Cannons, Like Gold, Are where You Find them

[EL Caz 66]

Found this cannon at a Civil War Memorial on route 211 in Wallkill Township Orange County NY picures taken with my Blackberry cell phone.

[EL Caz 66]

Seacoast cannons picture taken with Blackberry cell phone on Governors Island New York City..

[seacoastartillery]

     El Caz,   Those pics are terrific and the Napoleon in Walkill, New York brings back memories.  I saw that gun and many others as I sold Ice Cream and Dairy products for Sealtest Foods after I left the Army in '72.  I covered a territory north of Rt. 17, west of Conn. and south of Catskill.  Thank you for sharing those, and Mike and I will get to Governor's Island one of these days.  Most of those are at Ft. Jay, I believe, 10" and 15" Rodmans.  We love to check out the iron carriages, there is such a wide variety of styles and details.

Tracy and Mike

[seacoastartillery]

     Although Mike and I found all three of these seacoast guns more than twenty years ago, we never have published any photos from Denver, Colorado's City Park where they can be found about 1/2 mile west of the Museum of Nature and Science.  This is my grandson's favorite park and he can tell you all about it each time we go there.  The pics tell the story about today's trip.  

Mike and Tracy


Mike teaches him about the founder and weight markings.  He already knows where the Naval anchor can be found on this 100 Pdr. Parrott Rifle, M1861.  We modeled our initial offering on this big seacoast rifle.




J. rides the big Parrott naval rifle and keeps asking if he can hit that distant apartment building.




Mike loves to tease J. and he asked about the circus cannon he saw in a movie, so Mike pretends to load him like a human cannonball; he was very disappointed that there was just too much trash in the muzzle to do it.




I explain to J. what the left trunnion markings, XI IN and 1862 mean and I let him look at the breech markings as welland answer all his questions about them too.




Here J. learns about sights and sighting and naval lock ears and vents.  I think he likes the 11" Dahlgren more that the Parrott!  Mike, the old salt, is pleased.




J. is fascinated with the 13", 1861 Seacoast Mortar.  I think he is impressed with the bore size.  He is a little sponge at this age and I'm sure he will tell his Mom all the grizzly details about 220 Lb. explosive shells, 2.5 mile ranges, crushing masonry arches, etc.




J. gets a practical life lesson in repelling aggressive geese too.  They dislike his shrill voice much more than our deeper tones.  I backed off and he kept them at bay with voice commands alone.

[Frank46]

In the movie "The Australian Light Horse they were doing a mounted charge on turkish positions and one officer watching said "thank God they're under the guns", I always though that it meant that the guns could not be depressed any further and that they were safe (relatively) from cannon fire. Frank

[EL Caz 66]

My pleasure Terry if you know of anymore located in this area let me know I'd be willing take more pictures.

Here are few Rodmans found on the west river Dr. NYC near Solider and Sailors Memorial. Taken a few back years back..

[seacoastartillery]

     You know, Frank, you are the only guy who sees that phrase having that particular meaning in certain situations, besides Mike and I.  Thank you for some confirmations that we are not completely alone on this subject.  We believe that the military use of this phrase and the civilian version are quite different.  The civilian meaning can come from a situation as simple as the one which is described as:  The sales manager has all of his salesmen 'under the gun' to sell more cars this month, which indicates a risky position for the salesmen rather than a safe one.  Personally, I believe the meaning changed over the ages to the meaning most people espouse today, that of being in danger if you are 'under the gun'.  After all, very few fighting forces find themselves physically "under the guns" as they attempt a "Coupe de Main" on the fortress defenders these days! 

     Thanks, El Cazador 66,    I will let you know if I can remember where any of them are. Never saw those Rodman guns before.  Most of my NYC prowlings have been on the Brooklyn Bridge side. 

Tracy and Mike

[p51]

In the movie "The Australian Light Horse they were doing a mounted charge on turkish positions and one officer watching said "thank God they're under the guns", I always though that it meant that the guns could not be depressed any further and that they were safe (relatively) from cannon fire. Frank

That’s one of my favorite movies (well, the last 40 minutes or so, anyway). That would be one of the last times you’d say that as a good thing, as machine guns by then easily covered any dead space that couldn’t be reached by indirect fire. Turks had no mortars at Beersheba. Even if they had, it would have been darned tough to use indirect fire against a target moving as fast as Bourchier’s units were going at that point.
Direct fire weapons like machine guns from the Turkish left flank were knocked out before really opening up by the Horse Artillery (actually, the 1st Nottinghamshire Battery, firing 13 pounders). That really messed up the defense as those machine guns had a good overwatch position to refuse the Australian advance. Their indirect fire was largely ineffective. As the Turks fully expected the 4th Brigade to dismount within rifle range, their own rifles never were properly ranged to shoot at the horsemen in close range. That’s why the few horsemen taken killed were taken out by stray indirect fires early in the advance and midway when the machine guns and rifles had the best ranging. The movie showed that to good effect as many rifles captured after the battle were found to be set at pretty long ranges, well beyond 1000 meters.

[seacoastartillery]

    You just can never tell what a particular cannon will look like until you find it, sometimes after quite a bit of searching.  We found lots of interesting artillery on our 2007 trip to the State of Maine and New England.  We had to search a bit to find the 100 Pdr. Parrott Rifle, Model 1861 shown in the photos below.  The only description we had was:  "Big cannon behind a building at Popham Beach, Maine".  From this blurb in a tourist guide to coastal Maine, we found that a granite fort with a substantial battery was built in the 1860s to protect the Bath, Maine shipyards and approaches to the Kennebec River is located at the mouth of the Kennebec River on Popham Beach in Phippsburg, Maine.

    Fort Popham was built in an unusual semi-circular shape, similar to Civil War bombarded and Hurricane ravaged, Ft. McRee which once lay opposite Ft. Pickens, both of which were built to protect the Navy Yard at Pensacola, Florida.  Mike and I explored every level and dark corner of this incomplete, but very interesting structure.  Chiseled blocks of granite were lying about and you could see how these intricate blocks of solid stone locked together.  Exposed brick masonry arches were jutting out from the casemate vaults, yet some of the most sophisticated Third System Fort features such as Totten Shutters made of heavy, plate-iron were installed in all of the embrasures. These snapped open as a cannon was run out to be fired and snapped shut after the recoil cycle was complete to protect the gunners from rifled musket balls and canister or grape shot that an enemy might fire at them.

    Any questions about this seacoast cannon or fort or any others in the state of Maine will be cheerfully answered.  Maine is very beautiful along the seacoast and the interior isn't too bad either as long as you like forests and moose on the loose!

Mike and Tracy

The gorge of Fort Popham.




Construction of Totten Shutters in view.




Can you see it?




Can you see it now?




Looking back toward Fort Popham.




Despite weathering, the well-struck markings are clear.




Details of the cascabel that you can see on our site as well, because we make this seacoast rifle in 1/6 scale.




The front sight socket on the right rimbase with registry number.




R.P.P.  Robert Parker Parrott,  superintendant of West Point Foundry in Cold Spring, NY.




The only place devoid of rust is the solid copper vent piece half way up the re-enforce.



    

[Soot]

What does SCL stand for?
[img width= height=]http://www.fototime.com/AFDDA1773AB7986/standard.jpg[/img]

[Max Caliber]

S C L stands for Stephen Carr Lyford, inspecting Ordnance Officer.

[Spuddy]

M&T Thanks for teaching me something about my State.  Do you have plans to come back in the future?

[seacoastartillery]

     Soot,    S.C.L. are the initials of the Union Army Ordnance Inspector who inspected this tube.  His name was Stephan Carr Lyford According to Olmstead, Stark and Tucker, the authors of The Big Guns, he inspected northern ordnance from 1863 to 1865.

     Interestingly enough, Robert Parrott's West Point Foundry cannon were not made at the United States Military Academy at West Point, New York at all.  They were made across the Hudson River in a sleepy little community named Cold Spring, NY.  Also, an even more obscure fact is that his Army version and Navy version of his seacoast gun design and others were identical in form, weight and features except for the placement of markings.  The Army guns like the one pictured had almost all markings on the muzzle face, whereas the Navy version had it's markings at the top rear of the re-enforce.  All of Parrott's  big seacoast rifles had gain twist rifling.  The twist of the 100 pounder gradually increased from zero twist to one turn in 18 feet at the muzzle.  Our recreations in 1/6 scale have gain twist rifling which goes from zero twist to one turn in 36" at the muzzle.  They are very accurate too, as were the originals.

Mike and Tracy

P.S.  Yes we do want to return to Maine, Spuddy.  We are planning a trip to New England and eastern Canada.  Must see that 300 Pdr, Parrott Rifle on the Barbette Tier of Fort Gorges in Casco Bay near Portland, Maine and that really nice 1838 bronze gun in Presque Isle and the Citadel guns in Halifax, Nova Scotia and others.  Probably not this year, but maybe the next, after all, checking out your cannon range soooooooo close to the Canadian border, is an absolute 'Must' on our list.

[Cannoneer]

I have the (probably bad) habit of looking at the photos in a post before I read the text, and at first I didn't realize that all the pictures were of the same gun, so when I first saw this picture of Mike standing next to this cannon, his body seemingly about even with the surface plane of the muzzle face, I thought 'whoa nellie' that's one huge bore. It took a second before I noticed the 6.4., and it dawned on me that it was the same 100-pdr parrott as shown in the photo that preceded it. I don't know if this picture was cropped, but it's a very deceptive photo; I'm guessing that Mike was actually standing at about the same spot as shown in the side view shot, and that Tracy just moved to the front of the piece for the next photo (or vice versa).

[seacoastartillery]

     Boom J.,   My instructions for taking that photo were issued by the old fashioned 'trick-photography guy', my business partner, Mike.  He set this shot up just about like you surmised.  He was a bit forward of the previous location, just in front of the front edge of the iron plate upper carriage.  With the muzzle close to the lens and him in back of the muzzle plane, the muzzle face looks huge which is exactly the effect he was looking for.  Below is another of his 'Trick Photos' and most of you can figure out this one too.

Tracy and Mike


Yet another of Mike's 'Trick Photography' gems.  No Photoshoping here!!  Strictly old-fashioned manual methods displayed here.

From our website:   Photos, Maryland, Ft. McHenry, 15" Rodman in Water Battery.

A bit of whimsy displayed here, but then again you can't be serious all the time. I suggested, "Why don't you stand right in front of that 15 incher, stare into the muzzle and put your fingers in your ears?'  All I got for this novel suggestion was a dirty look! Oh well......

[lance]

Been lurking......this is a great topic, and as i understand it, i thought i would share a pic from, let's just say i work in this area.

[lance]

If you can read that first picture, thought y'all might like this other picture:

[seacoastartillery]

     Thanks for posting those pics, Lance.  Looks like the campus of Virginia Tech.  So those who worked on restoring these two 3" Ordnance rifles were probably members of the Corps of Cadets formerly in Lane Hall, but displaced to Rasche Hall in the early 60s.  I read a while back that they may return to Lane if the Funds Drive stays on schedule.  Good looking artillery for a great school.

Tracy and Mike

[carronader]

Found this one this weekend   big surprise  went to see Architecture found the Cannon.   ok !  What's the cannon?

[Bob Smith]

Ely?
Bob Smith

[Double D]

British 24 PDR?

[Bob Smith]

My guess is Crimea gun, whatever!

[Max Caliber]

I think Bob is right, a Russian gun from the Crimea.

[seacoastartillery]

    Nice find, Carronader!  We have no idea, but like the lines.  It's really nice to have some international contributions occasionally.  


     We discovered some interesting information on that big Denver Dahlgren just yesterday.


                                           Sometimes History is Strange

What does the Denver Dahlgren, a Finger Lake in New York State and the CSS Hunley all have in common?

     Very rarely does someone interested in the history of artillery get to know the story of a particular gun’s service.  This XI” Dahlgren Shell Gun in Denver, Colorado’s City Park was produced by Cyrus Alger & Co. in Boston, Mass. In 1862.  It weighs 15,750 Lbs. and was inspected by William Rogers Taylor, a Union Naval Ordnance Inspector from 1857 to 1867.  This big shell gun was mounted onboard the brand new in ’62, Steam/Sail, Sloop-of-War, Canandaigua, at the Boston Navy Yard.  The Canandaigua was a well-armed gun boat, named after one of the Finger Lakes in New York State, with 2, 11” Dahlgrens, an 8” naval smooth-bore and 3, 20-Pdr. Parrott rifles.

     She arrived on station with the South Atlantic Blockading Squadron off Charleston, South Carolina in August of 1862.  Among other things, her crew captured the Rebel ship, Secesh, on May 15, 1863.

     However, bye far, the Canandaigua’s greatest claim to fame was definitely the fact that she rescued 150 out of 155 sailors from the Housatonic’s rigging after the Confederate submarine, CSS Hunley sunk her on February 17, 1864.

     Mike and I think it’s a sure bet that some of those soaked and shivering Housatonic survivors were pressed up against the Denver Dahlgren’s pivot carriage onboard the Canandaigua, to block some of that cold February wind on that fateful night 146 years ago.

     To give you some idea of just how big these  XI” Dahlren Shell Guns actually were, we have included a photo we snapped in 2007 of one next to a 32-Pdr, Navy gun of 57 cwt. that we found in an obscure, little park in Exeter, New Hampshire.  The Dahlgren is behind the 32-Pdr., so it should look a bit smaller, but you can easily tell that it’s massive and weighs almost 3 times as much as the 32.

Tracy and Mike


11" Dahlgren and a Navy 32 Pdr. in Gilman Park.   A UFO landed in nearby Exeter, NH in 1965.


 

[Ex 49'er]

11" Dahlgren and a Navy 32 Pdr. in Gilman Park.   A UFO landed in nearby Exeter, NH in 1965.


 

How big was the UFO compared to the cannonz?

[dan610324]

the two 15" in filipstad aint small either   

[seacoastartillery]

     Dan,    You are right; these cannon were not small, but they were the smallest of Dahlgren's 15 inchers.  These two purchased by Ericsson for Sweden, were designed by Dahlgren, himself and have bores which are 8.7 calibers long and the Long Dahlgren 15" Shell Guns had 9.7 calibers of bore length, an improvement designed by the Bureau of Ordnance.  So your short Dahlgren XV" Naval Shell Guns weighing 42,000 Lbs., weigh a full 1,000 Lbs, (454.5 Kilos) less than the long 15" Dahlgrens at 43,000 Lbs.

     However, you Swedes are way ahead of us Americans, because short or long you are fortunate to have any in your country.  We do not.  I believe there is only one other confirmed gun of this type in existence in Hong Kong, China. 

Tracy and Mike

[rays89]

Its a breach loader that I found decaying at a cemetary (the only real cannon I can find close by). It been a while since I posted pictures so hopefully I do it right. Just wondering what did I find. I see a date of 1917 from Bethelem PA
                         Ray

[RocklockI]

Small 15 incher's thats a good one !  

Tracy GET back down into the basement and remain productive . This is not an option . Not a threat or a promise .... just do it and all will be well .  

Sunday Smunday , get your      self down there and cut wood . Keep it up ! Mike says you have nearly outdone yourself , but that was two years ago   .    So no more nano's , flip dippers, (re)petards  

harpoon guns , moon rockets OR anything else we've been talking about ! There will be time for embarassing NASA , but first we must sell you damn cannons .  (least I lose my machine shop)

That means YOU have to MAKE the cannon . Tracy I am speaking in code (dem downlow mn)to U so eberybody on the bored can bot (see the b instead of an n ?)see it . Nobody bot me and U knead 2 no (see no ,instead of know)  about your recent longcomings ....

Gary

[dan610324]

yes they are so very very tiny , I was almost tempted to put them in my pockets before I left 
but I had my car keys in one pocket so I couldnt
the exact weight is  "ONLY"  41875 and 41790 lbs

do you really mean that there isnt any 15" left in usa today ?? thats a pity
ok that this 2 ended up here in sweden I can understand , but how could the other come to hong kong ??
the one in hk , is that  short or long barrel ??