black powder state shipping guidelines???

[hawken_cougar]

just wondering if anyone knows the state law for washington state...can a blackpowder firearm be shipped directly to a person in wa, or is there a requirement for using ffl?  not sure on all the rules just would like some help if anyone know a good resource to use...thanks....hc

[Semisane]

The term "blackpowder firearm" is too general.  Under Federal regulations ther are no restrictions on shipping a "muzzle loader", but a blackpowder cartridge rifle would have to be shipped to a FFL holder.  Don't know what WA state laws are.

[hawken_cougar]

to clarify "black powder" im talking about a caplock black powder hawken rifle...not a 209 primer inline...thanks for any help...hc

[quickdtoo]

I just talked to a local dealer, Washington state as of about a month ago now requires a background check to be done for muzzleloader sales. 

Tim

[hawken_cougar]

thanks tim...
ive talked to  a few different people and have had different answers regarding this for washington state...but if its changed recently im assuming not everyone is up to speed...thanks again tim....hc

[Semisane]

I just talked to a local dealer, Washington state as of about a month ago now requires a background check to be done for muzzleloader sales. 

Tim

That's a damn shame Quickdtoo.  That's what comes from being too close to Kalifornia.

[captchee]

 i did some checking on this change for washington ? i cant find anyone that knows about it . or for that mater seen it in the papers . there is a big BP gun show  coming up here in a couple months so i contacted  the folks putting on the show . their reply was that  this isnt the case as far as they know . even the librial rags who would be running such a change into the ground have said nothing .

 could you please post the  bill# as well as  date that it was passed , we would like to look into this

[quickdtoo]

I never found anything official on it either, but the fella at the gun counter at Joe's Sporting Goods is the one the I asked locally cuz they were open. I just called my dealer in Battleground who is closed Sun-Tues, been doing business with them for 20yrs or so, says it only applies to inline bolt action type guns, not traditional guns. I also called Cabelas to clarify their requirement for their note that WA muzzleloader sales must be placed thru their catalog gun dept, I was told that all of their muzzleloaders must be shipped to an FFL for Washington sales.  I was hoping they meant DC, but he emphatically stated WA state.  So I'm just as perplexed as the next guy. 

Tim

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0006567210042a&type=product&cmCat=cchart_trd_blk_pwdr_rfl

Item notes

ALL gun orders placed from or shipped to Illinois, Michigan or Washington, MUST be placed through the Catalog Gun Department by calling 1-800-237-4444 ext 132; available Monday-Friday 7am-8pm and Saturday 8am-5pm (Central Time).

[quickdtoo]

I just got off the phone with Don at Sportsman's Warehouse here in Vancouver, he said about 8 months ago the state changed the regs for BP revolvers, they don't do a 4473, but they do call NICS.  That could be what the salesman at Joe's meant, I didn't ask him if they do a 4473, just a background check.

There's some confusion in the ranks! 

Tim

[quickdtoo]

I stopped at the local BiMart to see what they do, nothing special for muzzleloader sales, business as usual just like any other over the counter product. 

Tim

[captchee]

well  i ask a couple of the fellas over there  to look into this through the TMA . currently  this isnt the case and only something that stores can opt to do , not a requirment .
 But we are checking with olympia to make double sure . BP revolvers  cam about becouse many of them now acept  interchangable  cylinders for cartradges

[45-70.gov]

just wondering if anyone knows the state law for washington state...can a blackpowder firearm be shipped directly to a person in wa, or is there a requirement for using ffl?  not sure on all the rules just would like some help if anyone know a good resource to use...thanks....hc

has  Mr. Couger  broken  any laws  if  it  is legal  in  his state?
can  you break  a state  law  if  you are  not  even  in  that state?
or  has the law  only been broken  by the one who receives  it?

[captchee]

 well from what im being told , you dont need an FFL to ship or recieve a muzzleloader in washington .
 i know i have not in the past when sending them there and it doesnt seem to be the case now .
that being said , this is what i have been told  so far

Quote:
I just got a message from a person who should know. His reply was as of now it is something Cabellas may start requiring. He is checking with Olympia. 


This first happened in WA State months ago when Cabella's put their new store in Lacy, WA
For several months now it has been my understanding that Cabella's is the one pushing this for catalog sales, and not Washington State....
All of Cabella's catalogs have now added Washington to the states they will not ship Muzzleloaders to.

I called Tri-State Outfitters when I first heard this, and they had absolutely no knowledge of what I was talking about.
About two months ago I called Sportsmans Warehouse, in Spokane, and they knew nothing of it....none of the local stores here in town know anything about it being a law, at least when I was asking.

It is hard to believe that something this big can totally sneak by the public without knowledge by someone, or other stores not knowing anything about it.

[hawken_cougar]

basically what i undertand is that a person in wa can buy without the forms but for me to ship from out of state i can not ship to his door anymore. it must be through ffl...i did just that as the buyer gave me the ffl info, i got the fax and shipped. kind of sad...it was much more convenient and cheaper without the middleman...who knows what will be next...thanks for looking into this...even the people at the ffl were not all on the same page...

[captchee]

so far we are not finding that anything has changed besides cabelas  own policy  which folks seem to be taking as  state law ?
 still looking

[quickdtoo]

Well, that's not true, I've talked to 2 dealers that are doing background checks for muzzleloader sales, so it may not be so cut and dryed for FFLs.  Could be just CYA tho, just to be safe and protect their license. I do believe that it doesn't apply to non-licensees tho, I think a non-licensee can ship a muzzleloader to a Washington resident from out of state.

Tim

[captchee]

 maybe quickdtoo .  at this point it doesn’t look as if Washington has made any changes  and this is just like you said . a mater of CYA
 but we are checking into it  should know something  that can be factually  supported  through the state , this next week .
i do know that Washington did some strange laws concerning owning Black powder  in the last  year or two . but so far we dont fine anything on the weapons .
as far as shipping . i ship  muzzleloading rifles and pistols to Washington 3 -4 times a year , have had no problems .
 the only time i have an issue is shipping to NY . UPS has a list  of states  that require FFL 's on all classes of firearms  and at least here are very strict as to  sending to those states  to someone without an FFL .
 just another attempt  IMO for the feds to record and track our firearms ..
As with any information on the net however . Its always best to  call the state direct. Talk to law enforcement at state level if its state laws and federal level if federal laws are the issue  .
 In fact most times its best to talk to both anyway .
Same with BP . Call them and ask . They don’t bite . You may not like what your sometimes told but most times I find that  the laws are not what we have been lead to believe .
 Recently  3 of our clubs got together and made a  rather large  order for BP . I was concerned about transporting it in my pickup  across state lines and what permits I needed is any  so I called the ATF and  state police offices . ATF told me that there was not issue   with federal law but to call the individual states . . When I called the state police  for both Wyoming and Idaho ,  neither office  could think of any problem and sent me to their supervisors  who also couldn’t think of any issues but said they would get back to me .  That took about 4 days . When both got back to me they said they found no problem .
 They did recommend that  because I had way over the federal 50 lb limit that I keep a purchase receipt as well as a list of the clubs it was being delivered to ,. Just in case something happened and I was pulled over .
 That was out first purchase in that size . About 2 weeks after I had a federal marshal knock on the door  .
 Pretty nice fella , had no problems . I had heard all these roomers about   copies of DL # and signatures and proving every last lb and such .
 So when he ask , I said I had this stack of papers . He didn’t even want to look at those . Only ask the clubs the powder went to .
 We had coffee  chatted about  guns  for an hour and he left .
 To many times these things we here or  that gun shops  require  is based on nothing but roomer  not on actual fact . . Then pretty soon  many are doing it but don’t know why . If you ask they say ; well such and such told me .  If you ask such and such ,  you find that someone else told them .
 Its best to go right to the horses mouth . Take names numbers and record them down .

[forest2]

We've had the same thing here in Minn for years. I can ship in-state just about anything. It's when I ship out state I have to jump hoops,, not for state regs or ffl for BP guns, but for the shippers! USPS or UPS or FED-EX or etc,,
 So I Keep It Simple (S). I'm not shipping a "Firearm"! it's an antique replica, or machine parts, or an antique. I don't know what the in-line guy's do or how dealers with in-lines do it. Gosh private parties should deal with private sales right?
 K.I S.S. Be aware,, think first. verify your buyer, verify your seller, proir to the transation, safe, smart and simple.
 I don't think "terrorists" are going to arm themselves with mutilple cylinders for  colt peace makers or even "pattersons" heaven forbid. Are there aholes out there that could? Sure. Could they wreck things for us? Sure.
 But I'm still carefull when I walk across the street to pick up my mail everyday too,,

[nw_hunter]

Well, that's not true, I've talked to 2 dealers that are doing background checks for muzzleloader sales, so it may not be so cut and dryed for FFLs.  Could be just CYA tho, just to be safe and protect their license. I do believe that it doesn't apply to non-licensees tho, I think a non-licensee can ship a muzzleloader to a Washington resident from out of state.

Tim

Confusion is the name of the game when you deal with Guvmint! State or Federal.
They pass so dam many laws that only a crooked Lawyer can read and perhaps understand, that we don't know if we are breaking them or not.

I thought Californicate, then Oregon was the most Liberal on the left coast, but I think you poor folks in Wa might have us Beavers bested on that score!