Author Topic: Why Magnum?  (Read 5630 times)

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Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #90 on: December 18, 2008, 04:05:27 AM »
I don't doubt that you have a real need for that 300 Win Mag.  You live in Colorado.  I spent last weekend visiting family in Lamar.  Enough said about wide open spaces.  That you limit your use of your rifles to very few bullets is pretty understandable.  Why not?  You can afford several rifles.

Ron –

With the exception of Alaska, Maine, Vermont, and possibly South Carolina and Rhode Island, I’ve been to every state in this country.  In every state I’ve visited I have seen places where hunters could take advantage of a flat shooting magnum.  (We’ll ignore that some states, like Iowa where I grew up, do not allow hunting with centerfire rifles regardless of the cartridge, as a .30-06 wouldn’t work there, either.) 
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My point about the merits of the 30-06 is that 102 years ago the army hit a home run. They produced an accurate cartridge with enormous room to grow.  I still think people would be hard pressed to find a cartridge with a broader range of applications.  That is why it has stood the test of time.

The Army did indeed develop a great cartridge.  Then they decided it wasn’t so great and developed the 7.62 NATO/.308 Win and deemed it “better”.  Later they decided that wasn’t so great either and they switched to a 5.56/.223 Rem.  Seems like they can’t make up their mind.

As I’ve said, though, the .30-06 is a great cartridge and I wouldn’t have three if it were otherwise. Wouldn’t have a .308 Win, either, if I didn’t think highly of it.  If I had to reduce my rifle count to one, however, the .30-06 would likely NOT be the sole survivor.  More likely I would keep the 7mm Rem Mag or .300 Win Mag.

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Is the 30-06 best at anything? No, there are any number of cartridges (including lots of magnums) that are better for just about any particular task, but the 30-06's flexibility makes it a very valuable back up. That you can find ammunition for it in just about any backwoods store enhances its value.  For a lot of folks the fact that 30-06 ammunition is relatively cheap is very important.   
Cheap ammo is important to a lot of folks, but I reload and shoot premium ammo for the cost of mediocre .30-06 factory ammo.  The cost delta between my .30-06 and magnum hunting ammo is primarily the difference in powder costs, about $0.03 per cartridge more for my .300 Win than my .30-06.  Not only is such a difference unimportant in the extreme when I am shooting bullets that cost $1 or more each, I can always download the .300 Win to .30-06 velocities and reduce costs accordingly.  Talk about flexibility, my 7mm Rem Mag and .300 Win Mag will both do everything my .30-06s will do, and then some.  Can’t say the reverse is true.  And I have yet to find a store selling .30-06 ammo that doesn't also carry .300 Win Mag and 7mm Rem Mag ammo.  Maybe you run into that out east, but not around here.

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I guess my point was that if I was going off grid for a year and could take only one firearm I would take my 30-06.  My 870 Remington 12 gauge, a 30-30 lever gun, or a Ruger 10/22 might also be good choices, but on balance I think I would take my 30-06.     

My choice would depend highly on just where I was going and what I would be doing.  If you’re talking about a collapse of civilization my choice would likely be much different than if I was just going out to be a law-abiding hermit in a cabin somewhere.  In the former case I might well choose a .223 semi-auto as I could carry a lot more ammo, could still make killing shots on big game, and wouldn’t destroy small game. Or I might choose a semi-auto in .308 Win.  In the latter case of a temporary hermit, shooting would be for fun and rarely for hunting so the choice really wouldn’t make much difference.


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Offline nomosendero

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Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #91 on: December 18, 2008, 04:28:59 AM »
I don't doubt that you have a real need for that 300 Win Mag.  You live in Colorado.  I spent last weekend visiting family in Lamar.  Enough said about wide open spaces.  That you limit your use of your rifles to very few bullets is pretty understandable.  Why not?  You can afford several rifles.

Ron –

With the exception of Alaska, Maine, Vermont, and possibly South Carolina and Rhode Island, I’ve been to every state in this country.  In every state I’ve visited I have seen places where hunters could take advantage of a flat shooting magnum.  (We’ll ignore that some states, like Iowa where I grew up, do not allow hunting with centerfire rifles regardless of the cartridge, as a .30-06 wouldn’t work there, either.) 
Quote
My point about the merits of the 30-06 is that 102 years ago the army hit a home run. They produced an accurate cartridge with enormous room to grow.  I still think people would be hard pressed to find a cartridge with a broader range of applications.  That is why it has stood the test of time.

The Army did indeed develop a great cartridge.  Then they decided it wasn’t so great and developed the 7.62 NATO/.308 Win and deemed it “better”.  Later they decided that wasn’t so great either and they switched to a 5.56/.223 Rem.  Seems like they can’t make up their mind.

As I’ve said, though, the .30-06 is a great cartridge and I wouldn’t have three if it were otherwise. Wouldn’t have a .308 Win, either, if I didn’t think highly of it.  If I had to reduce my rifle count to one, however, the .30-06 would likely NOT be the sole survivor.  More likely I would keep the 7mm Rem Mag or .300 Win Mag.

Quote

Is the 30-06 best at anything? No, there are any number of cartridges (including lots of magnums) that are better for just about any particular task, but the 30-06's flexibility makes it a very valuable back up. That you can find ammunition for it in just about any backwoods store enhances its value.  For a lot of folks the fact that 30-06 ammunition is relatively cheap is very important.   
Cheap ammo is important to a lot of folks, but I reload and shoot premium ammo for the cost of mediocre .30-06 factory ammo.  The cost delta between my .30-06 and magnum hunting ammo is primarily the difference in powder costs, about $0.03 per cartridge more for my .300 Win than my .30-06.  Not only is such a difference unimportant in the extreme when I am shooting bullets that cost $1 or more each, I can always download the .300 Win to .30-06 velocities and reduce costs accordingly.  Talk about flexibility, my 7mm Rem Mag and .300 Win Mag will both do everything my .30-06s will do, and then some.  Can’t say the reverse is true.  And I have yet to find a store selling .30-06 ammo that doesn't also carry .300 Win Mag and 7mm Rem Mag ammo.  Maybe you run into that out east, but not around here.

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I guess my point was that if I was going off grid for a year and could take only one firearm I would take my 30-06.  My 870 Remington 12 gauge, a 30-30 lever gun, or a Ruger 10/22 might also be good choices, but on balance I think I would take my 30-06.     

My choice would depend highly on just where I was going and what I would be doing.  If you’re talking about a collapse of civilization my choice would likely be much different than if I was just going out to be a law-abiding hermit in a cabin somewhere.  In the former case I might well choose a .223 semi-auto as I could carry a lot more ammo, could still make killing shots on big game, and wouldn’t destroy small game. Or I might choose a semi-auto in .308 Win.  In the latter case of a temporary hermit, shooting would be for fun and rarely for hunting so the choice really wouldn’t make much difference.




I agree with all of that. The 7 is great, but for me the 300WM gives me what I want when I use more than the 06' &
like I have said before, I used the 7 hard for a decade roughly.

For a hunting round & as an all-round choice (don't believe in 1) I could use the '06 & have owned at least 1 (2 right now) for the past 25 years with a small gap. I have used a 300WM for the past 12 years & if for some wierd reason I could only have one of all of these it would be the 300WM for sure, best for me & a person has to decide this for there own uses.

If it was survival, then again I would agree with what you said.
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Offline Bart Solo

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Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #92 on: December 18, 2008, 06:09:59 AM »
I wasn't talking about the end of civilization.  I was talking about spending a year off the grid.  Maybe in a cabin in Alaska or Canada.  (I understand that is actually something people really do.)

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #93 on: December 18, 2008, 09:02:46 AM »
I wasn't talking about the end of civilization.  I was talking about spending a year off the grid.  Maybe in a cabin in Alaska or Canada.  (I understand that is actually something people really do.)

For off-grid in Alaska or Canada my .45-70 Marlin would get the nod over my .30-06s.  Its good past 200 yards and is a better bear/moose stopper than a .30-06.
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Offline Bart Solo

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Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #94 on: December 18, 2008, 11:44:01 AM »
I was thinking about a 45-70 this afternoon.  Good choice.  Of course, I might want to shoot something other than a moose or bear during the year. 

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #95 on: December 18, 2008, 01:48:49 PM »
I was thinking about a 45-70 this afternoon.  Good choice.  Of course, I might want to shoot something other than a moose or bear during the year. 

300g cast over 13.5g HS6 = 1167fps = .22 speeds.  Very accurate, very cheap (around $2.50 per box of 20), minimal recoil (about 8 foot-pounds).  Good small game load.  Then there are about a zillion loads between that and what I call my "Rhino Blaster" loads -- 460g hardcast at 1812fps with 48 foot pounds recoil and devastating penetration.
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Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: Why Magnum?
« Reply #96 on: December 18, 2008, 05:40:45 PM »
I was thinking about a 45-70 this afternoon.  Good choice.  Of course, I might want to shoot something other than a moose or bear during the year. 

By the way, I highly recommend the .45-70 Marlins.  Lots of fun!

If you get one let me know and I'll send you all my laod data (around 250 loads from different manufacturers, from mild to wild) plus my chrono data (bunches of loads) and final load data (18 or 19).
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