Author Topic: Myles Standish link to Civil War Naval Cannon with Photos  (Read 3690 times)

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Offline seacoastartillery

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Myles Standish link to Civil War Naval Cannon with Photos
« on: November 28, 2008, 07:40:15 AM »
                                                         Cemetery  Cannon

     For quite a few years, as we have traveled the United States in search of seacoast, naval and siege artillery, Mike and I have nurtured a sense that more than 1/3 of the 5,000 plus Civil War cannon that still exist, reside in cemetery locations.  We hope, with your assistance, to explore some of them in this thread.  Occasionally we will post updates to this thread with new discoveries and this time we will do each location thoroughly, rather than list nine cemeteries with one gun each.  So we are asking for any and all discoveries that you may have made, to be posted, with photos if possible, or just descriptions, perhaps of a vacation trip or a history lesson trip with your kids or any occurrence which led to a cannon discovery in one of these places of eternal rest.

     The service of two of these cemetery guns is known.  The Bohio, a Federal Navy Armed Brig, had only two cannon onboard, 32-pdrs. of 57 cwt.,registry numbers 343 and 344 , according to data obtained from The Big Guns by Olmstead, Stark and Tucker. She  joined the West Gulf Blockading Squadron in January 1862 and cruised along the Louisiana and Alabama coasts and during 1862 she took four prizes and forced the scuttling of a fifth vessel.  The other two 32-pdrs. with registry numbers 573 and 575, are listed as serving onboard the Mona Wood by a notation opposite their geographical information in the Known Surviving Civil War Cannon list.  

Regards,

Tracy and Mike


1.   These four naval cannon are in the center of a small cemetery in South Duxbury, MA known as The Old Cemetery, The Old Burying Ground, South Duxbury Cemetery or Standish Cemetery and is just off Route 3 on Chestnut Street a little west of town about 25 or 30 miles south of Boston, MA.




2.   Mike is standing next to one of the four 32-pdrs. arrayed around the grave of Myles Standish.  These cannon are in excellent shape and have been very well cared for in the years since they were cast (1848-1850).




3.   The markings on the right trunnion are the weight of shot used in these guns designed for solid shot and the date of casting.




4.   The “P” marking on the left trunnion stands for Robert Parker Parrott, mgr. of West Point Foundry in 1850.  The A. A. H. markings stand for Naval Ordnance Inspector, Andrew A. Harwood.




5.   The markings on the breech ring, W.P.F. designate the foundry where the tube was cast, The West Point Foundry in Cold Spring, NY. And the marking, 575 is the registry number of the tube.




6.   The markings 56 . 3 . 24  stand for the weight expressed in hundredweight measure.  First set, 56 represents how many units of 112 pounds.  The second, 3, represents how many quarters or units of 28 pounds.  The third set, 24, represents how many individual pounds.  So the total weight is 6,380 pounds.




7.   These breeching jaws clearly indicate a Navy contract gun.  The recoil limiting hawser passes through them.




8.   In the center of the surrounding guns is this marker, although of a more recent age, it marks the grave of Myles or Miles Standish, 1584-1656, the leader of the Colonial militia in the Plymouth Colony.  In later years he moved north to found the town of Duxbury.




9.   A rough passage indeed.   “Cafco”  This references Casco Bay where Portland, Maine is now located.









Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline eod20

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Re: Myles Standish link to Civil War Naval Cannon with Photos
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2008, 02:10:22 PM »
i live in carlisle, pa  and was wondering if you have been to the soldiers museum there yet    they have been putting up period displays of fortifications on the grounds   the civil war and the rev. war forts have a number of mounted cannon       what pic and info do you collect from cannon?
looking for ejectors - 308, 8mm, 35 rem, 25-20, 32-20, 357 mag, 45LC

Offline Double D

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Re: Myles Standish link to Civil War Naval Cannon with Photos
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2008, 06:13:54 PM »
Okay, this sounds like an interesting project.

I'm in Montana, does your list have any cannons listed in this state I can go find?

Kinda like a scavenger hunt for old cannons.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Myles Standish link to Civil War Naval Cannon with Photos
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2008, 10:26:44 AM »
     eod20,   That's an interesting handle you have.  I went hunting several times with the lead EOD guy at Fort Polk and I remember his advise to me just like it was yesterday.  He said, "Tracy if you ever come across a shed while hunting out in the boondocks in oil country, don't go near it, especially if it has a flow of yellow liquid or crystals coming out from under the bottom edge.  If you step on or disturb that yellow flow (nitroglycerin leaking out of cases of Dynamite not properly rotated), they will probably hear the BANG three miles away!"   I never did!!

     Anyway, no we just didn't have time to visit on this past trip, but it sure is on the list for the next one!  The NIH is there too as most are aware, with all those thousands of excellent CW historical photos, and the new museum of Civil War history in Harrisburg is nearby as well.

     The pics and info from cannon that we collect is explained completely in the thread called, "How to Photograph, Measure and Make a Field Drawing of a Cannon" which is currently on page two near the bottom.

     Double D,   The number of Civil War cannon in Montana is few, but here are where they are located.  You just tell me how far you are willing to travel and I will get you the necessary info to you as to what they are and a specific location if it is listed.

                                                Cannon  Locations in Montana


                                                                                Big Hole NB
                                                                                Billings
                                                                                Boseman
                                                                                Fort Benton
                                                                                Kalispell
                                                                                Livingston
                                                                                Missoula  ( 5, but all are privately owned)
                                                                                Poplar
                                                                                Virginia City


     I don't know Montana very well, but at least I have seen the metropolis of Cut Bank.  As you drive into that City you get the feeling that this is true Americana!  Almost like being on the Old Route 66,.....well........almost.  As to the closest Cannon, I think your in luck!
Kalispell, Montana has a big siege gun, a 24 pdr. very similar to Terry C.s beautiful gun in Waycross, Georgia.  This one is a Pattern 1840, but has lines almost identical to that beauty.  It has no second reinforce, just one long taper from just ahead of the trunnions to the base ring.  There should not be a raised "Chase Band" about 14" behind the muzzle face like there is on Terry's Pattern 1845, but there is a nice muzzle swell which makes it a very attractive gun.  Markings/  Who knows; that's for you to tell us.

Good luck,

Tracy and Mike



 
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Double D

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Re: Myles Standish link to Civil War Naval Cannon with Photos
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2008, 12:44:54 PM »
I have driven by Big Hole Battlefield at least three times in the last 8 months and didn't stop. I will next time.  I don't know what cannon they have there, but the scenery there is incredible.   Well worth the visit. Would the cannon they have there be a Mt. Howitzer?

Poplar? I was there last spring house hunting. Quite a ways from here. May go throught there next spring on the way east to visit the kids.

Virginia City, Bozeman, Billings and Livingston are down south. Might take that route home in the spring returning home from visiting the kids. It's not the direct route home, and by then the wife and I may have had enough of traveling together and just want to get home and our own space. Virginia City is a Tourist stop.

According to Map Quest, Ft. Benton is only two hours away. I am headed over to Washington State next weekend and return the 12th of December. Ft Benton isn't on the direct route home, but, send me details on this one.  Location?

Kalispell is probably on my upcoming travel itinerary.  That's where the surgeon is who is going work on my knee.  Give me details on that one also.

You might also post a pihoto tutorial of what you want in pictures

Offline Terry C.

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Re: Myles Standish link to Civil War Naval Cannon with Photos
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2008, 02:03:34 PM »
This 24-pounder Iron Siege Gun, Model of 1845 (which most of you have already seen many times) is not in a cemetery. But it is at a memorial site.




It's located at the Confederate Veterans Memorial in Phoenix (formerly Confederate) Park in downtown Waycross, GA.

Here is the only decent photo I have with the entire monument in the frame. It was taken when I was having a lot of camera problems. I eventually had to replace that camera. Out of a half-dozen photos only this one was fit to keep.




When this was taken, the Phoenix Hotel was being renovated, so the park is in a mess. I need to go take some better shots of the memorial now that the park is back to normal.


I'm back home tonight, and after having three full-blown Thanksgiving dinners in three days, I don't want to see any more food for the rest of the weekend!

Well, maybe just a little slice of that pecan pie... :) :D ;D

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Myles Standish link to Civil War Naval Cannon with Photos
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2008, 02:26:49 PM »
     DD,   Right you are, there is a 12 pdr. Mountain Howitzer, Model 1835 waiting for you at Big Hole National Battlefield. this points out that cannons are like gold; they are where you find them, like that 100 pdr. Parrott Rifle we found in that fellow's backyard in Dresden, NY.  So, we would be foolish to say only cemetery locations are allowed.  This Find Your Local Cannon thread does now welcome photos and stories about any cannon with a Model No. of 1898 or earlier, regardless of where you find it.  Poplar has a 3" Ord. Rifle at the Ft. Peck Indian Agency.  at The Museum of the Rockies in Ft. Benton, there is a Mt. Howitzer and an Ord. Rifle.  Woodland Park is the location of the Kalispell 1840 siege gun.  Look for a No. 658 and a U.S. on it, maybe other mkgs. as well.

     As far as photos go, we are not demanding any.  We are not specifying any.  We would only hope that you would consider taking a side view square to the tube's bore axis and a closeup of any markings or interesting details.  A top view, gunner's view, from the breech is very revealing and is a standard view for us.  The "How to Photograph" thread on page 2 at the bottom tells you all of the views that we take. 

     We should start another thread for this topic, how about "Cannons, Like Gold, Are Where You Find Them".

     Whoa!  Terry slipped right in there and bounced my reply into la la land.  That's O.K., because we really love that Waycross siege gun and want see it for sure sometime next year.  Please notice all the gun-related information he just posted about the monument and Phoenix, formerly Confederate, Memorial and the Phoenix Hotel renovation, etc.  That is precisely what we are talking about when we say, do a location completely.  Look for that new thread sometime on Sunday.

Regards,

Mike and Tracy
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Double D

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Re: Myles Standish link to Civil War Naval Cannon with Photos
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2009, 03:35:42 PM »
Aaaaarrrrrggghhh! I forget the chip for the digital camera. No big deal really as the cannon in Kalispell was half buried in a snow bank.  I'll be going back in couple of weeks and if the snow is melted, I'll take picture then.  I did make notes of markings.

Moulded in relief on the cascabel is 658

On the base ring is 5626

In the first reinforce about midway between the trunnion is US

On the end of the right trnnion is WPF

On the end of the left trunnion is 1844

On the Muzzle is No. 3

It appears to be 24 PDR.



Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Myles Standish link to Civil War Naval Cannon with Photos
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2009, 04:55:32 PM »
     Thanks Double D, the notes you took reveal some very important information today about the cannon in Kalispell, MT.  According to the national list if surviving cw cannon, the no. 3 that you found on the muzzle refers to the registry no. of this piece which means that it was the third gun of this type cast.  This is a bit unusual in that this cannon is a 24 pdr. siege gun, M 1840.  Maybe there were no requirements for this type between 1840 and 1844.  A number that you found is elusive on many iron CW cannon.  The 658 is the foundry number and WPF (West Point Foundry), the founder of this piece.  Also you found it was cast in the year 1844 and the foundry found that it weighed 5,626 lbs.

     Photos would be a bonus as these are very good looking guns, but don't worry about that snow drift around the gun, just stop at United Tool Rental a couple miles north on 93 off Rte. 2.  They have torpedo heaters and kerosene.  All right then.  Thank you!

Regards,

Mike and Tracy
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Double D

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Re: Myles Standish link to Civil War Naval Cannon with Photos
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2009, 06:11:47 PM »
I also notices some thing else very interesting. Running all the way down the top of the barrel was a parting mark from mould. The barrel had a very definite raised section along that line.  The only machining I noted was teh muzzle, cascabel and trunnions.

Did I say it was a smoothbore

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Myles Standish link to Civil War Naval Cannon with Photos
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2009, 02:07:40 PM »
Here's Macon Arsenal Napoleon No. 12, cast 1863, weight 1182, foundry no. 14, inspector T.A.S.  It is in a small museum in Baxter Springs, KS.  Does anyone know what the story behind it is, there's quite a bit of text on the signs, I haven't been there and don't know what the signs say.

http://www.kansastravel.org/baxterspringsmuseum.htm

Offline Double D

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Re: Myles Standish link to Civil War Naval Cannon with Photos
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2009, 06:18:03 PM »
Does the history of these individual guns exist? Where did the gun go after it was cast, how was it deployed and how did it get to Kalispell? How was it mounted?

By the way if you query 24-pounder iron siege gun, Model of 1840 in google the picture you get is of the Kalispell gun.

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Myles Standish link to Civil War Naval Cannon with Photos
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2009, 09:16:24 PM »
Another link to the Baxter Springs Museum.
GG
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Offline cannonmn

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Re: Myles Standish link to Civil War Naval Cannon with Photos
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2009, 10:52:29 PM »
>Does the history of these individual guns exist?

I've dug out the backgrounds of a number of them when required.  It takes some time and looking in different places so I don't do it for just any cannon.  Some cannons I can get a lot of info on and some I can find very little.  I keep files of the info that I already got, for one reason or another, and I don't have anything on the piece in MT in that file yet.  The older the piece is, as long as it is recent enough to have a full set of markings, the more likely I'll be able to find something on it simply because there was a longer period of time in which records could have been accumulated.

Offline Terry C.

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Re: Myles Standish link to Civil War Naval Cannon with Photos
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2009, 12:22:38 AM »
.. if you query 24-pounder iron siege gun, Model of 1840 in google the picture you get is of the Kalispell gun.

Is this the gun from cwartillery.org?

Offline Double D

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Re: Myles Standish link to Civil War Naval Cannon with Photos
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2009, 03:06:15 AM »
Yep that's it Terry.

I'll get us better pictures.

Offline Double D

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Re: Myles Standish link to Civil War Naval Cannon with Photos
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2009, 04:16:27 PM »
By the way what type of carrige would the Kalispell cannon been mounted on; field, garrison or naval?

Offline Double D

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Re: Myles Standish link to Civil War Naval Cannon with Photos
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2009, 10:17:01 AM »
24 PDR Siege Cannon
Woodland Park
Kalispell, MT














Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Myles Standish link to Civil War Naval Cannon with Photos
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2009, 06:59:02 PM »
     Thanks, DD!  Old No. 3, that's quite a gun.  Had to wipe some snow off the base ring and vent field to get that weight photo, did you?  Now here is a man who does what he's promised to do.  How about some of you other members.  Just about all of us live within 50 miles of pre-1899 ordnance.  How about some pics of some guns from Gettysburg?  The fields and museums are loaded with cannon there.  Anybody take any photos during your last visit? 

Regards,

Tracy and Mike
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Double D

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Re: Myles Standish link to Civil War Naval Cannon with Photos
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2009, 06:34:17 AM »
Lets see if I have this right.

Right trunnion-foundry

Left trunnion-year cast

Muzzle-number of casting

base ring- gun weight

Is this correct?

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Myles Standish link to Civil War Naval Cannon with Photos
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2009, 11:16:23 AM »
Lets see if I have this right.

Right trunnion-foundry

Left trunnion-year cast

Muzzle-number of casting

base ring- gun weight

Is this correct?

     You have that correct, and you also found the Foundry No., 658, molded in raised relief on the cascable, but of course there are exceptions to this convention that is usually used for Army guns.  There were very few of these cast and they are correctly called  24 pdr. Siege-gun, Model 1840.  Pretty sure that only two survive in the United States today.


By the way what type of carrige would the Kalispell cannon been mounted on; field, garrison or naval?

     None of the above.  This was a siege gun and would have been mounted on siege carriage or, if used in a more permanent earthwork fortification or a seacoast fort, it, most likely, would be on a Wooden, Front-Pintle, Seacoast, Barbette Carriage.  Thanks so much, Double D, for the nice pics of this gun.  I bet your new winter-time motto could be:  "Have snow-shovel, will find cannon".  You are lucky to have this rare gun so close to where you live. 

     Anybody else find any cannon lately?  Got pics?

Regards,

Mike and Tracy
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Double D

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Re: Myles Standish link to Civil War Naval Cannon with Photos
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2009, 04:49:19 PM »
Actually the Markings I had in mind were.

Right trunnion- DDGS

Left trunnion-1984

Muzzle- No. 1

base ring- 64.75

There is a No. 2.  Last I saw it it was in Idaho.



Offline Double D

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Re: Myles Standish link to Civil War Naval Cannon with Photos
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2010, 04:20:19 AM »
Spotted this gun today...


















Very difficult to photograph indoors siting in a bright sunny window.

The Part Rangers told me they have all the accessories and accouterments for this gun in their warehouse in ther original shipping containers. If some one want to view these items, they can make and advance arrange and they will be made available.

 Big Hole Battlefield

Found it Tracy!!!


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Re: Myles Standish link to Civil War Naval Cannon with Photos
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2010, 01:53:08 PM »
     Glad you got a chance to stop by and take some pics.  Looks like a nice Model 1835.  This howitzer, Registry No. 111, was inspected by one of the most dedicated ordnance inspectors of that day, Mr. Alexander Brydie Dyer who checked out Army cannon for 36 years, 1838 to 1874.  In those early days he was joined by Parrott and Rodman in that profession.  An Ames gun from Chickopee, Mass, it's hard to believe it weighs only 224 Lbs.  A great find DD.  Thanks for the nice pics.

Tracy and Mike
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Double D

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Re: Myles Standish link to Civil War Naval Cannon with Photos
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2011, 05:05:38 PM »
   
 

     Double D,   The number of Civil War cannon in Montana is few, but here are where they are located.  You just tell me how far you are willing to travel and I will get you the necessary info to you as to what they are and a specific location if it is listed.

                                                Cannon  Locations in Montana


                                                                                Big Hole NB
                                                                                Billings
                                                                                Boseman
                                                                                Fort Benton
                                                                                Kalispell
                                                                                Livingston
                                                                                Missoula  ( 5, but all are privately owned)
                                                                                Poplar
                                                                                Virginia City


     I don't know Montana very well, but at least I have seen the metropolis of Cut Bank.  As you drive into that City you get the feeling that this is true Americana!  Almost like being on the Old Route 66,.....well........almost.  As to the closest Cannon, I think your in luck!
Kalispell, Montana has a big siege gun, a 24 pdr. very similar to Terry C.s beautiful gun in Waycross, Georgia.  This one is a Pattern 1840, but has lines almost identical to that beauty.  It has no second reinforce, just one long taper from just ahead of the trunnions to the base ring.  There should not be a raised "Chase Band" about 14" behind the muzzle face like there is on Terry's Pattern 1845, but there is a nice muzzle swell which makes it a very attractive gun.  Markings/  Who knows; that's for you to tell us.

Good luck,

Tracy and Mike



 

Guys can you check resource again and see if that Columbiad Southpaw found is listed.  I was aware there was a cannon there, i just hadn't got down to GF to look at it.


Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Myles Standish link to Civil War Naval Cannon with Photos
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2011, 09:24:52 AM »
     I just checked my copy of the National List, Double D.  It does not include any cannon in Great Falls, Montana.  I think I bought it in '95 or '96, so maybe a more recent List will include this 8" Columbiad in Great Falls.  The only alternative would be that this huge gun has gone unnoticed all these years and then Ernie gets to call Jim Bender with a gigantic discovery!  I bet one of our members has a more recent copy and that it IS listed there.  We probably don't have long to wait.  I think the official name of the list is: The National Registry of Surviving Civil War Artillery , but that may have changed too.  Wish I had Jim's email or phone #; I would order a current copy.  I think 300 or more have been added since 1995.

Tracy
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling