Author Topic: Replacement barrel advice - please  (Read 1855 times)

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Offline TopperT

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Replacement barrel advice - please
« on: December 01, 2008, 02:43:56 AM »
I picked up a 50 cal. TC Hawkin with great brass and fairly nice wood but a basket case barrel for cheap $$.  This rifle had been left uncleaned......it was a mess when first viewed........This winter, I plan to refinish the stock, maybe darken it up a bit with a darker walnut stain and install a new barrel and generally have a nice rifle for a limited expenditure.
As my goal is to shoot round ball with this at "Club" shoots, I would like some opinions on twist and length for a Green Mountian 15/16" TC Hawkin replacement.  I figure on keeping with 50 cal. and perhaps a 1 in 60 (or better) twist,..... but length has me wondering about 28" or 32".  Thanks.

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Replacement barrel advice - please
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2008, 05:34:40 AM »
I believe the Green Mountain "drop-in" barrels in .50 caliber are 72" twist for roundballs and they are excellent shooters. With a GM barrel on that T/C you will be as well equipped as any for competition. As to the length, that is a matter of what fits you. if it feels too muzzle heavy with its present 28" barrel then the 32" will be even worse. On the other hand, if the 28" is no problem for you then the 32" will give you a slight advantage in sight radius and my "hang on target" a bit better. A general rule of thumb in offhand shooting is to use the heaviest rifle you can handle without muscle tremor. Bear in mind that as you work with it the weight will become easier to handle. Just do a lot of dry firing and the 32" will soon be no problem.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline captchee

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Re: Replacement barrel advice - please
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2008, 01:31:22 PM »
 i would agree with joe .
 but im not sure GM is making any drop in barre;s any more for TC rifles .
 BUT oregon barrels does  and IMO they are much better barrels anyway

Offline TopperT

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Re: Replacement barrel advice - please
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2008, 02:20:58 PM »
THANKS!!!!!  I'll check out Oregon Barrel's and act accordingly on your suggestions.  I like the idea of the longer sight radius as well......weight should not be a factor and 1-72 would seem to be perfect for patched round ball....again;  THANTS!!

Offline mspaci

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Re: Replacement barrel advice - please
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2008, 02:34:18 AM »
do they have a web site?  Mike

Offline longcaribiner

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Re: Replacement barrel advice - please
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2008, 04:26:33 AM »
I agree generally with Joe.  And I have shot an Italian Repro with a 34 inch barrel in competitions.  That sight radius is nice.  But sight radius isn't everything.  The sights are just as important.  A fine narrow front sight needs a rear sight that compliments it.  Also one that isn't too far to the rear or it gets blurry.  Everything I ever learned about competition shooting was thrown out the window when I met an old Virginia hill billy named "Woody"   He shot incredible offhand groups with a TC renegade stock and a fat stubby little 22 inch 38 caliber barrel he mounted on it.  His eyes had aged so bad that the rear sight was half way up the barrel.  Yet he routinely shot 1 inch groups at 50 yards.  I sort of figured that he was the exception that proved the rule.  One time he let me shoot his rifle.  It was a substantial chunk of steel.  And when I shouldered it, it had just the right heft to lay steadily across my extended left hand, but without all that front heavy balance that comes from a long barrel.  The sights were very fine.  The front sight was just slightly thicker than a cross hair.  and the rear notch was also pretty narrow.  My only shot out of it was a quarter inch from  dead center of the "x"   It had a fast twist and he used only around 10 grains of powder.   

His gun was pretty much the opposite of what all the old time wisdom held, yet again it was for a very specific type of shooting, just offhand paper punching.   

If your barrel will be for general work, fine,  if you are intending it for target shooting, then you want to pay some additional attention to not just twist, but also the depth and shape of the rifling.  narrow lands and wide concave grooves, etc.    Harry Pope's rifles had lands that were about 1/8 the width of the grooves.  For a muzzleloader, I'd suggest about 1/4 the width of the grooves, and round bottom rifling.   Almost any muzzleloader gun smith can mount a TC breech plug to a proper width barrel and attach an underrib.  If you are really serious about shooting competition, the difference between a run of the mill barrel and a specialized barrel will be worth it.  If it is for flint shooting, the shape of the TC breech plug may not be the best choice for fast ignition.  Now understand that fast is relative.  In a non-patent breech plug set up, the bore extends all the way back to the face of the breech plug.  If the touch hole is just along the bore, when the gun goes off, the main charge is ignited because it lays immediately next to the touch hole.  In a patent breech system, like TC's, the tough hole is in the breech plug.  The powder in the 1/4 inch touch hole channel burns back into the hollow of the patent breech plug , which is about a half inch deep and 3/8 inch in diameter, and then it burns up to theface of the breech plug where it meets the main charge.     Over all the difference is pretty slight, but that difference can permit ever so slight movement of the gun.  Even if it makes only a point difference in 5 or ten shots, that can be enough to make a huge difference between top dog and "also ran."   

Offline captchee

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Re: Replacement barrel advice - please
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2008, 12:44:47 PM »
do they have a web site?  Mike
sorry
 ya here you go
look under drop - in-  rifle
http://www.thegunworks.com/custprodgun.cfm?SubCat1ID=9&Cat1Name=Barrels

Offline catman

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Re: Replacement barrel advice - please
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2008, 05:01:50 AM »
I just pick up a .50 cal 1:66 TC Round Ball drop in barrel from TC for my Renegade, fit and finish was perfect delivered to my door for $214.00 (be sure NOT to get the QLA). I looked at GM barrels and heard they were having some problems with the hilo(mispell)coils being bad. This was posted in another thread above, looks like GM are having some quality control problems:

Semisane

     Heads Up On Green Mountain Barrel Problem
« on: Yesterday at 12:06:23 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey guys.  I saw a post in the Percussion Rifles section of The Muzzleloading Forum by a guy who bought a GM .54, 1"x32, 1:70 replacement barrel for his Renegade from the Log Cabin Shop, Lodi, OH.  During cleanup following his first range session he discovered the nipple was M6X75 thread, and the breech plug was threaded for the standard TC 1/4 X 28 nipple.

I just got finished checking the .54 GM barrel I bought last month from Track Of The Wolf, AND FOUND THE SAME THING.   The nipple starts to wobble in the threads after the first 1/4 turn out.  Not a good thing.  I just finished sending a notice to TOW and GM.
 
 
 
odds are with the prepared.....

Offline sabotloader

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Re: Replacement barrel advice - please
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2008, 04:41:43 AM »
TopperT

Do not know why Capt thought GM was not making TC replacement barrels any longer-- they have a bunch... this is just the 15/16 in drop in...

http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/catalog.aspx?catid=1516-interchangeablebarrels


One thing i would suggest is to call them and ask - they have un-advertised specials and sell-outs all the time... often you can really get a good buy from them,

Another good location is Track of the Wolf...

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(hd353a45k4315yyv2owmjv55))/index.aspx

Keep shooting muzzleloaders - they are a blast....

Offline captchee

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Re: Replacement barrel advice - please
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2008, 02:30:28 PM »
TopperT

Do not know why Capt thought GM was not making TC replacement barrels any longer-- they have a bunch... this is just the 15/16 in drop in...

http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/catalog.aspx?catid=1516-interchangeablebarrels


One thing i would suggest is to call them and ask - they have un-advertised specials and sell-outs all the time... often you can really get a good buy from them,

Another good location is Track of the Wolf...

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(hd353a45k4315yyv2owmjv55))/index.aspx



well becouse not to long ago they said that they were going to stop making replacment barrels for TC , what they had on hand , was what they had . in fact there was some  discussion as to if they would continue to make any traditional barrels at all beings they were  prodominatly making barrels for Knight .???
if they once again have them then they have started making them again  becouse i know that  not long ago there was a scurry of activity to get barrels before the ran out
so ya i would call them and see .
 myself , i dont use them OHHHHH no

as to  bad threads , ya  this has happened once before with their Lyman barrels  which they  tried to pass of  with HeLi coils . then before that they stoped breeching their barrels becouse  folks like me who purchased barrels for custom guns were taking the breech plugs out  to check them . in doing so finding they were many times not properly faced .

Offline Forestclimber

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Re: Replacement barrel advice - please
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2008, 04:25:52 PM »
Look on trackofthewolf.com for a  GM drop-in barrelbarrel.  While you are there, get one of their replacement triggers.  I think Davis makes them.  There is a BIG difference from the T/C trigger. Swap out the brass ramrod thimbles.  Sell the old barrel, and trigger on Ebay.  You will have a nice outfit.

Offline 7-30 Waters

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Re: Replacement barrel advice - please
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2008, 01:11:23 PM »
I picked up a 50 cal. TC Hawkin with great brass and fairly nice wood but a basket case barrel for cheap $$.  This rifle had been left uncleaned......it was a mess when first viewed........This winter, I plan to refinish the stock, maybe darken it up a bit with a darker walnut stain and install a new barrel and generally have a nice rifle for a limited expenditure.
As my goal is to shoot round ball with this at "Club" shoots, I would like some opinions on twist and length for a Green Mountian 15/16" TC Hawkin replacement.  I figure on keeping with 50 cal. and perhaps a 1 in 60 (or better) twist,..... but length has me wondering about 28" or 32".  Thanks.

Green Mountain barrels are excellent barrels and can be purchased from Midway USA or directly from Green Mountian barrel company.  Green Mountain barrel company is owned by Knight Rifle Company.  Sadly, Midway always seems to have them on back order.  Seems easier to pick up a drop in barrel during the spring to mid-summer.

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Replacement barrel advice - please
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2008, 04:37:25 AM »
I noticed on the GM site that the only 15/16" drop-ins listed as available were the .40 caliber 38" and the .54 smoothbore 32", all others are listed as "see your local dealer". That tells me they have indeed dropped the drop-ins and are only selling off remaining inventory.
  But do not fear, it is very simple to fit up and install a barrel blank on any muzzleloading rifle. It ain't rocket science and can be done with basic hand tools. I've rebarreled quite a few muzzleloaders and it takes no more than a short day's work. Browning the metal takes some time but it's only a few minutes a day of actual work, the rest is just waiting. Working from a basic barrel blank offers many more possibilities than the drop-ins offer, any caliber and any length you prefer, sights of your own choosing, finish in blue, brown or "patina" and you may even save a few bucks. I never bought a drop-in and I never would do so.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline ricktile66

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Re: Replacement barrel advice - please
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2009, 02:36:32 AM »
I love my Green Mountain drop in barrel.  Shoots significantly better than the TC barrel that came with the gun.  Dixie gun works also carries them and had them in stock when I ordered mine.

Offline B.L.E.

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Re: Replacement barrel advice - please
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2009, 04:38:41 PM »
If you are only going to use it for club matches, you might consider making that replacement barrel smaller than .50, unless you really need a .50 for knocking down metallic silhouettes.
A lot of the dedicated paper shooters I know swear by .40 caliber barrels.  I have won quite a few matches with a ridiculously pleasant and cheap to shoot .36 GM barrel in my TC Hawkin.  Shoots quite well with Hornady 000 buckshot (.350) which for some reason costs a lot less than .350 RB sold for ML use.