Author Topic: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them  (Read 7770 times)

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Offline seacoastartillery

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Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« on: November 30, 2008, 01:35:48 PM »
     
    The primary purpose of this thread is to have a special place for our members to post their cannon discoveries found in a park, cemetery, public building or wherever they may have been found.  We are thinking primarily of full size guns, upon which you might want to base a smaller version. (Added on Monday)        

     Finding cannons is a lot like finding gold.  Put very simply, they are where you find them.  Sure we do quite a bit of research before we go out cannon hunting, but sometimes, even armed with the state name, the town name and the park name you still have a devil of a time finding them.  When we find ourselves spinning around in an unfamiliar town, we quickly look for people who know their town and it’s features thoroughly.  To lessen our frustration we asked a policeman in South Duxbury, Mass., a pizza delivery girl in Westerly, Rhode Island and a bicycle shop owner in Exeter, New Hampshire.  In all cases their directions were good and they saved us hours of grid pattern search time. 

     Fort Washington, on the Potomac River about two hours float south of Washington, DC has always been on our itinerary, but always was bypassed due to time constraints.  This October we finally made it.  It is a second system fort with a few third system gun batteries and a few Endicott Period batteries and fortifications too.  It’s an absolutely fascinating place with a very friendly and knowledgeable staff as well.  Someday we will post other pictures from the main fort, but for now we will explain a completely surprising discovery we found at one of the Endicott Batteries on the grounds, but separate from the fort, itself. 

     It was almost dusk when we started to leave the Fort Washington grounds.  As Mike drove slowly along the main road toward the main gate, I spotted an old barracks building on the right.  Once past this, we saw a large monolithic grey concrete structure, typical of Endicott Period batteries.  As we slowly motored by, I spotted a faint horizontal line intersected from above by an arc.  This is an indication of a possible field artillery piece, whether it’s behind a chain link fence or in the woods.  We parked the car near a sign that told visitors about 12” Coast Artillery Mortars, Model 1890 and walked toward that fence.  When we arrived in front of the gate, the lyrics to an old Roger Miller tune came to mind:

              3rd Stanza from  “King of the road”  by Roger Miller

                            I know every engineer on every train
                            All of their children, and all of their names
                            And every handout in every town
                            And every lock that ain't locked
                            When no one's around.

     In this case there was no lock at all, just a loop of chain drooped over the gate post, so we swung the gate open and continued with our mission, finding cannon.  We looked to the left…..junk.  We looked to the right……BINGO !!   See pics below.

     Have fun cannon hunting, but don’t break any laws getting those photos.  We don’t.  If a gate is locked, we stay out.  If a sign says DO NOT ENTER, we don’t.  We don’t trespass on property that is posted. 

Regards,  T&M


From the fort's terraplein, a south westerly view of the Potomac River.




The fence and what we spotted from the car.




Mike walks toward the fence past the shell handling and target plotting rooms of this mortar battery.




A sharp-eyed old fart grinning like a Cheshire Cat.




A faint Waterveliet at the top is about it as far as markings go as many layers of paint obscure them.




Mike is very quick to insist that I explain that this is NOT a test-fire session and that IS NOT a target.




Tube from Waterveliet Arsenal.  Carriage from Rock Island Arsenal.




A "bone yard" of field carriage parts behind the "target".


Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline KABAR2

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2008, 03:29:51 PM »
I've always liked that model gun   ;D  Nice find!

One question though, what is the cord or wire coming off the breech?
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2008, 01:26:52 PM »
     Thanks Allen, we have always like the lines on this gun as well.  We suspect that the purpose of the plastic clad small dia, steel cable was to keep people from opening the breech block while the gun was on display in lieu of welding it closed.  A little peek at that real short chamber was what we needed and we left the breech block Exactly the way we found it.  All three of these US 3.2-INCH FIELD GUNS, the MODELS 1885, 1890, and the 1897 were designed before the real designers retired and the "add-a-gadget" boys took over as they certainly did in WWI.

     Interesting features on the gun we discovered were the axial vent on this Model 1890 and the smaller chamber of the 1897 which was designed for smokeless powder.  Almost all Model 1890 guns had a liner installed which reduced their chamber size by over one-half to upgrade them for use with smokeless.  Only the  Model 1885 has the radially placed vent like an Ordnance Rifle does.  The axial vent, like a 12 pdr. Whitworth, puts the vent bushing right in the center of the obturator spindle and is held in place by threads fore and aft.  The obturator is an asbestos pad soaked completely in beef tallow and covered with canvas.  Almost a duplicate of the De Bange Obturator used in many WWI guns.  De Bange's had a piece of tin over the canvas for durability, but functioned similarly.

     Interesting too, is that the cheeks were called "flasks" on these guns and you can understand why when you look at them.  Forged components abound for strength and  to reduce machining time.  Rolled and welded steel is evident in those "flasks"which add rigidity while reducing weight.  Those of you in the mid-west can see a pristine example of the Model 1890 in the Rock Island Arsenal Museum.

     Grab those old photos and scan them or at least tell us about your discovery!

Regards,

Mike and Tracy



Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline rays89

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2008, 04:22:41 PM »
Well here is a real challenge this cannon is located at FT nonsense in Morristown New Jersey. It took me over an hour to find it and it involved going up a dirt road. I am grateful nobody stole this Gem because it would be so easy. And it would be a great loss to revolutnary war history. I am sorry the lightinging is bad (Shadows) But it was dated prior to the Revolutionary war. I have to go back when the lighting is right,. But I do have a picture of the markings on the barrel. can anybody Identify them? As for anybody else who wants to see this cannon good luck it is a challenge to find. But it is a public park. And is well worth checking out



Offline rays89

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2008, 04:54:21 PM »
I am sorry for the double post but I wanted a closer picture of the barrel marking. It would be nice to know the orgin. Cat whisper I know you are the pro any idea? or does anybody else know of its orgin?
 

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2008, 07:33:32 PM »
I think that cannon is a repro, probably intended to be a British bronze field gun, perhaps a light 3 pdr. or 6 pdr., I didn't see measurements.  It makes sense that a repro would be left outside like that, not so much worry about theft.  The workmanship (definition of marking specifically) on the bronze is inferior to that of authentic Brit pieces of the 18th C.   The mark is supposed to be that of the Master General of Ordnance, probably Legonier in this case, can't remember for sure.  That MGO mark is normally on the chase as opposed to where this one is.  The casting around it looks very grainy as in sand casting without enough finishing or turning.  All the British bronze field guns would have the royal cypher on the breech (such as a crown with GR monogram, and II or III as appropriate under that.)  There doesn't appear to be such a mark on this item.

Offline KABAR2

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2008, 12:02:33 AM »
I think you'll find Cannonmn is right, the raised casting doesn't look right, was probably bought during the Bi-Centennial

for a living history program, once the program folded it got a home in the park.
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline rays89

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2008, 01:55:34 PM »
I am surrounded by bogus artillery ugh. The Cannon is dated But due to the shadows I couldn't get a picture. But sure I can put a date on anything and say it is legit If I am able I can try to get up there and get better pictures. I will. There is a Bicentenial quarter covering the vent hole hmm a clue.  As for bogus cannons in Morristown. Here is one by George Washington's headquarters? (I bet the house was built in 1952)  Notice the beatuful bronze paint job? Plus the barrel is not from the revolutionary war era it looks like a 6-pounder smoothbore, M1841.


I have been living a lie. I am just now waiting for the title for the George Washington bridge I bought and I am going to double the tolls and make them pay....

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2008, 02:18:26 PM »
Plus the barrel is not from the revolutionary war era it looks like a 6-pounder smoothbore, M1841.

Actually, I am not sure what it looks like.  There are too many courses for a M1841 6 pounder.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2008, 02:30:21 PM »
Rays, there used to be at least one or two real cannons inside the Morristown Museum.  Think it has a different name now but still should have an area devoted to the Rev War.  One of the cannons I recall was an unusual iron piece said to have been used at the Battle of Springfield NJ.

That museum also held the only Rev War period ammunition caisson I've ever seen, maybe it was only the chest but it was pretty interesting.  The caissons then were called Wurst Wagons.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2008, 06:23:03 PM »
     Rays,   thank you so much for posting those nice pics and telling us about finding the gun.  At least it has a really nice carriage.  One the other one it looks like the buyer got three reinforces for the price of two.  That's a good deal, isn't it?  Anyway, replicas or not, it's fun to discuss them and you've proven that you are a good sport, beyond any doubt!  If you want to get a few pics of a unique and very important historical piece, make a few calls to the parks dept. in Trenton and get the exact location of the "Swamp Angel".  It was Gen. Quincy Gilmore's terror weapon reserved for the citizens of Charleston, SC.  Fired only 36 times before it burst, it caused very little damage, but angered the citizenry beyond belief.  The last location we heard of was Cadwalader Park. 

Regards,

Mike and Tracy
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2008, 09:22:17 PM »
Don't be afraid to post non-Civil War stuff, reason being that the Civil War trophies, with maybe a few exceptions for undiscovered pieces, are fairly well documented in books like THE BIG GUNS, FIELD ARTILLERY OF THE CIVIL WAR, ARTILLERY AND AMMUNITION OF THE CIVIL WAR, etc.

No one has really made a dent in documenting the others, like Spanish-American War trophies, Rev War, etc.

Offline Max Caliber

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2008, 02:30:28 AM »
Here are the "Washington Guns" in Savannah Ga. They are located just South of the courthouse. They are mounted on Civil War period carriages with post CW wheels. The hardware looks original but the wood to metal fit on one is a puzzle, too much difference to be shrinkage.










Max

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2008, 03:04:03 AM »
Thanks for posting those.  Note they have displayed these guns under a roof which protects them from acid rain, so the bronze is dark but not corroded at all from what I can see.  Someone sure was smart to do that.  Too bad the US Army and Navy can't just put up a daggone tent or something as they are losing their pieces quite rapidly due to acid rain, as I have mentioned once or twice.

In last pic note the clear markings on the front of both cheekstraps, which will show the arsenal and date of manufacture.  Maybe someone will report what is marked there next time they go through Savannah.  If the guns and carriages had been out in the rain, I guarantee there would be little or nothing left of the carriage markings.   Original carriages are a whole lot more rare than original tubes, as everyone probably knows.

BTW, I don't think these guns have always been under roof, I think they were in the open when I saw them back around 1978, but I'll have to find my photos to make sure.  Those details don't stick with me too well, I was focused on the cannons, not what they were in or on.

Offline rays89

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2008, 02:16:02 PM »
I have read the history of the "Swamp Angel"  I did not know it was in Trenton.  I am starting to wonder if is a Paper Mache replica being pass off as the real deal. I am wondering "the Garden state" had anything to do with the Revolutionary war? I bet it all happened in Rhode Island. Seriously I do have to check out the swamp angel. 
   I know I might be wondering off subject a little. In my Stupid days IE: 4th of July 1987 I was at a friend's house playing with M-80s (I am wiser now and grateful I have all my limbs attached) The next door neighbor rolled out a Bronze authentic Civil war cannon (a Napolean?)  I will never forget the blast and concusion from that beast. It felt like I was playing with firecrackers. It made me wonder if that cannon is still in that garage because that is a hidden peice of gold indeed.
   

Offline dominick

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2008, 02:27:47 PM »
Valley Forge Park has several Rev War cannons.  Here's a few.






Offline cannonmn

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2008, 05:29:07 PM »
Thanks Dom, are all the pieces outside reproductions?

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2008, 07:26:29 AM »
Quote
Those of you in the mid-west can see a pristine example of the Model 1890 in the Rock Island Arsenal Museum.

 This thread has given me the urge to revisit the Rock Island Arsenal, it's about a three hour drive from my location, but it's well worth the time, it is a great place to spend the day. The National Register of Surviving Civil War Artillery, lists a total of 26 cannon at the arsenal, and they also have ordnance from the Spanish american War, ( the cannon that M&T mentioned, with the barrel and carriage being in absolutely mint condition) WWI and WWII. Thomas Jackson Rodman's grave and monument are on the grounds with two 10'' Confederate Columbiads cast at Belona Foundry in Virginia standing sentinel along with an M1861 15'' Rodman gun. Inside the museum one of the displays I found most interesting, consists of life size model horses with all the proper period tackle, attached to the limber with the gun carriage then attached to the limber, demonstrating how the guns were transported during the Civil War. They also have an incredible collection of firearms, both American and foreign, and the John M. Browning Memorial Museum.


Ray, this is a pic of the plaque that's attached to the masonry base that the "Swamp Angel" is mounted on in Cadwalader Park. I'm relatively sure that this is the real No. 6 Parrott 8-inch rifle that blew its breech on August 23rd 1863 while bombarding Charleston, but considering your recent luck there's always the outside chance that it's going to turn out to be a fiberglass replica.  ;)



Added 12/06/08: Like some other artillery plaques this one has a few errors; The first shell fired by the "Swamp Angel" was fired in the early AM on August 22nd, 1863, not August 12th, and the rifle actually weighed 16,577 pounds. This information was taken from "Gate of Hell, Campaign for Charleston Harbour, 1863, Stephen R. Wise, Columbia, S.C.: University of South Carolina Press, 1994.

This gun ended up in Trenton, because after the Civil War ended it was bought for scrap iron by the Phoenix Iron Works located in Williamstown, New Jersey (another source states it was Carr's Iron Works in Trenton N.J.), but (luckily) before it could be melted down someone identified it as being an important CW artifact and it was saved.

This site below has some fantastic engineering info (and drawings) on how the "marsh battery" was constucted, and check out [Maps & war photographs], then to [Maps & photos 2] figure 17 to view a period photo of the "Swamp Angel" resting on the sand bag parapet where it was thrown after literally being blown off its siege carriage.
http://www.lousweb.com/SA/swamp_angel.htm
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline and7barton

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2008, 02:45:59 AM »
I am surrounded by bogus artillery ugh. The Cannon is dated But due to the shadows I couldn't get a picture. But sure I can put a date on anything and say it is legit If I am able I can try to get up there and get better pictures. I will. There is a Bicentenial quarter covering the vent hole hmm a clue.  As for bogus cannons in Morristown. Here is one by George Washington's headquarters? (I bet the house was built in 1952)  Notice the beatuful bronze paint job? Plus the barrel is not from the revolutionary war era it looks like a 6-pounder smoothbore, M1841.


I have been living a lie. I am just now waiting for the title for the George Washington bridge I bought and I am going to double the tolls and make them pay....


There's a couple of things that don't ring "True" on that gun - The barrel looks so new that to MY mind it probably IS new. A couple of tiny gripes about the carriage (not that I'm moaning about it being a modern one, the carriages of course, came and went, and came and went; this is more about it being a good replica)....... The axletrees are much too narrow, and the actual axle seem to be strapped on underneath the axletree, rather than passing through it.
There should also be a steel box over the end of each axletree.
Founder in 1986 of Historical Artillery Corps, later changed to Historical Artillery UK.
Builder of Cannons and models for South-Western Artillery, Fort Amhurst, Coalhouse Fort and private commissions.
Technical Consultant for two episodes of Scrapheap Challenge. Ex Pyrotechnic Safety Officer at Coalhouse Fort. I go trekking and survivalist camping - build experimental tents and survival equipment - caving.

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2008, 07:39:42 AM »
And7barton,

 Yes, I think if a survey were taken on this board the general consensus would be that this gun and carriage are a modern re-creation loosely modelled after a British pattern cannon and double bracket carriage from the latter eighteenth century, that is meant to be taken for an American Revolutioary War cannon by the viewing public.
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline rays89

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2008, 10:21:37 AM »
I have 70 pictures of the gold painted cannon I am not going to post them all here but they can be found on this link if anybody cares to critque them. I took pictures of it an as many angles possible for a future project
http://flickr.com/photos/12103832@N06/sets/72157610818905152/

Here are a couple more barrels at the Civil war monument in Morristown. I should have taken more pictures of them. They are gone now. But some of the barrels had an X scratched on the muzzle (not pictured) any reason for that?


Offline Terry C.

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2008, 03:16:29 PM »
As promised in the "Miles Standish" thread, here once again is the 24-Pounder Iron Siege Gun, Model of 1845, located at the Confederate Veterans Memorial in downtown Waycross, GA. This photo, taken this afternoon, shows the gun and the monument in the same frame. None of my earlier photos did, they were either the gun or the monument, but never both.

You'll have to forgive the guywire running through the photo. It's from a 'temporary' utility pole placed there during the hotel renovations. This pole has already been disconnected from the power grid and should have been removed already. I tried moving to a position where the wire was not in the frame, but the glare from the low sun made the shot unusable.

(As usual, you can click on any of the images to open up a larger version.)




From the gunners point of view. The Fashion Shoppe and Andrew's Cafe & Grill across the street are "under the gun."




I've scoured this gun looking for more markings, but there simply aren't any. Just 1851 on one trunnion, T.F. (Tredegar) on the other, and S.C. (South Carolina) on top. No numbers, weight or registry. A possible explanation is that this is a prewar contract gun sold to South Carolina (cwartillery.org says that there were at least four such 1845s). All I have on the service history is an account of it once being used for river defense along the Altamaha at Doctortown (NE of Jesup) Georgia.

Here is Pam posing with the gun, my 'other woman.'


Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2008, 07:05:40 AM »
 
Quote
As for bogus cannons in Morristown. Here is one by George Washington's headquarters? (I bet the house was built in 1952)  Notice the beatuful bronze paint job? 

Rays89, when you were photographing this gun did you feel or tap on the barrel to try and ascertain if it was made out of metal?
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline dominick

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2008, 12:41:56 PM »
Thanks Dom, are all the pieces outside reproductions?

I'm not sure about all of them, but most are iron carriages.  Not sure of the barrels on the carriages but there are several original barrels laying loose throughout the park.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2008, 01:03:40 PM »
     
     Terry,   Thanks for posting those nice new views of the 24 pdr. siege gun.  We are looking forward to seeing that gun in person next year in Oct. or Nov. and we enjoyed reading about the wartime use of that tube also.  You used the phrase "under the gun".  I wonder if anyone besides Mike and myself think that this phrase means something other than "covered by the gun" or in immediate danger?
We think that "under the gun" means that you are out of immediate danger by being in a lower position than that covered by the gun at it's lowest, depressed, gun-tube position.  Any arguements or agreements with our meaning?

     Dominick,   After we left your shop this past October we headed over to Valley Forge ourselves.  What impressed us the most was the number of artillery pieces that were there and the persistence of the deer herd.  Either they wanted to bed down for the night right there in the Continental Army's Artillery Park or they thought we had food.  Where ever we went, they followed us!  You couldn't get a mule deer to do that if you had an electronic collar on it. 

Regards,

Tracy and Mike

Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline cannonmn

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2008, 01:38:56 PM »
Last time I was at Valley Forge was back in the 1980's.  At that time all of the bronze cannons outside on carriages were reproductions, but things could well have changed since then.  There were one or two real bronze tubes inside the visitor center as I recall, I think they were both Verbruggen 3-pounders.  I think one of them was bent quite a bit, almost like the letter "C"  like it had been over a fire or under a hundred tons of other tubes.  Or maybe that one was at Yorktown, I can't recall for sure.

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2008, 03:32:49 PM »
I always thought under the guns mean't you here with in range of the guns.

Offline Terry C.

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2008, 04:08:11 PM »
We think that "under the gun" means that you are out of immediate danger by being in a lower position than that covered by the gun at it's lowest, depressed, gun-tube position.  Any arguements or agreements with our meaning?

To be "under the gun" is to be in imminent danger, according to all the references I could find that would relate to artillery.

I've always understood "under the gun" to mean that you were within the field of fire and in range.

I've never heard it used in the way you describe.

But I could be wrong...

There is also a gambling definition, but that only applies to casino card games and is irrelevant here.

Offline rays89

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2008, 04:53:04 PM »
Boomj
   It is defintly  metal as to what type I do not know. I doubt if it is bronze because it is obviously painted

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Re: Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2010, 04:40:08 AM »
Spotted this gun today...


















Very difficult to photograph indoors siting in a bright sunny window.

The Part Rangers told me they have all the accessories and accouterments for this gun in their warehouse in ther original shipping containers. If some one want to view these items, they can make and advance arrange and they will be made available.

 Big Hole Battlefield