Citigroup Gets Another Bailout

[alsaqr]

This time it could cost taxpayers 100s of billions.  Citigroup was one of the leaders in the derivatives scam that trashed the world economy.   Now they are being rewarded for their corruption and incompetence. 
I gotta puke. 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081124/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_paulson;_ylt=AtwcymZymkkB8pQsN9nuHXas0NUE

The flurry of activity by Bush, which had not been announced in advance, came the morning after the government's agreement to shoulder hundreds of billions of dollars in possible losses at Citigroup and to plow a fresh $20 billion into the troubled company. Bush called the company by its predecessor's name, Citicorp.

[Dee]

They have already been bailed out once several weeks ago. That now makes $45 BILLION just for them. I don't wanna puke, I wanna vote again. SOON!

[Norm1057]

Icing on the Cake.

Last week I get a letter telling me my interest was going up 2% on my Citicard. Never missed a payment to any creditor, have always had excellent credit, and I pay my bills on time or early. Now, I get penalized and these guys get a "Bail Out!"

What kind of crap is this?

[Dee]

Sounds like the kinda crap that calls for cancelling a credit card.

[Old Syko]

If you pay your credit card bill in full at the end of the month like you should it shouldn't matter if they want to make interest rates 1000%.  In other words "live within your means."  Everyone paying minimums or whatever they can seem to muster each month is the cause of this mess.  Yet as always it is easier to pass the buck.  Anyone who can't figure this out should immediately get rid of all credit cards and grow up.

[Brett]

If you pay your credit card bill in full at the end of the month like you should it shouldn't matter if they want to make interest rates 1000%.  In other words "live within your means." 

That's easier said than done sometimes.  This month I had to work on the furnace and put a clutch in my wifes car.  In addition to that I have had to travel further recently in order to stay working. The last three weeks I have averaged just under 200 miles a day.  Even though my work truck is only a mid-sized Dodge Dakota that still ads up to a lot of gas which I have had to put on a credit card.  Granted I will get some of that back when I file my taxes but that doesn't help me right now.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not singing the blues and I agree with what you are saying.  You should live within your means and keep those credit cards payed up. I'm just pointing out that it is not always possible.

[Old Syko]

I'm just pointing out that it is not always possible.

Herein lies the problem.  It is always possible.  Society has allowed itself to be overcome with this belief in extenuating circumstances that somehow relieve us of our personal obligations.  Then you throw in a group of government officials who force financial institutions to play Robin Hood by taking from the haves to support the have nots and you end up with the situation we  now face.  There is a very good reason for the have nots and they will always reside in that same category regardless of what they are handed.

As long as loans are secured with sufficient collateral the world financial market stays strong.  When we give the individual Cart Blanche to whatever unsecured credit they desire we come to where we are right now.   

[alsaqr]

Oh, it is much more than 45 billion dollars.  The fed has decided to obligate a few hundred billion to Citigroup in addition to the 45 billion in welfare. 

The fed acts totally independently of the congressional appropriations process.  Congress can reign in the fed, but since congress is responsible for this mess they will do nothing.  To date the fed has obligated about 7 trillion dollars to cleaning up the banking mess.  BTW:  The fed has no one on board to do the actuarial work, so they hired folks from the NY banks to do that work.  Yep, the same banks who caused the problem to begin with.  A trillion here, a trillion there could add up to some really big bucks. 

http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20670001&refer=home&sid=arEE1iClqDrk

Nov. 24 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. government is prepared to provide more than $7.76 trillion on behalf of American taxpayers after guaranteeing $306 billion of Citigroup Inc. debt yesterday. The pledges, amounting to half the value of everything produced in the nation last year, are intended to rescue the financial system after the credit markets seized up 15 months ago.

The unprecedented pledge of funds includes $3.18 trillion already tapped by financial institutions in the biggest response to an economic emergency since the New Deal of the 1930s, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The commitment dwarfs the plan approved by lawmakers, the Treasury Department’s $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program. Federal Reserve lending last week was 1,900 times the weekly average for the three years before the crisis.

[Brett]

I'm just pointing out that it is not always possible.

Herein lies the problem.  It is always possible.   

I wish you would show me how then.  My options are not fix my furnace and let my family freeze, refuse to take jobs out of town and not work and not make any money, not fix my wife's care so that she can not get to work or make the necessary repairs and burn the extra gas and carry a balance on the credit cards for a while.  If you have enough cash reserves to carry you through some tough situations good for you but don't start preaching to a working man doing his best just to get buy. 

[Old Syko]

If you have enough cash reserves to carry you through some tough situations good for you but don't start preaching to a working man doing his best just to get buy.   

And don't blame me for a situation of your own design.  I didn't break your furnace or your wife's car.  Nor did I cause you to fail to prepare for unforeseen events.  My point to all this is merely that everyone needs to learn to take care of their own without the crutch of unsecured credit since this unsecured credit is the end cause of all the financial woes of today.  Learn to do without a few things in the future and set the money from those things back and next time you won't have to pay a premium for such incidents.

BTW I am a working man, 80 to 100 hours a week for too many years, but one who doesn't live beyond his means.  If I don't have it I do without.  This way I avoid being part of the problem.

[Heather]

In my opinion as most of you well know is that these companies and people got themselves into this mess and I don't think it is my or your responsibility as a taxpayer to bail them out.  Let them crumble for all I care.  I don't mean that as heartless and rude, but it is a necessary evil for our country to even remain under the "illusion" of a free market economy, or have any chance of growing past this.  As someone very smart once said "Necessity is the mother of all invention."  Let our country hurt and need for a while and people will be forced to invent different lifestyles and better business practices.  The key word in that sentence is PEOPLE not GOVERNMENT!

Heather

[Dee]

What you say Old Syko is true. In my youth I bought things that I really didn't need but, WANTED. I didn't prepare for the future, and when unexpectedness showed up, I CHARGED. And then I paid interest. I now deal almost strictly cash. When I see the money leave my hand, reality sinks in. The reality? That money I just gave the guy won't be coming back.
Most of the guns I thought I NEEDED, I have sold, and I hunt with guns I have had between 30 to 50 years, and you know what? The damn things still work just like they used to. Gas? I pay cash. Home repairs? I pay cash. ect. ect.
I can remember when I made it just fine BEFORE credit cards. Hmmmmm. How did we ever do that?

[Old Syko]

I can remember when I made it just fine BEFORE credit cards. Hmmmmm. How did we ever do that?

Not real sure since now-days it's been deemed impossible.  I do know it's getting old rowing the boat while others make excuses and go along for the ride.

[Dee]

I can remember when I made it just fine BEFORE credit cards. Hmmmmm. How did we ever do that?

Not real sure since now-days it's been deemed impossible.  I do know it's getting old rowing the boat while others make excuses and go along for the ride.

The government wants to bail credit card companies. WHY?

[myronman3]

hey, it isnt easy.   i am doing it, i have been doinog it since my divorce.  it isnt always easy, but it is doable.   a person has to do without alot, but in the end you are better off.   it takes time, a huge effort, and sincere dedication.  it can be done; and is very gratifying when you finally arrive.   

[Dee]

hey, it isnt easy.   i am doing it, i have been doinog it since my divorce.  it isnt always easy, but it is doable.   a person has to do without alot, but in the end you are better off.   it takes time, a huge effort, and sincere dedication.  it can be done; and is very gratifying when you finally arrive.   

Yes it is myronman3. And the difference in handing over actual money instead of swiping plastic gives you a sense of loss money wise doesn't it? One has a tendency to keep track of how much cash one has, rather than how many checks are left in the book, or ABOUT how much credit is left on the card. Right? One does not have to worry if one can pay the monthly fee. THere isn't one.

[alsaqr]

I travel a lot on business and it is absolutely necessary to have credit cards.  One cannot rent a room in most places without a credit card.  Paying by credit card is convenient and fast.  One does not need to carry a lot of cash. 

[Old Syko]

I travel a lot on business and it is absolutely necessary to have credit cards.  One cannot rent a room in most places without a credit card.  Paying by credit card is convenient and fast.  One does not need to carry a lot of cash. 

I agree!  Can't get a room, rent a car, or even get gas at times without a card.  The key is to only spend what you have.  Pay in full before the bill is due and become known by the credit card companies as a deadbeat like myself with an 800+ credit score.  Pay cash whenever possible though to avoid the paper trail.  At least by paying in full your not a part of the problem.

[myronman3]

dee... you are so right about that.   monthly bills will kill you.  imagine not having them!!! 

  i went my entire life without having any credit cards, then i got married and although i never filled out any applications for c.c.'s, she certainly did.  she wouldnt listen to my way of thinking, and i should have taken that for the sign that it was.   instead, ten years later....it bit me big time.   it finally got to the point where i effectively fired her as the cfo of the house, took the cards, the checkbook, and everything else.   that is when she started running, and looking for the next victim.   well she found him, and welcome to her.   she put me in a hole that honestly, i am still in.  but you know what?  i am gaining everyday on it and doing it without credit cards.  imagine what it will be like when i have this monkey off my back and my paycheck will be all mine!!!!
   the point here is, that it can be done.  and if your buisness requires you to travel and whatnot, like said,  dont spend a dime more than you can pay off when the bill comes in.