Author Topic: Standard 45-70, 44 Mag, 357, 30-30? (Read 1299 times)

kevinsmith5 · « **on:** December 02, 2008, 02:56:52 PM »

The BC has proved a bit much to tote on the long walks in the national forest that I prefer. More the length than the weight. So I'm looking to get a Handi in a shorter profile. Since Handi's seem to have their most reliable performance in rimmed cartridges I figure these are the best choice. So which one do you guys recommend? Whitetails around here in ENC are small enough that bullet mass is not a big issue. When I go mountain hunting the BC will still be the choice.

Spanky · « **Reply #1 on:** December 02, 2008, 03:05:57 PM »

Standard 45-70
Most versatile of the bunch and you won't even have to buy new ammo.

Spanky

mgunslinger · « **Reply #2 on:** December 02, 2008, 03:09:53 PM »

+1 for the 45-70. some of the new Lever ammo seems to be working well for the hunters here.

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #3 on:** December 02, 2008, 03:49:11 PM »

I cant argue with a .45-70 its one of my favoritz But I really like my .357s mag and max, the .44 is fast becoming a go to shooter also, I didn't care to much for the .30-30 but there wasn't anything wrong with it, so thier you go, Get one of each.

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #4 on:** December 02, 2008, 03:52:50 PM »

I've got all 4 of them and the 357 gets used most, then the 44. The other 2 have been shot, just not much yet. Badnews Bob has the right answer for ya! DP

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 02, 2008, 03:57:24 PM »

Did I mention I'm not a millionaire?

I was leaning 45-70 anyway, since I load for it, but alot of people seem to have taken a shine to the carbine loads lately and thought I'd get some thoughts from their fans.

Ranger J · « **Reply #6 on:** December 02, 2008, 05:21:49 PM »

45/70 is the only one that has not given me a moment of pain and difficulty. It is not picky about what load you shove into it and can be loaded from light to Oh my ...

RJ

funshooter2 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 02, 2008, 06:15:45 PM »

Can't really answer directly, as I don't have a handi yet, but have the wood stock .44mag on lay-a-way. I got that one because I (stupidly) sold my .44mag Marlin lever gun. Here in Ks, the .44mag will take anything I know of and the short barrel is great in the brush. I'd also like the .357mag due less recoil and also that is my field hand gun, but I haven't been able to locate one, yet. Just lost my job last week, so it may be a while before I get any more guns. New Pres may lock us down, anyway.
Any would work and I'd like 'em all.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #8 on:** December 03, 2008, 02:09:07 AM »

"Since Handi's seem to have their most reliable performance in rimmed cartridges"

??

Where do these false assumptions start? I know older rimmed cartrides and Handis seem to go together well, and they do, but rimless cartridges are fine as well. Myself and many others here have several of each style and like them all. There is one member here who ALWAYS speaks out against rimless cartridges in Handis but there are tens of thousands of Handi rifles chambered in rimless cartridges out there in the hands of happy shooters and hunters. When it is all over and done with, get the cartridge and caliber YOU want, after all, it's your gun. Best of luck....<><....

P.S. - I really enjoy my .45-70's but you cannot go wrong with a 30-30, or for that matter, any of the calibers you mentioned....<><....

petemi · « **Reply #9 on:** December 03, 2008, 02:31:36 AM »

I've got both rimmed and rimless Handis, and I have no issues with either. They all work well. I've had my .45-70 for about a year and a half, and it rapidly became my favorite rifle. It just always does what you ask. I bang flopped a spike buck with it and the Leverevolutions Saturday at 220 yards known distance on one of my fields. My .357 Handi is also superb for closer in work, and it matches my Blackhawk. If I had to give up one, I'd keep the .45-70. Pete

Tunaman · « **Reply #10 on:** December 03, 2008, 03:09:42 AM »

1+ for the 45-70. Mine shot great right out of the box and has never given me one bit of trouble. I don't think that you can go wrong with any of the ones that you have asked about but the 45-70 seems to be the best shooting caliber right out of the box for most of us. I have a couple of 45-70 chambered rifles but my handi seems to shoot the best, and tends to be shot the most.

jpshaw · « **Reply #11 on:** December 03, 2008, 03:13:48 AM »

I quess I'm the only one on the forum who would favor the .30/30.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #12 on:** December 03, 2008, 04:41:33 AM »

No JP, you are not. I would take the 30/30 hands down. The 30/30 shoots flat enough to be an honest 200 yard rifle and handi 30/30s are accurate enough to make such shots. The .357 and .44 both have accuracy issues and the handgun cartridges are 100 yard guns. The 45/70 is a nice round if you really need it and can handle it but it can't be loaded to 30/30 velocities without really nasty recoil. When loaded to reasonable recoil levels the 45/70 is also a 100 yard rifle. Last but not least, the 30/30 is by far the cheapest to shoot with either factory or handloads. The only downside is that once you own a handi 30/30 it is pretty hard to justify a new rifle.

funshooter2 · « **Reply #13 on:** December 03, 2008, 12:51:13 PM »

One nice thing about being single is I don't really have to justify a rifle, pistol, or other toy. Could be partly the reason I'm single too, though.

I'd like the Handi in .30-.30, myself. When I get back to steady work, I may have to order one. Personally, I'd rather get the whole gun than a barrel, except maybe a 20ga barrel. The main reason that I picked the .44mag is that I happen to have several boxes of .44's left from the Marlin. The only other choices at the time were a .223 and a .243. I'd have bought all of 'em if I'd had the $. I'd rather have 30-30 than either of them. Just me, though.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 03, 2008, 04:03:09 PM »

Well, now I'm still left to decide between 30-30 and 45-70. Have a 30-30 winchester mountie (not very accurate, haven't ever got it to shoot under 2" at 75 yards), so have 30-30 ammo on hand. Could get reloading equipment for 30-30 easy.

Will take issue with the comment that the 45-70 is a 100 yarder though, never can figure why folks say that. the 45-70 is the original long range cartridge, before it was made a long shot was 200 yards. I'm real sure I could drop a deer at 350 yards plus with my BC. (In fact on a clear still day I'd go 500.) If you read my first post you'll notice I intend to use the new gun for in close work walking in heavy brush, the BC will stay my long range gun of choice.

Default · « **Reply #15 on:** December 04, 2008, 01:24:38 AM »

I reload the H&R 45-70 for my little brother and we have gotten some good accuracey out of her .. I own the 357 mag and 44 mag , Accuracey is awesome out of the 357 with a helping of IMR 4227 and cheap to reload and shoot alot ....The 44 mag i havent gotten any range time with yet , But i owned a 44 Ruger deerfield for a lot of years and took several animals with it ... Last deer i took with the deerfield had a baseball sized exit @ 40 to 50 yards w/ factory 240 gr loads ... The 44 isnt a bad choice for reloading as it doesnt cost much more then the 357 .... My choice would be the 44 mag ,Then pair it up with a good Ruger Super Blackhawk ,Smithie or Taurus and enjoy

I wouldnt say the 45-70 is a bad bet , I just dont like cost of components for it ( mainly the powder it consumes).... so my choice has to be the 44 mag.

Hope this helps ,

Default

coyotejoe · « **Reply #16 on:** December 04, 2008, 04:22:22 AM »

Quote from: kevinsmith5 on December 03, 2008, 04:03:09 PM

Well, now I'm still left to decide between 30-30 and 45-70. Have a 30-30 winchester mountie (not very accurate, haven't ever got it to shoot under 2" at 75 yards), so have 30-30 ammo on hand. Could get reloading equipment for 30-30 easy.

Will take issue with the comment that the 45-70 is a 100 yarder though, never can figure why folks say that. the 45-70 is the original long range cartridge, before it was made a long shot was 200 yards. I'm real sure I could drop a deer at 350 yards plus with my BC. (In fact on a clear still day I'd go 500.) If you read my first post you'll notice I intend to use the new gun for in close work walking in heavy brush, the BC will stay my long range gun of choice.

The 45/70 built a reputation as a long range TARGET rifle, firing at exact known distances with sights exactly zeroed for that exact distance, it is by no means a long range hunting rifle. Well, perhaps if you have a lase rangefinder and a precisely calibrated tang sight and all the time in the world to use them, then yes, the 45/70 can be a long range rifle. But in hunting situations that seldom comes togather. If you're using a sight zeroed for one distance and expect to shoot to point of aim, about the best one can do with the 45/70 is to zero two inches high at 50, accept about two inches low at 100, six inches low at 125 and it's all downhill from there. The high velocity loads like the Hornady leverevolution can make it a 150 yard point of aim gun but that's about it. I have been a big fan of the 45/70, I've owned nine of them over the years and loaded some pretty hot but I'd never attempt a 350 yard shot on game with any of them.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 05, 2008, 12:21:54 AM »

Why does everyone keep talking about laser range finders as iff prior to their invention no one could accurately determine range for shots? The 45-70 made its reputation as a long range gun on buffalo, elk, and humans not paper (long before laser range finders).

coyotejoe · « **Reply #18 on:** December 05, 2008, 03:36:37 AM »

You were there were you? When I worked for the Federal Highway Administration we used to make a little game of guessing distances before they were measured. I never knew anyone who could consistently estimate 200 yards within plus or minus 10% and those guys practiced all day every day. The 45/70 standard loads will drop 15" between 200 and 225 yards so that plus or minus 10% is enough to cause a clean miss and even 5% is enough to cause a poor hit. Don't believe everything you read about buffalo hunters, it was written by the same people who wrote the wild tales about Kit Carson and Billy the Kid. The 30/30 is not what anyone would call a flat shooting round but it sure seems that way compared to any black powder round. Introduction of the 30/30 and 30/40 made all of those old buffalo cartridges obsolete over night, and the velocity has been improved considerably since then.

petemi · « **Reply #19 on:** December 05, 2008, 06:58:38 AM »

Joe, you just have to shoot the .45-70 at all distances to learn it. Working with a BDC or Mil-Dot scope helps, but isn't necessary. It's like a long range extention of shooting a long bow. You learn to aim instinctively. You don't measure yardage, you just raise the rifle and hold over what's needed and shoot.

My .45-70 is sighted in for 100 yards. I randomly place water filled jugs from 25 yards to the 300 yard berm and practice shooting them all without adjusting sights.

If the .45-70 was made "obsolete overnight", why is it one of the most popular calibers today.....well over a hundred years later???

Pete

BBF · « **Reply #20 on:** December 05, 2008, 11:50:55 AM »

For what you want I would go 30-30 then 44 Mag
As far as cost is concerned, I don't think you can find much cheaper then new 30 30-brass. less the 30 gr of some powders for a 150 gr top load.

I do have a Ruger Carbine in 44 Rem and a Handi in 45-70 but would add the
30-30 in a Handi if I had the room.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #21 on:** December 05, 2008, 12:10:31 PM »

I agree with the majority and suggest the 45-70 first and the 30-30 second.

I have many many handis, (Think I just broke 30) the only ones that have given problems where the rimless calibers. I wound go so far as to say I wont buy another rimless handi. But he only calibers I still want are rimless. I prefer rimmed calibers, they just seem less problemattic, but as a rule the rimless calibers are of lower pressures to. My 500 is giving accuracy problems. Its rimmed, but also hi pressure, so maybe the pressure has more to do with it then anything?

CW

Troyboy · « **Reply #22 on:** December 05, 2008, 01:20:15 PM »

In ENC my choice would be a 12g with a slug in fact all of nc that would be my choice. Next would be a 20 or maybye the 20 would be first. HMMMMMM Either is adequate for the dog sized deer here

Tallwalker · « **Reply #23 on:** December 05, 2008, 03:08:22 PM »

If the OP is looking for something for close in work, and easier to carry around I would choose between the 30-30, and the 45-70 though I have hunted some this year with a .44 Mag carbine. It would be interesting to know which one of those calibers is lighter in the standard Handi. Anyone have both in that version they can weigh? My guess is that the 45-70 is actually lighter.

OBXPilgrim · « **Reply #24 on:** December 05, 2008, 04:30:04 PM »

Personally, I would go 45-70, 357, 30-30, then 44 Mag.

You were asking what order to get them in weren't you?

With my luck though, only one of the 4 would be usable and the others will need to go back for repairs.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #25 on:** December 05, 2008, 05:05:32 PM »

Quote from: Tallwalker on December 05, 2008, 03:08:22 PM

It would be interesting to know which one of those calibers is lighter in the standard Handi. Anyone have both in that version they can weigh? My guess is that the 45-70 is actually lighter.

Not really, the 45-70 has a much bigger barrel at the muzzle, all of the big bores do, so it's likely about the same or a tad heavier, maybe not enough difference that you'd be able to tell the difference. My 45-70 Handis are .790" and .810" at the muzzle, my 30-30s are .640" and .660", I don't care to remove the scopes to weigh them for comparison tho.

Tim

zoner · « **Reply #26 on:** December 06, 2008, 02:23:30 AM »

first i have no experience with the 45/70 so can't speak for it...when i was growing up in Pa a lot of guys hunted with 30-30 rifles, most of them top ejection m94 winchesters...open buckhorn sights...20" barrel...170 gr FN factory ammo....i had and shot the same gun in 32 special(very similar ballistics)...when you hit a deer in a good spot these cartridges killed very well...but in my case there wasn't alot of money for practice...ammo was for hunting....but without much practice these guns can be hard to shoot well(accurately) due to sight radius,hard to index open sights etc. I have a 30-30 barrel coming and i anticipate a whole different ball game...the gun i plan to fit it to has a nice 3# trigger(my m94 didn't)...i will be able to properly mount a scope on the handi(not easy with top ejection carbines)...i am not stuck with 170 gr FN bullets cuz i don't have a tubular magazine...actually i plan on trying 125-130 gr pointed bullets in mine( to see if i can get a good velocity/trajectory combination) with all this and the fact that the handi will carry as easily as the carbine due to oal....like i said i don't know about the 45/70 but the 30-30 handi with a good load and 1.5-4 power scope should be excellent on close shots at the low magnification and make those 200 yds with ease also. i will NEVER sell or get rid of my m94(my grandpa gave it to me when i was 12, killed a 5 point buck with it the very first time i fired it, my most prized possession...but it just isn't as easy to hit with as a handi 30-30),i vote for the 30-30 handi...and if i don't get this posted before my old lady sees that most prized possession stuff i probly won't be voting for anything ever again..see ya

jpshaw · « **Reply #27 on:** December 06, 2008, 04:08:15 AM »

Quote from: Tallwalker on December 05, 2008, 03:08:22 PM

If the OP is looking for something for close in work, and easier to carry around I would choose between the 30-30, and the 45-70 though I have hunted some this year with a .44 Mag carbine. It would be interesting to know which one of those calibers is lighter in the standard Handi. Anyone have both in that version they can weigh? My guess is that the 45-70 is actually lighter.

I wish someone would weigh their barrels and post them on the FAQ. My very accurate postal scale only goes to 3 Lbs (48 oz) so I can only weigh some shotgun barrels. My 12 gauge 28" modified (27.5" actual) weighs 37.8 oz with the screw included. .30/30 barrel, 357 and .44 overbore all weigh in excess of 48 oz so I can't weigh them. If this were done we could all know what our rifle or shotgun would weight with any barrel since we could weigh our frame, stock and forearm ourself.

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #28 on:** December 06, 2008, 04:15:37 AM »

They are so lite I have never wrried how heavy one is, a few ounces makes no diffrence to me. FWTW.

BBF · « **Reply #29 on:** December 06, 2008, 04:47:15 PM »

with a "slippery" 150 gr.bullet you can still get over 1200 ftlb at 200 yards with a max load from a 30-30.