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Author Topic: Winter project. Topper model 158. 22 Rem. jet  (Read 3008 times)

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Offline wn1951

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Winter project. Topper model 158. 22 Rem. jet
« on: November 30, 2008, 09:26:21 AM »
Newbie here and first post. Found this site googling and seems to be best place for some helpful info.

Came upon a 22 jet topper model 158 several years ago(at least fifteen) and have been unable to locate consistent ammo and/or reloading info over the past years. I have relied upon a friend to try some loads to the best of his knowledge, but have never been able to get any consistency whatsoever from the gun. This has been an off again on again project. I need to decide whether I want to keep and make a somewhat reliable shooter or eventually sell with all of my extras--bullets, casings, dies, etc.(although I would know how to go about this).

I have been told over the years in asking around locally, that this caliber will never shoot reliably, and should not spend much time on it. I am not an enthusiast or collector by any stretch, so my knowledge is quite limited. As a matter of fact, I had a "knowledgeable" person slug the barrell when I first got it and was told it was egged shaped. No way of knowing how true this might be. Same person said the twist was 1-16, but what little I have found suggest this to not be the case.

It looks like that the correct bullet is a 35 gr. .223, but I have also seen .222 and .224 listed in 35 and 45 gr. Powders vary, and my friend's patience can only try so many combinations. So far, we have tried IMR 4200 and 4227 with .222 to .224 and no luck.

If someone has enough experience with these to tell me that it is an effort in futility, then I'll bite the bullit(no pun intended) and give up. Since it so much of an oddball, and not many around, I would really like to make it a reliable shooter for spring gobbler hunting.

Sorry for the first long post, but I searched what was available here and have googled over the years looking for help. Not much discussion, and most references are to the pistol, anyway.
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Offline Spanky

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Re: Winter project. Topper model 158 Rem. jet
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2008, 11:15:45 AM »
Get ahold of Stimpylu32 on here.
He has experience with the Jet and reloading for it.



Spanky
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Offline stimpylu32

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Re: Winter project. Topper model 158 Rem. jet
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2008, 02:18:47 PM »
wn1951

Got your PM , couple things to start with , first slug your barrel to see what it truly is , a 222 , 223 or 224 , I'm going to guess that you will find a 222 , so your choices for bullets may be limited to cast unless you can find some OLD stock somewere . ( Remington 40g jacketed SP # B22990 )

Another thing that I have found is that most all load data says to avoid the .224 dia bullets and to make sure that there is no case lube left on the brass before shooting the Jet , it will allow the case to slide around in the chamber too much , not as bad as in the old S&W revolvers but still an issue for consistency .

The Jet was never meant to be a hotrod so keeping the speed down is a must , also it was never meant to be a 200 yard shooter , I would start with either a 38g or 45g cast bullet and a charge of 3.5g of Unique . that should give you a velocity of around 1300 fps with the 38g and around 1250 fps with the 45g .

With a dead on 50 yard zero you will be around 4" low at 100 yards , +/- 1/4" , That is the max that I have shot my Jet so far . another powder that does well in the Jet is SR 4756 if it can still be had .

Hope this helps some , mine is still a work in progress , which means that I may not do anything else with it till spring and warm weather .  ;D

And sorry if this post kinda jumps around .

stimpy
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Offline wn1951

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Re: Winter project. Topper model 158 Rem. jet
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2008, 05:20:38 PM »
Thanks for the help. I had the barrell slugged when I first came across it and was given these numbers. 6 lands and grooves.
#1.---.2243/.2245/.2240
#2.---.2243/.2242/.2240


Person who did this commented the barrell was egg shaped. I can't verify or dispute. Nor can I attest for this person's reliability. Just someone at a gun shop that I left the gun with several years ago. I still have some .223 Sierra 45 gr. Hornet and .222 Sierra 40 gr. Jet.

Have previosly tried IMR 4227--10.0 grs. w/.222 and 10.5 grs. w/ .223.
Also tried IMR 4200-- 12grs. and M1680-- 14.0 grs.

I also have a box of twenty of the 22 Rem. Jet from OWS that I have not tried yet. I wrote them to see what the bullit diameter was.

One more thing. I did see a quip on the 4756 somewhere, and it said to use 6.7 grs.

A work in progress is putting it mildly. If you know of any reputable shops over your way, I am willing to put a little $$ into to get a good reliable assessment of the piece.
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Offline wn1951

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Re: Winter project. Topper model 158 Rem. jet
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2008, 12:58:18 PM »
Received a response from Old Western Scrounger. Their 22 jet is .222, made to S&W specs.--whatever that is.
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Offline jedman

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Re: Winter project. Topper model 158 Rem. jet
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2009, 12:39:23 PM »
If you decide to sell it , it might be more valuable than you think.
Check out what this one sold for last week on Gunbroker.
    Jedman

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=119327877
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Offline Hofs01

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Re: Winter project. Topper model 158 Rem. jet
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2009, 05:34:59 AM »
HOLY SMOKES!!!!!!!

now that may get me to rethinking things a bit!
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Offline Hofs01

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Re: Winter project. Topper model 158 Rem. jet
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2009, 05:40:27 AM »
Quote from: stimpylu32 on December 01, 2008, 02:18:47 PM
unless you can find some OLD stock somewere . ( Remington 40g jacketed SP # B22990 )


I have been fortunate to find many sorses for the old Hornady #2210 22 Caliber Bullets (.222) 40 Gr Jet.

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=8615840
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Offline MSP Ret

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Re: Winter project. Topper model 158 Rem. jet
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2009, 06:35:45 AM »
his appears to be a .224....<><....:)
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Offline Airsporter

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Re: Winter project. Topper model 158 Rem. jet
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2009, 12:56:35 PM »
There is a lot of 'stuff' floating around about the .22 Jet, based mostly on the original offering in the S&W Model 53 S&W revolver.  It had a .222 barrel, probably so S&W could use their existing .22RF barrels, and it was sold with chamber inserts to fire 22RF.

In addition to the H&R Topper, Marlin once offered the Model 62 lever action rifle and Thompson/Center Contender was also offered for a time.

The Model 53 had problems with the cylinder locking up (cartridge set back) with hot and even not-so-hot loads, often blamed on handloads with remaining case lube - maybe so.  As I understand, velocity was originally advertised at .22 Hornet levels in a 8 3/8" revolver (~2600fps with a 40 gr bullet).  Actual production ammo was more like a .22 Win RF Mag @ 2000fps - from the revolver.

As MSP mentioned, the H&R is most likely a .224 barrel. 
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Offline wn1951

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Re: Winter project. Topper model 158 Rem. jet
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2009, 04:36:00 AM »
I finally got around to trying to slug the barrell. My first time ever. Don't know if I did everything corrrectly, but the results from two slugs were as follows: I measured three different diameters by rotating the slug.

#1. .2245/.2243/.2234

#2. .2242/.2230/.2235
EDIT---these are revised upon remeasuring.

Used calipers borrowed from a fellow at work. Realizing, I may be off a hair, it still appears not to be perfectly round. Perhaps this is somewhat to be expected. I dunno. It might pay me to try again.

Also, the price on the jet mentioned above was for an unfired one. That certainly would have a large effect on the price, wouldn't it?
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Offline Airsporter

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Re: Winter project. Topper model 158 Rem. jet
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2009, 01:09:13 PM »
Totally an OTT auction!  ::)
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Offline Airsporter

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Re: Winter project. Topper model 158 Rem. jet
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2009, 01:10:24 PM »
FYI, OTT = Over-The-Top
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Offline Hofs01

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Re: Winter project. Topper model 158 Rem. jet
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2009, 04:56:31 PM »
Who knows if it was really unfired.

I will slug my jet barrel this weekend and give you my results.

What did you use for the slug?
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Offline wn1951

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Re: Winter project. Topper model 158 Rem. jet
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2009, 10:51:09 AM »
I had some soft lead that I just used a piece of. Would have used a split shot, but didn't have correct size.
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Offline -mike-

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Re: Winter project. Topper model 158 Rem. jet
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2009, 08:13:13 AM »
I just got the same gun last week. Here's what I know so far.

My bore is 224. Which I am very thankful for. Brass is readily availible in the form of 357 magnum brass. I anneal the cases, fun them into a RCBS 22 RJ seater die with the seating stem removed, run them thru the full length sizer, with the decapping stem removed, trim to length, prime them and Im good to go.

Id be happy to make some brass for you. Heck I even have some original factory jet cartridges, but I think shooting these might be a bad financial choice.

What I plan on doing is loading up some 222, 223 and 224 bullets see what the gun likes best, then decide if I want to keep the barrel, or sell it, the brass and dies to someone else.
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Offline Airsporter

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Re: Winter project. Topper model 158 Rem. jet
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2009, 11:29:27 PM »
Graf & Sons have 22 Jet brass in stock.  PRVI makes decent ammo in my experience.

http://www.grafs.com/metallic/622
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Offline wn1951

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Re: Winter project. Topper model 158 Rem. jet
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2009, 02:12:54 PM »
I have plenty of brass. New and used. I'll be interested in what diameter you end up with and what your slugs show. Seems what little info I have found over the years does not suggest .224.

Oh, almost forgot. Had a local offer of $250, but I am inclined to try and see if I can work this out and get some positive results.
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Offline wn1951

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Re: Winter project. Topper model 158. 22 Rem. jet
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2009, 05:55:51 AM »
Since I did not know what I was doing on some original measurements :-[ :-[ I have re-measured and even did 3 more slugs. 6 lands and grooves. I am learning as I go. Anyway, the total picture.

Original slugs from years ago.-2 slugs
.2245/.2243/.2240
.2243/.2242/.2240

My first attempt.-2 slugs
.2245/.2243/.2234
.2242/.2235/.2230

My second attempt.-3 slugs
.2245/.2245/.2242
.2240/.2232/.2232
.2240/.2240/.2235

Obviously, it is difficulut to exactly determine the 4th place and also be sure I have measured the exact middle across the grooves. If these numbers are somewhat typical of what a novice would expect, I would appreciate any input. Does it look like some determination can be made to suggest a proper bullet to begin with?
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