Author Topic: Why Magnum?  (Read 5605 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Coyote Hunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2534
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2008, 11:44:39 AM »
700 yd. elk rifle!!!. Will any responsible guide even let you shoot at an elk that far off? Why not get a Barret 50 BMG and you could shoot at them @ 1500 yds. ::)

I don't use guides and wouldn't consider such a shot unless conditions were perfect and I had proven myself ready with a lot of practice.  I'm already comfortable out to 600 yards in good conditions with my .300 Win Mag.

That said, I doubt an elk at 700 yards is much more difficult in good conditions (no wind) than clay pigeons at 400 yards, which are one of my favorite targets.

There is at least one other reason for having such a rifle other than taking long shots at elk, and that is to stop a wounded elk that was shot at much closer range and is now beating a path for the next county.  Have never had to do that myself but have seen the need more than once.
Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline Coyote Hunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2534
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2008, 11:49:06 AM »
"Personally, I see no need to upgrade the power of the 30-06 by increasing its speed. I have long held that if you want more power than is available in the 30-06, you do not want more velocity, you want more bullet. Three cartridges that might really use additional velocity are the 308, the 350 RM, and the 458, since each of these is hampered by a case capacity too small for optimum ballistics. (John Gannaway can indeed achieve full velocity in the 350 RM, but only by loading up to the point where the cases are not re-usable.)"

Jeff Cooper


Much as I respect the Colonel for his service, I often disagree with his statements.  You can use heavier bullets in the .30-06 if you choose, but that often reduces the range which, for my needs, is often counterproductive.  When I wqnt to use a .30-06 I have three to choose from but when I want a .300 Win Mag I've got that as well.  The .300 will do everything the .30-06 will do but the .30-06 will NOT do everything the .300 can do.
Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline nomosendero

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5760
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2008, 02:39:37 PM »
I can't speak for everyone, but...  I HATE EVERYTHING NEW!

I hate magnums.  They kick.  I hate smokeless powder, it kicks.  I hate black powder, it kicks.  I hate cars, trucks, and gasoline engines, they make too much noise.  I hate modern medicine, it makes me too comfortable (real men get small pox and polio and they like it). 

I hate computers, pens, phones, TV, and expecially the internet. 

But you know what I really hate the most?  When people use something I don't like...

 ;D

Well said, we can add range finders, good recoil pads coupled with a 1 pound heavier 300WM that would then have felt recoil like a 1 pound lighter 30-06 with a std. pad/buttplate. Yep, gotta love this kind of stuff, kinda shows the novices right off, doesn't it?
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline Bart Solo

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 706
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2008, 02:45:04 PM »
Question Coyote Hunter, where do you live?  

I am beginning to think that a lot of our opinions are significantly influenced by where we live.  People who live on the prairie are more inclined to think about a long shot than folks who live in or near the woods.  People who might actually encounter a bear across an open meadow are more inclined to think about the 50-150 yard shot than others who might encounter one across a canyon.  

Offline Skunk

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3520
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2008, 03:43:42 PM »
I am beginning to think that a lot of our opinions are significantly influenced by where we live.

That's pretty much the case for me. Nothing against anyone who wants to own and shoot a Magnum chambering, but, I just can't see a need for a Mag of any type in my neck of the woods (N. WI.). About the biggest, baddest animal I'm likely to encounter here is a Black Bear. Hopefully, sometime in the future we will once again get to hunt Elk here in the North Woods, but I'm not holding my breath to see it in my lifetime. And by golly, we even get a few Moose coming down from the U.P. of Michigan from time to time. At any rate, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot either a big Black Bear, Elk, or a Moose with my 35 Whelen. The Magnums just seem like overkill in my little world.
Mike

"Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition" - Frank Loesser

Offline nomosendero

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5760
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2008, 05:31:44 PM »
Question Coyote Hunter, where do you live?  

I am beginning to think that a lot of our opinions are significantly influenced by where we live.  People who live on the prairie are more inclined to think about a long shot than folks who live in or near the woods.  People who might actually encounter a bear across an open meadow are more inclined to think about the 50-150 yard shot than others who might encounter one across a canyon.  

Which could prove the point that if people know what works for them where they live or where they hunt & choose accordingly, then what is it to others & why do some try to say what OTHERS should use?
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline Bart Solo

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 706
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2008, 09:28:24 PM »

Which could prove the point that if people know what works for them where they live or where they hunt & choose accordingly, then what is it to others & why do some try to say what OTHERS should use?

It is nothing to others why someone chooses to purchase any firearm. The only people who should be concerned are the purchaser and his spouse who might be asked to forgo some other purchase.

It should be of interest to each of us to examine whether our purchases are the result of real need or marketing hype.  Each of us needs to decide if we really making logical decisions based on genuine need or if we are like Tim the Tool Man on the old television sitcom mindlessly assuming bigger is better? 

I am still looking for a compelling reason to buy a magnum.  So far the best I have heard is that in exchange for high priced ammunition and brutal recoil moderated by an expensive but equally damaging muzzle brake, a magnum would allow me to take shots at impossible distances beyond the comfortable range of 98% of all experienced riflemen.  In other words, some might argue that from my perspective here in the wooded Middle West I have heard little more than the manly brag of Tim the Tool Man Super Sniper.   On the other hand, if someone lives and hunts in the Mountain or Prairie West such shots might be necessary and routine.   Novices especially need to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff. 

Offline Coyote Hunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2534
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2008, 02:34:28 AM »

 ;D

Well said, we can add range finders, good recoil pads coupled with a 1 pound heavier 300WM that would then have felt recoil like a 1 pound lighter 30-06 with a std. pad/buttplate. Yep, gotta love this kind of stuff, kinda shows the novices right off, doesn't it?

In reality, the magnums often weigh little more than their non-magnum counterparts.  Here are some specs I just pulled off the manufacturer web sites:

Ruger Hawkeye, Walnut
7-1/2 pounds, .30-06
7-1/2 pounds, .300 WM

Remington M700 CDL, Walnut
7-1/2 pounds, .30-06
7-5/8 pounds, .300 WM

Remington M700 SPS, Synthetic
7-3/8 pounds, .30-06
7-5/8 pounds, .300 WM



Hmmm, 0 pounds to 1/4 pound with the same recoil pads.  Not a reason for me to choose one over the other.

The rifle I'm building on a standard interarms Mark X action will weigh no more if I chamber it ina .338-375 Ruger wildcat than if I chamber it in .338-06.  The only difference will be the bolt face, feed rails and chamber dimensions. 

Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline Coyote Hunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2534
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2008, 02:41:06 AM »

Well said, we can add range finders, good recoil pads coupled with a 1 pound heavier 300WM that would then have felt recoil like a 1 pound lighter 30-06 with a std. pad/buttplate. Yep, gotta love this kind of stuff, kinda shows the novices right off, doesn't it?

My Browning B92 in .44 Mag with steel buttplate will really wake you up if shooting in a tee-shirt.   The recoil numbers aren't all that impressive, however, along the lines of a .270 Win or .308 Win.  Been surprised a few times - that steel buttplate can HURT...   :o
Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline Coyote Hunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2534
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2008, 03:10:25 AM »
Question Coyote Hunter, where do you live? 

I am beginning to think that a lot of our opinions are significantly influenced by where we live.  People who live on the prairie are more inclined to think about a long shot than folks who live in or near the woods.  People who might actually encounter a bear across an open meadow are more inclined to think about the 50-150 yard shot than others who might encounter one across a canyon. 

Colorado.

I would agree that  the choice of firearms is often influenced by the kind of country people live in and hunt .  As it should be.

Here are a few pictures from previous hunts….

We've taken a number of elk and deer from this area...


Took one from here, thought it would be a 450-500 yard shot until a yahoo on the next hill over cut loose with a volley of at least 8 shots and turned the herd.  I ended up with a 25 foot opportunity but took a shot at 25 yards.



This shot was 126 lasered yards but could just as easily have been 500 yards or more.


Lots of long range potential here...


Miles and miles of this stuff...


My buddy's elk from a couple years back.  Mine is down behind a tree, high up on the snowy slope in the background.


Here's my buddy a couple years back.  Lots of deer and antelope here and elk when they are migrating...


There are about a gazillion elk in this picture....


That's my Marlin .30-30 leaning on the pack...
Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline Syncerus

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 313
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #40 on: December 03, 2008, 03:20:10 AM »
+1 on the steel buttplate comment.

All magnums aren't the same. For example, I have a .350 RM and a .300 WinMag, each of which is designed for a totally different purpose. The .350 is a M673 with a 22" bbl, and has a 1.5x5 scope, while the .300 WinMag is a M70 with a 26" bbl and a 2.5x10 scope. I bought the .350 for shooting wild pigs at ranges under 150 yards. I bought the .300 WinMag when I lived in the West and I could reasonably anticipate shooting at 250-300+ yards.

I would categorize the benefits of "magnum" cartridges in two ways: flat trajectory and power. Some magnums are power magnums, some are trajectory magnums, and a few are both. If you are shooting deer at 125 yards, there's no reason for either, but there are valid scenarios when other factors come into play.

For example, if you are shooting wild pigs at night (legal where I live), it's reasonable to use a larger bore cartridge than you might during the day in order to make recovery easier. I'm not suggesting that bore size is a substitute for shot placement, but it surely doesn't hurt. If you are hunting where there is a reasonable opportunity to make a 250 yard shot, a magnum isn't a bad choice. Not because a 270 won't kill a deer at 250 yards, but because we are so bad at range estimation. I read somewhere that the average person is off by 40% in estimating range, and that figure fits with my personal experience pretty well. A well zeroed .257 Weatherby can shoot dead on at a deer out to about 350 yards,  eliminating the need for range estimation in all but the most extreme circumstances.

The various .300 and .338 magnums are both trajectory and power magnums depending on how they are loaded and the game being hunted. Yes, they can beat you up in a poorly fitting rifle, but that's why you invest in a quality rifle that fits YOU. What I like best about the .300 WinMag is that its the second best choice for 99% of the game in the world. There's always something else that's perfect, but the .300 WinMag (and the other .300 magnums as well) will always do in a pinch.

Buy what makes you happy. If you don't like it, then trade it away and buy something else.
Don't vote for Socialists.

Offline Coyote Hunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2534
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #41 on: December 03, 2008, 03:38:31 AM »

It should be of interest to each of us to examine whether our purchases are the result of real need or marketing hype.  Each of us needs to decide if we really making logical decisions based on genuine need or if we are like Tim the Tool Man on the old television sitcom mindlessly assuming bigger is better?  
Anyone that gives it a little thought knows that bigger is not always better.  I’ve shot many a prairie dog and coyote with my 7mm Rem Mag but would be the first to say there are better choices for serious varminting.  (Hence my .22-250 and .257 Roberts.)

Quote
I am still looking for a compelling reason to buy a magnum.  So far the best I have heard is that in exchange for high priced ammunition and brutal recoil moderated by an expensive but equally damaging muzzle brake, a magnum would allow me to take shots at impossible distances beyond the comfortable range of 98% of all experienced riflemen.  In other words, some might argue that from my perspective here in the wooded Middle West I have heard little more than the manly brag of Tim the Tool Man Super Sniper.   On the other hand, if someone lives and hunts in the Mountain or Prairie West such shots might be necessary and routine.   Novices especially need to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff.  

If you need to look for a reason to buy a magnum, you probably don’t need one.

As pointed out before, though, for handloaders there is very little difference in ammo costs – just a little extra powder.  Some cartridge cases are significantly more expensive than others but this is true for some non-magnums as well.  Premium factory ammo is generally more than I care to pay for regardless of the cartridge.

As to recoil, again it depends.  Some of my .30-06 loads recoil the same as some of my 7mm Rem Mag loads and more than a .257 Weatherby Magnum.  A .35 Whelen can easily recoil just as much as my .300 Win Mag loads.

Hunting elk here in Colorado, a .308 Win would do for every shot I’ve ever taken but I’ve passed on a lot of shots where my .300 WM would be much preferred.
Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline Skunk

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3520
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #42 on: December 03, 2008, 03:59:24 AM »
Coyote Hunter,

Nice Pics posted above. Thanks for sharing. Those big open areas would seem like a perfect place to utilize a Magnum.
Mike

"Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition" - Frank Loesser

Offline Bart Solo

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 706
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #43 on: December 03, 2008, 07:00:55 AM »
I have a lot of family in Colorado and have to agree with Coyote Hunter that those wide open spaces change the way you hunt.  My cousins often ride horses when hunting elk.  Lots of ground to travel.

I love the pictures.   

Offline nomosendero

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5760
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #44 on: December 03, 2008, 12:29:27 PM »
I have a lot of family in Colorado and have to agree with Coyote Hunter that those wide open spaces change the way you hunt.  My cousins often ride horses when hunting elk.  Lots of ground to travel.

I love the pictures.   

Yes indeed, "those wide open spaces change the way you hunt". I hunt out West quite a lot & they do change the way you hunt, or at least some times. But I have also shot Mule Deer at under 50 yards & my best Antelope at under 80 yards, so it is not cut & dried, but I have taken many at extended ranges. But the bigger animals like Elk is where I lean on my 300WM, in case the longer shot presents itself or if I have an angle shot, I like a heavy bullet
for more penetration & with a mag I can get the heavy bullet & the flat trajectory combined.

Concerning recoil, the pad, the weight, the stock design all come in to play. A system approach is the more logical. I
have a 30-06 Featherweight that kicks a good deal more than my 300WM Sendero. The Sendero is heavy, but not
too heavy for me, again all is relative.

But it goes to the individual, if weight or recoil is an issue, get a smaller gun & stay within IT'S limitations or YOURS,
as we should do with any other weapon we choose to use.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline dpastordan

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 177
  • Gender: Male
  • Shooting firearms since 1962
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #45 on: December 03, 2008, 01:09:30 PM »
Great discussion.  I had a friend who caught the 7mm Magnum bug 20 years ago. I was stationed at Fort Bragg, NC, where a big buck dresses about 90 lbs.  That is what he used on them small deer.  But it was his choice [he had a perfectly good .243 and .30-06 by the way].  I had another friend considering an elk gun.  He was moving to Oklahoma and the places he would hunt were wide open.  He had a .270 which is adequate for elk in some locations.  He was considering a 7 Mag but went with a .300 Win Mag.  I have only owned two 7 Magnums.  One a bolt action - it kicks but not as hard as my 12 gauge shooting 3" shells.  I now have a BAR in 7 Mag which is sweet.  It is my long range deer rifle.  To me a rifle is a tool.  What is the application?  Am I hunting deer with shots ranging at 300 yards out west or in the woods where 100 yards is long?  Am I hunting Kodiaks in alders at 30 feet or buffalo at 100 yards?  If my some unknown rich relative were to leave me a tidy sum of money, I would probably consider a trip to Africa with a brand .375 H&H Magnum followed by a spring hunt for Kodiaks in Alaska.  If I were just collecting guns and not shooting them...then I will might buy a few more magnums.  At the moment, my lone magnum meets the need for that hunt over a bean fiield or Western praire.  If Alaska hearkens, then I might consider a .338 or .375 ... until then I'll make do with my .30-06, .270, .30-30 -and the original magnum the .45/70.

Offline nomosendero

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5760
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #46 on: December 03, 2008, 01:26:46 PM »

 ;D

Well said, we can add range finders, good recoil pads coupled with a 1 pound heavier 300WM that would then have felt recoil like a 1 pound lighter 30-06 with a std. pad/buttplate. Yep, gotta love this kind of stuff, kinda shows the novices right off, doesn't it?

In reality, the magnums often weigh little more than their non-magnum counterparts.  Here are some specs I just pulled off the manufacturer web sites:

Ruger Hawkeye, Walnut
7-1/2 pounds, .30-06
7-1/2 pounds, .300 WM

Remington M700 CDL, Walnut
7-1/2 pounds, .30-06
7-5/8 pounds, .300 WM

Remington M700 SPS, Synthetic
7-3/8 pounds, .30-06
7-5/8 pounds, .300 WM



Hmmm, 0 pounds to 1/4 pound with the same recoil pads.  Not a reason for me to choose one over the other.

The rifle I'm building on a standard interarms Mark X action will weigh no more if I chamber it ina .338-375 Ruger wildcat than if I chamber it in .338-06.  The only difference will be the bolt face, feed rails and chamber dimensions. 



Nothing to do with what I was talking about

Coyote Hunter
In reality, I was not talking about std. & magnum rifles of like model at all. If you look at the context of my remark, you would see I was in reference to these cookie cutter remarks we always see about magnums & recoil without considering weight, factory or aftermarket recoil pads, stock design & many issues that contribute to recoil in addition to looking at cartridge alone. I think you saw what I was refering to by your next post after that, but I thought I would clear it up for others just for fun.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline Coyote Hunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2534
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #47 on: December 03, 2008, 05:46:33 PM »
kyelkhunter –

No, I’m not doing much of the work, maybe just the stock finishing.  I’m looking at a Boyd JRS  laminate stock, probably pepper color, with 1” Pachmyer Decelerator pad.  Haven’t decided on the barrel vendor.  A Timney trigger is already on the action.  Total costs won’t get close to the couple grand you mentioned.

A .338-378 doesn’t do anything for me – just another factory rifle.  The one I’m building will be special if for no other reason than I spec’d it out.
Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline grvj

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 28
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #48 on: December 03, 2008, 07:02:37 PM »
...a story re: muzzle brakes...on my very first hog hunt I brought a Ruger #1 in 7x57 scoped with a Leupold 2x7.

...the fellows who invited me turned up in camo shoes, socks, pants, shirts, jackets, hats and had black-out ready for their eyes. They had new Winchester 300 WinMag's, muzzle brakes just installed-holes peppering the tube , black stocks, Harris Bi-pods, big matte scopes. Black slings with loops for lots of extra cartridges.

I felt 'hunt ignorant' in olive pants, an old shirt and a regular jacket with paint on it but felt I could reload the single shot quickly and had practiced with my own loads.

That night I got a hint they might be a problem when we compared re-loads and found about half of theirs had weak neck tension and the Nosler BT's slipped into the case.

The next morning we were in a row-crop, about 35 degree's when I rethought the clothing thing but it was too-late, my camo'd buds seemed cozy and I just had to deal with the cold. The guide split us up in separate trucks looking for hogs-he saw my rifle and had an assistant plant me on a hill overlooking a shallow wash then went down to stir up pigs.

About a hour later the assistant pointed to brush moving and told me to aim at a clearing about 200 yards away. A little pig squirted past then a bigger one trotted in view. With cross-hairs on the head, trigger pulled, the scope picture cleared and the was a hog on it's side kicking hard, blood freely flowing, a hit just behind the front shoulder.

We joined up with my bud's and guide, found they got no shots, saw no pigs. This hunt resumed in the afternoon with us all riding in a truck, I was in the cab the shooters in the back holding on to a roll bar. We drove to hill tops, then coasted with the engine off, windows down listening for something-guides hear hog noise, I just heard wind.

A shout came from the guide "hold on!" - he started the engine, and cooked down a long hill, ahead were about 30 hogs leisurely walking past cows.

The guide stopped, both shooters tumbled out though one popped the bi-pod down and planted the rifle on the truck hood. The guide got out a "don't shoot off the hoo..." when I heard a boom a felt an air blast wrap around my open window and face (which really rang my gong) my hearing was gone and simultaneously saw the white paint on the hood blossom into a 6" blister.

There was more shooting - though my hands were over my ears and I was working my jaw trying to fix the hearing thing, the guide was 10 ft behind shooters, the hogs picked up the pace and were out of sight in seconds. The shooters saw no hits but the guide said one hog had a leg hanging off.

We drove up to an interception point and they both got hits about 150 yards out, small entry holes - big exit wounds. The guide went after the cripple up the side of a hill with his Rem .243, a shot rang out and this 250 lbs of hog came rolling down the hill past me and the road, then continued to the hillside bottom stopping by some grazing cows...who figured a dead pig was not a good sign and moved 50 yds away.

So my experience with muzzle brakes is that they make a lot of noise, a brake equipped firearm needs practice and a guide still has a big hood spot, now rusted to remind him how much he dislikes em.


Offline Bart Solo

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 706
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #49 on: December 03, 2008, 09:42:27 PM »
Great story.

Offline corbanzo

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2405
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #50 on: December 03, 2008, 10:12:01 PM »
I like the magnums... my truck is only a 1/2 ton... so I need to make up for it somehow...   :-\


I am a fan of muzzlebrakes, but only removeable ones.  I believe they have their place, which is at the bench, away from other people.  It's just like everything else that has to do with shooting and hunting sports... you have to realize what you do affects the people and objects around you. 
"At least with a gun that big, if you miss and hit the rocks in front of him it'll stone him to death..."

Offline drdougrx

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (10)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3212
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #51 on: December 04, 2008, 01:59:55 AM »
Thats a great story.  I had kinda the same thing happen on a recent bear hunt.  Couple'a nice fellers, really fun and pleasent guys, came with enough firepower and added equipment to supply the infantry.  One even carried a 6x8 tarp in case he had to spend the night in the woods.  One had a desert eagle and the other an HK 40cal, really big knives, 22 pistiols, many extra clips, several tac lights, camo everything, even bandanas, and rifles with lit reticles and calibers way over .30.  Farkles!  One actually shot a bear though less than 100lbs.


Now...I'll admit that I used a .300win and 200gr NosABs.  Last time I used this rifle was in 1994 on a NEWFI moose/caribou/black bear hunt, so, I wanted to dust it off.  I killed a bear and the cartidge was way more than I needed.  I used it because I had it and wanted to dust it off.  My last two bears fell to a .270 and and 06 with no problems at all.   It and my .375 HH are the only magnums I own (except for a .17HRM which doesn't count).  I'd like to say that I use the mags for this or that, but, after killing several dozen big game animals all over the US and Canada, my 300 only accounts for a moose and bear, my 375 accounts for a bison (I had to try IT!)  So...shoot'm if ya got'm I say....but do you NEED'm...well...to each his own so long as you can hit what you shoot at.
If you like, please enjoy some of my hunt pics at:

http://public.fotki.com/DrDougRx

If you leave a comment, please leave your GB screen name so that I can reply back!

Offline no guns here

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1671
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #52 on: December 04, 2008, 02:13:00 AM »
I'm not a MAGNUM guy... don't see the need.  I WON'T shoot far enough to use the extra power.  I figure me .30-'06's will get me to 300 or better.  For that matter so will my .308.  My 6mm will too on appropriate game.  My .376 Steyr will get there as well if I want it to.  I guess my .45-70's would if I practiced enough and had a laser range finder.  The old .30-30's aint gonna get me that far with the energy that I want to put on target out there.  The AR will get there for varmints.  The muzzle loaders and slug guns ain't gonna get there ever.  90% of the places I've ever hunted were set up for practical shots at less than 100 yds.  Some were in 100-200 range.  I've never hunted somewhere that I KNEW my only shots would be at greater than 250 yards.  I'll get closer.  My personal limit is somewhere in the 300 yd range depending on circumstances, weather, shot, game condition etc.  I've never had anywhere to practice that was more than 300 yds long.  Heck I've never killed anything over about 150 yds away.  I thought I would one time on a gas line in 'bama but then I just moved to a closer tree the next day and made the easy 90 yard shot.  Maybe if I had my own 1000 yd range I'd develop a need...  More power to y'all that NEED it.  Have fun and be safe.

ngh
"I feared for my life!"

Offline jro45

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1923
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #53 on: December 04, 2008, 05:46:22 AM »
I have a brake on two of my rifles But I take them off when I go hunting with them. I also own the 458 Lott with out a brake a 416 also without a brake. The only time I use the brake is when I sight them for a hunt with that rifle.

Offline Skunk

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3520
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #54 on: December 04, 2008, 06:29:08 AM »
My Model 70 Classic Sporter .270 has the BOSS Tuner/Brake system and although IMO a .270 doesn't really need a brake, I have to say that I truly enjoy shooting this particular rifle because the lack of recoil makes it feel like I was hit in the shoulder with a pillow rather than the butt of a rifle stock.
Mike

"Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition" - Frank Loesser

Offline PartsMan

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1351
  • Gender: Male
  • Proud Handi Owner
    • myspace
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #55 on: December 04, 2008, 06:52:09 AM »
Thank god we have the choice.
Imagine walking in a gun shop and all the rifles are 30-06 or 45-70.
Sure they will work but I WANT CHOICES.

Most hunters don't shoot a box of shells a year.
What difference does it make if he has "too much" power?

I don't own a magnum now but would like to have one some day.
So far my 270 will out shoot me so I can wait.

There are plenty of people that can utilize the extra range of a magnum.
Many of them post on this site.

Offline Coyote Hunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2534
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #56 on: December 04, 2008, 08:05:47 AM »
Thank god we have the choice.
Imagine walking in a gun shop and all the rifles are 30-06 or 45-70.
Sure they will work but I WANT CHOICES.

Amen!  Haven't "needed" another big game rifle since I got my first, a 7mm RM, back in 1982.  But I sure enjoy having a safe full of choices now.

Quote
Most hunters don't shoot a box of shells a year.
What difference does it make if he has "too much" power?
...

You often hear various cartridges condemned becaus they are "unnecessary" or "too much" for Joe Average, who "can't take advantage of them anyway"..

Can anyone explain just why in the HE11 my choices in firearms should be limited based on the wants/needs/preferences/fears/whatever of someone like that ???

A few years back a woman I worked with excoriated me for buying a Ford F250 Diesel, the primary usage for which would be to commute 60 miles one way to work.  She thought I should buy an econocar.  (She was from Boulder, go figure.)  Like an econocar would tow my boat on weekends or my camper during hunting season...
Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline Bart Solo

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 706
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #57 on: December 04, 2008, 10:23:15 AM »
"A few years back a woman I worked with excoriated me for buying a Ford F250 Diesel, the primary usage for which would be to commute 60 miles one way to work.  She thought I should buy an econocar.  (She was from Boulder, go figure.)  Like an econocar would tow my boat on weekends or my camper during hunting season..."

How did you handle $4.00 per gallon gas? 

You are right.  You are free to do whatever the heck you want.  If you can afford something buy it. 

I started this thread because I wanted somebody to give me a real reason to buy a magnum.  I have come to the conclusion that a magnum might be useful if I lived in the open prairie, but in my part of the country a shot over 100--150 yards yards is rare.  All the same I see guys going into the woods with their magnums loaded for 120 pound deer. 

The comment that the average guy doesn't shoot a box a year so what does it matter is interesting. Frankly as a guy who walks around in the woods during deer season, I want every person carrying a rifle or shotgun to be as good a shot and as calm a hunter as possible. That takes practice. Maybe the average guy would shoot more than a box a year if he enjoyed shooting at the range.  Maybe he would enjoy his trigger time if he didn't suffer from shoulder pain much of the following week.  I could be wrong but I think we should be encouraging every hunter to practice.   Maybe fewer guides would end up with rust on their hoods.

Offline Tunaman

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 464
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #58 on: December 04, 2008, 12:03:34 PM »
Ron,
Buy whatever you want. None of us have to hunt with your rifle's, so buy whatever makes you happy. I own Rifles that I really have no need for but I enjoy the heck out of them. I have both a 240 and a 257 weatherby mag. They overlap each other's capabilitys but I like each one just the same. I own 3 different 25 calibers, when all that i really need is one. I own multiple 7mm and 30 cals when just one would do just fine, and I have a 35 wheelen that I frankly have to make up reasons to hunt with and I really do not need 2 45/70s but I have them. Buy what you want hunt with it. The 257 Weatherby hunts with me a lot, but most of the mags don't. The reality is that if I wanted to, I could take advantage of the magnums with long shots on a regular basis, meaning that I have the avaliability of long shots on a pretty regular basis but even with a magnum in my hand, I usually take shots under 200. Usually.

Coyote Hunter,
I too unfortunatly drive a 250 deisel. The fuel prices hurt but not as much as a second car payment would have because i too have to have something to pull my boats. One weighs 15,000lbs, Try to pull that with a camary.

Offline roper

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 714
Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #59 on: December 05, 2008, 12:29:01 AM »

I don't use guides and wouldn't consider such a shot unless conditions were perfect and I had proven myself ready with a lot of practice.  I'm already comfortable out to 600 yards in good conditions with my .300 Win Mag.


  CH just before you became a Moderator here then quit you posted some picture taken on a guided cow elk hunt from one of the sponors here if I'm not mistaken.  I also followed your post here and on 24hr camfire about how you and fellow members of your gun club could ban a shooter from shooting by a simple vote of member present if that member had a muzzle brake and you all didn't like the noise.  Since your gun club requried  all member to be NRA members I did question how that ban and a NRA members rights under the  Second Amendment worked.