange as it seems to hunt deer with a shotgun and varmits with a centerfire rifle , we have a few areas where you can hunt turkey with any rifle and deer with only shot gun or muzzle loader GO FIGURE !
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Offline Redhawk1

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #54 on: December 10, 2008, 03:52:57 AM »
Shotguns with slugs are great for black bear hunting.
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Offline teddy12b

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #55 on: December 10, 2008, 08:00:50 AM »
On my last bear hunt there was a guy who took out his shotgun to hunt with instead of his bow after a few days.  He was using the Hornady SST slugs and took a shot and never found the bear.  He and his buddy said there was good blood, but they never found it.  I've heard great things about shotguns for bear hunting, but it's like anything else where the bullet has to hit the target.


Offline Redhawk1

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #56 on: December 10, 2008, 11:18:17 AM »
On my last bear hunt there was a guy who took out his shotgun to hunt with instead of his bow after a few days.  He was using the Hornady SST slugs and took a shot and never found the bear.  He and his buddy said there was good blood, but they never found it.  I've heard great things about shotguns for bear hunting, but it's like anything else where the bullet has to hit the target.



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Offline ironglow

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #57 on: December 10, 2008, 12:40:26 PM »
  Shotguns are for feathers? ..These guys don't think so  http://www.lg-outdoors.com/proddetail.asp?prod=9851  Of course there were lions, leopards, kudu etc that have found out that a 12 ga is adequate. :D
     Juist because an area is restricted to shotguns, doesn't mean it is close to an urban area. IOt's a case of stupid lawmakers making even more stupid laws. Until a couple years ago, anything outside the Catskill and Adirondack mts was strictly "shotgun country". Of course, one could use a TC handgun in any caliber they make..and that with a 14" barrel..however, I couldn't legally take my H&R .44 mag rifle out for them..did I say stupid     
    Finallythe many of us writing to our DEC got them to open more of the lesser populated counties (including mine) to rifle. I have always preferred rifles, especially rimfires..so I immediately switched to rifle. I use either my Marlin 336W 30/30 or my NEF with .308 barrel.
  Being in the Allegany mts. and thus generally short often wooded/brushy ranges, you would be surprised to see how many seasoned hunters still use their shotguns.
  Being of Scottish heritage...you know why I am glad to use 30/30 rather than sabot slugs; the reason is spelled like this, $$$.  ;) :D ;D
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #58 on: December 10, 2008, 12:48:23 PM »
Not at all, here in the open tundra of southern MN we are restricted to shotgunns firing a single slug, handguns 22 caliber centefire or larger or muzzloaders for fire arms season. Southern MN is very flat, very open and fairly densly populated. I have a feeling if rifles were allowed we would have alot more accidental shootings and property damage. Now I understand that some of the handguns used here are in standard rifle calibers, the difference I see is that it is very rare if not imposible to spray and pray with a scoped handgun. Another factor to using shotguns here is that there would basically be a slaughter of deer that use the open ground as a defence. So no I don't feel sorry we are a shotgun only hunt here in Southern MN, but also I would love to see them allow straight cartridge rifles here just because I hate the high price of sabot slugs.
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Offline Troyboy

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Re: do ya feel sorry for deer hunters restricted to shotguns ?
« Reply #59 on: December 10, 2008, 12:55:21 PM »
Can't say i care one way or another.A shotgun is gonna get the job done no way around that. Open country is out west that is where a rifle is needed
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