22 magnum vs 17 HMR

[Doug K.A.]

Hey guys. I've been looking into 22 magnums and 17 HMR's and I just dont know which one to get (if i do get one). Which one would be better for small game from birds to coyotes? I would use it on birds like blue jays, crows, and blackbirds and rabbits and squirrels and the very occasional fox or coyote. I know the 22 magnum is gonna have more knockdown power because its a bigger and heavier bullet but will it shoot as far as the 17 HMR accurately? I've shot a 17 HMR before and its amazin what it will do to a rabbit at close range lol. My max range would be around 200 yards but most of the time my shots would be around 80 yards. So vote for whichever one you think is better overall. Thanks!

[Lurker]

I have two 17 hummers and three 22 Magnums.

In my view I would not stretch the barrel of a 17 Hummer to 200 yards... But, that is just me.

I prefer the 22 Magnum for edible small game, because it doesn't tear up the meat, as much, if your aim is a little off.

In my experience the 17 hummer bullet is a little more frangible, than the 22 Magnum is, thereby being more explosive than the 22 Magnum.

Bill

[Keith L]

200 yards is to long for a .22 mag as well.  I think a .22 mag is a good gun for small things out to about 100 yards, and the HMR for smaller things out to 150.  Neither have real "knock down power," and you should be careful not to try to shoot to far or to large game with them.  There is a reason for centerfire.

[Guy Pike]

Neither. Get a 22Hornet and handload it to 22Mag or less for edibles. Pretty fair bullet selection, a pound of powder lasts a long time. Yes, the investment is larger, but so are the rewards!I'm giving a nickel's wort as two cents doesn't go very far anymore!

[woodchukhntr]

Neither. Get a 22Hornet and handload it to 22Mag or less for edibles. Pretty fair bullet selection, a pound of powder lasts a long time. Yes, the investment is larger, but so are the rewards!I'm giving a nickel's wort as two cents doesn't go very far anymore!

I agree.  I've been using the .17HMR for a few years and it performs great on woodchucks, but I limit it to 150 yards or so.  It may be too light for coyotes.  I have a .22 Hornet barrel for my Contender carbine and it works well at up to 200 yards.  I haven't developed a light load yet for it, but will work on one this winter.

[kyelkhunter3006]

Get both!  They are two totally different rounds, IMO.  Kind of like the difference between the 22-250 and the .308.  One is light and fast, the other is kind of right between fast and slow. 

The .17 HMR is not for anything bigger than small game, period.  I'd shoot P-dogs, crows, squirrels, etc out to 200-250 yards with the .17 HMR.  Chucks and stuff, I'd say within 125yds, and I've read about some guys using them for foxes out to 100yds or so.

I would use the .22 Mag on coyotoes, turkeys (where legal), bobcats out to 100-125 yds or so and not think twice about it.  Possum, raccoon, fox and other stuff like that out to 150 yds or a bit more.  Here's the caveat:  I'd only do it with the 40gr HP/JSP stuff from CCi or Winchester.  The lighter loads open up too fast and don't penetrate enough.

Of course, all of the above is assuming that you have a rifle that's accurate enough to let you take shots at those ranges.  And that you can shoot well enough to take advantage of it.

The Marlin 917V I just picked up a couple of weeks ago will let me do it.  Best group at 50yds so far was around .20" and the worst so far as been .65", with the V-Max load.  Straight out of the box, no tweaking.  I was busting pop cans at 125yds offhand with this rifle earlier this week.  My best offhand shooting EVER.

I had the same story with the last Marlin .22 Mag I had, an 83T (before the 900 series came out).  If would shoot the CCi 30gr TNT into around .6" at 50 yards, and the CCi 40gr and Winchester 40gr shot almost as well.  I need to pick up another one in the very near future.

After a hiatus of several years, I'm going back to the rimfire fun full force.  With increased ammo costs, reduced shooting areas and time, rimfires are looking better every minute.

Another plus to the .17 HMR is the fact that it's trajectory at 200 yards from a 100yd zero is very similar to the popular "magnum" blackpowder loads that a lot of people use in their ML'ers today.  You can practice with less recoil, less noise, and less cost, yet still use 200 yd field holds on your target similar to what you'd use for your deer hunting

[BillP]

As kyelk said they are two very different rounds.  The reason I think this has become a popular question is that a lot of people are looking for a step up from the .22LR and they don't want to jump to a centerfire.  The question that they should be asking is, "WHY do I want a step up from the LR?"  To help in this one needs to make a distinction between "small game" (rabbits, squirrels and other things you want to eat) and "varmints"  (small critters and birds that are legitimate targets because of a need to control their numbers).

If your answerer is "I want to hunt game that is a bit too big or a bit too far for the LR", then, unless you are commented to head shots, look for a 22 mag.  On the other hand, if you are a small varmint hunter and want to increase your effective range or decrease the chance of a dangerous ricochet, then go for the HMR.

[Lon371]

 I say get the H&R in the .17 hmr. Send it and have it fit for a .22 mag and you have the best of both worlds

Lonny

[oaknut]

One thing to remember here in PA they change the laws for legal firearms---must be .22 cal. or less during any deer season---which now seem to span most of our small game seasons-----I would go with .22 mag. for the versitility of the round!!

[oaknut]

Sorry need to correct previous post to read .22 cal RIMFIRE!!!

[coyotejoe]

I'm with BillP, .22 mag for edible game and larger varmints out to 125 yards, .17 HMR for gophers and small varmints to 150 maybe 175. I have a beautiful CZ fullstock in .17 HMR and it is fun to plink bottle caps and such at 100 yards or more but since I don't hunt what I don't eat or use in some way I don't find it very useful for hunting. For most edible small game the .22 LR shoots flat enough out to about as far as I ever see a rabbit or squirrel. At present my only .22 mag is an AMT pistol and I do consider it to be an excellent small game handgun. I often carry the .22 mag in a shoulder holster for longer shots and a super Comanche .410 pistol in my hand for jumped bunnies. As a handgun round I consider the .22 mag to be far superior to the .17 HMR.

[rodclop]

I have killed coyotes with the .17HMR around 90 yards with the ballistic tip. just went through which one to get about a month ago decide to go with the .17 HMR for coyotes get a ballistic tip for squirell or small birds get the hollow point doesn't do no more damage than a 22LR on a squirrel and out to 100 yards my marlin 917 .17 hmr shoots good groups

[kevinsmith5]

22 mag and here's why.  Ballistics are close enough to be a wash out to 125 yards (any further than that and you shouldn't be using a rimfire). Basic ammo (standard solid points) for 22 mag is cheaper than any 17 HMR ammo.  Poly tip 22 mag ammo is comparable in price to 17 HMR.  Since most people are going to shoot a lot of rounds through a rimfire I would go with the 22 mag.

[torpedoman]

the new 30 gr bullet for the 22 mag pretty well wiped out the 17's advantage and still delivers more thump than it does.

[montveil]

see my post in the NEF-HR section
montveil

[Ladobe]

Opinions vary.   While I agree neither of the rimfires are for long range big game hunting, they both can do some pretty amazing things farther than most think the can.   I easily prefer the 17 rimfires over the 22 rimfires, but that's just from my experience in my kind of shooting with countless thousands of rounds shot in the field on small game.

An example... the GS's I shoot are small and the desert GS's are even smaller.   At Digger Wars we've shot the Beldings well over 300 yards with the 17HMR's (out to almost 900 yards with the wildcat centerfires).   Not enough power left with the 17HMR at that range?  I'd say this one hit in the shoulder with a 17 grain TNT was pretty much dead on impact.   It was shot at 309 yards with my Bullberry 17 Hummer.  The range was lasered from the mound back to the truck, and is fairly typical of solid hits with the TNT's on these GS's at those ranges.   

[Keith L]

Pretty wood on that carbine.  Bullberry?

[Casull]

Opinions vary.   While I agree neither of the rimfires are for long range big game hunting, they both can do some pretty amazing things farther than most think the can.   I easily prefer the 17 rimfires over the 22 rimfires, but that's just from my experience in my kind of shooting with countless thousands of rounds shot in the field on small game.

An example... the GS's I shoot are small and the desert GS's are even smaller.   At Digger Wars we've shot the Beldings well over 300 yards with the 17HMR's (out to almost 900 yards with the wildcat centerfires).   Not enough power left with the 17HMR at that range?  I'd say this one hit in the shoulder with a 17 grain TNT was pretty much dead on impact.   It was shot at 309 yards with my Bullberry 17 Hummer.  The range was lasered from the mound back to the truck, and is fairly typical of solid hits with the TNT's on these GS's at those ranges.   

That's very interesting.  I recently read an article in Shooting Times where they shot the 17 grain TNT into a ballistic medium at 200 yards and got NO expansion.  They did point out that Hornady claims that they usually get "some" expansion at 200 yards.  BTW, velocity at 200 yards was about 1450 fps, so I'm guessing that at 309 yards it would be under 1000 fps.  Amazing how that squirrel basically exploded at that range and a subsonic velocity.   


 
 

[Ladobe]

Keith - Yep it's the tight chambered Bullberry prototype Hummer with the special stock set Fred made to commemorate it being the first.   Stock is very heavy spalted curly oak with rosewood caps from Fred's private wood stash made to my personal fit specs.

That's very interesting.  I recently read an article in Shooting Times where they shot the 17 grain TNT into a ballistic medium at 200 yards and got NO expansion.  They did point out that Hornady claims that they usually get "some" expansion at 200 yards.  BTW, velocity at 200 yards was about 1450 fps, so I'm guessing that at 309 yards it would be under 1000 fps.  Amazing how that squirrel basically exploded at that range and a subsonic velocity.   

I don't shoot ballistic medium... I shoot flesh and bone at DW and the LJR's, and lots of it.   So I don't rely on articles instead of in the field experience like some folks do.   

At DW (6500') the run of the mill 17HMR still retains over 1300 FPS past 300 yards (and more than that from my custom Bullberry).   What it lacks that is important in killing power is downrange energy of the tiny bullets, having shed over 2/3's of what it started out with at that range.   Even so, when bullet meets bone (as in this shot) its more than enough to disrupt the TNT even at that range regardless of what your article says.   BTW, as sighted in for the Beldings I have about a foot and a half of drop at that range, and a foot of drift in a 5MPH cross wind.   So I do know what this carbine will and won't do from shooting it, not reading about somebody else shooting theirs at silly putty.

[Casull]

I don't shoot ballistic medium... I shoot flesh and bone at DW and the LJR's, and lots of it.   So I don't rely on articles instead of in the field experience like some folks do.   

At DW (6500') the run of the mill 17HMR still retains over 1300 FPS past 300 yards (and more than that from my custom Bullberry).   What it lacks that is important in killing power is downrange energy of the tiny bullets, having shed over 2/3's of what it started out with at that range.   Even so, when bullet meets bone (as in this shot) its more than enough to disrupt the TNT even at that range regardless of what your article says.   BTW, as sighted in for the Beldings I have about a foot and a half of drop at that range, and a foot of drift in a 5MPH cross wind.   So I do know what this carbine will and won't do from shooting it, not reading about somebody else shooting theirs at silly putty.

I see.  Even though Hornady's own information shows the round drops from about 2550 fps at the muzzle to about 1450 fps at 200 yards, your rifle shoots them so that they still have "over 1300 fps past 300 yards".  That's one hell of rifle.   

[quickdtoo]

That would depend on the start velocity, Hornady's 2550fps is nominal, 2600-2700fps is more normal depending on the rifle and barrel length, scroll down to Varmint Al's CZ452 data.

Tim

http://www.varmintal.com/17hmr.htm

[mag-check]

Doug, yes the 22 mag will shoot as good as the HMR as far as hunting goes. With the Rem v-max 22mag at 200yds I think the hold over is only 14" and it still has more knock dow energy at that range again I think its around 92ft.lbs compared to 72 for the 17.

[Ladobe]

I see.  Even though Hornady's own information shows the round drops from about 2550 fps at the muzzle to about 1450 fps at 200 yards, your rifle shoots them so that they still have "over 1300 fps past 300 yards".  That's one hell of rifle.   

Awwww, you finally got it...     Yes, it is one hell of a rifle.   Best of my three 17HMR's even though they are all custom/semi custom and great shooters.

That would depend on the start velocity, Hornady's 2550fps is nominal, 2600-2700fps is more normal depending on the rifle and barrel length, scroll down to Varmint Al's CZ452 data.

Tim

http://www.varmintal.com/17hmr.htm

Spot on Tim... tight chamber, optimum barrel length.   Muzzle velocity is also considerably different depending on elevation and to a smaller extent temperature.     Assuming Hornady's data is from a test firing at their own facility... there is almost 5000' elevation difference between Hornady's plant and where the DW's were held.  So just the elevation difference alone means with any off the shelf 17HMR the MV and downrange velocity would be considerably higher at DW than at Hornady's facility.   

[Casull]

I see.  Even though Hornady's own information shows the round drops from about 2550 fps at the muzzle to about 1450 fps at 200 yards, your rifle shoots them so that they still have "over 1300 fps past 300 yards".  That's one hell of rifle.     



Awwww, you finally got it...     Yes, it is one hell of a rifle.   Best of my three 17HMR's even though they are all custom/semi custom and great shooters.



Quote from: quickdtoo on Today at 03:27:58 PM
That would depend on the start velocity, Hornady's 2550fps is nominal, 2600-2700fps is more normal depending on the rifle and barrel length, scroll down to Varmint Al's CZ452 data.

Tim

http://www.varmintal.com/17hmr.htm


Spot on Tim... tight chamber, optimum barrel length.   Muzzle velocity is also considerably different depending on elevation and to a smaller extent temperature.     Assuming Hornady's data is from a test firing at their own facility... there is almost 5000' elevation difference between Hornady's plant and where the DW's were held.  So just the elevation difference alone means with any off the shelf 17HMR the MV and downrange velocity would be considerably higher at DW than at Hornady's facility.   

Interesting.  I checked out Bulberry's site, and yes lower elevation, but the velocity span between barrels 13 inches to 22 inches (in one inch increments) was 2419 fps to 2538 fps, with the best velocity at 19 inches of barrel length.  I'm curious, what velocity are you getting at the muzzle to end up with near 200 yard velocities at "over 300 yards"?

[mag-check]

I would bet a nice cookie that all the testing on the 17HMR is done at the CCI plant in Idaho. And all the chronographing Ive done with the 22 mag barrel length didnt mean anything some rifle just shot faster I think the smoothness of the bore has alot to do with it.

[torpedoman]

don't know about velocity but hand lapping and molyfusion treatment will result in smaller groups from having a smoother barrel

[wilded]

here is an article I wrote on the two cartridges you might enjoy reading.
http://wildedtx.blogspot.com/2009/01/magnum-rimfire-wars-17hmr-vs-22wmr.html