Author Topic: Any news with the Dec 1st deadline for Obama/SCOTUS?  (Read 974 times)

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Offline gstewart44

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Any news with the Dec 1st deadline for Obama/SCOTUS?
« on: December 03, 2008, 04:15:42 AM »
Has any one heard anything new in the media about the lawsuit challenging Obama's birth certificate?
I'm just tryin' to keep everything in balance, Woodrow. You do more work than you got to, so it's my obligation to do less. (Gus McCrae)

Offline skifastchad

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Re: Any news with the Dec 1st deadline for Obama/SCOTUS?
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2008, 04:31:45 AM »
The case goes to conference Friday Dec 5th.  It needs votes from 4 of the 9 justices to go further.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Any news with the Dec 1st deadline for Obama/SCOTUS?
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2008, 05:58:11 AM »
I hope it does as it will show our system is working inspite of people trying to CHANGE the meaning of the law to suit themselves !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline gstewart44

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Re: Any news with the Dec 1st deadline for Obama/SCOTUS?
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2008, 10:13:07 AM »
Just found this link for an update ....evidently Obama and DNC did not respond by 12/1 deadline......is it stupidity or cahones to ignore a Supreme Court Justice?
http://citizenwells.wordpress.com/2008/12/02/philip-j-berg-lawsuit-us-supreme-court-update-december-2-2008-emergency-injunction-writ-of-certiorari-deadline-obama-and-dnc-have-not-responded/
I'm just tryin' to keep everything in balance, Woodrow. You do more work than you got to, so it's my obligation to do less. (Gus McCrae)

Offline lakota

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Re: Any news with the Dec 1st deadline for Obama/SCOTUS?
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2008, 10:18:48 AM »
Under an Obama administration there will be only one branch of government-executive. All other branches will be null and void. He is simply ignoring the soon to be defunct judicial branch.
Hi NSA! Can you see how many fingers I am holding up?

Offline bilmac

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Re: Any news with the Dec 1st deadline for Obama/SCOTUS?
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2008, 12:33:17 PM »
Liberals make up their own law as they go along.

Offline clodbuster

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Re: Any news with the Dec 1st deadline for Obama/SCOTUS?
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2008, 12:39:28 PM »
Liberals don't make up laws to suit,  they just "reinterprit" the ones we have.  This is really true in the judicial branch.  Liberal judges scare me more than the goofs in the congress. 
Preserve the Loess Hills!!!

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Any news with the Dec 1st deadline for Obama/SCOTUS?
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2008, 12:41:03 PM »
Will the Dems have a big enough majority to impeach any justice they do not like?
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: Any news with the Dec 1st deadline for Obama/SCOTUS?
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2008, 01:09:23 PM »
Below is a response to the recent comments I received from you:


Dear Mr.  45-70.gov     [edited]

Thank you for contacting me regarding President-Elect Obama's citizenship. I appreciate hearing from you and would like to respond to your concerns.

Like you, I believe that our federal government has the responsibility to make certain that the Constitution of the United States is not compromised. We must fight to uphold our Constitution through our courts and political processes.

Article II of the Constitution provides that "no Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President." The Constitution, however, does not specify how that qualification for office is to be enforced. As you may know, a voter recently raised this issue before a federal court in Pennsylvania. On October 24, 2008, the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania released an order in the case of Berg v.Obama.In that case, the plaintiff, Phillip Berg, raised the same issue that your letter raises regarding proof of the President-Elect's birthplace. Through his lawsuit, Mr. Berg sought to compel President-Elect Obama to produce a certified copy of his birth certificate.

The District Court dismissed Mr. Berg's suit and held that the question of Obama's citizenship is not a matter for a court to decide. The court further noted that voters, not courts, should decide whether a particular presidential candidate is qualified to hold office.

Presidential candidates are vetted by voters at least twice - first in the primary elections and again in the general election. President-Elect Obama won the Democratic Party's nomination after one of the most fiercely contested presidential primaries in American history. And, he has now been duly elected by the majority of voters in the United States. Throughout both the primary and general election, concerns about Mr. Obama's birthplace were raised. The voters have made clear their view that Mr. Obama meets the qualifications to hold the office of President.

After he is sworn into office, Mr. Obama will be our nation's President and I intend to bestow upon him the honor and respect due any man who holds that Office. Yet, I am certain that there will be times when I will disagree and oppose President Obama's policies. When that happens, you can be assured that I will pursue vigorously what I believe to be in the best interest of Florida and the nation.

I thank you for sharing your views with me and will keep your concerns in mind. If you have additional questions or comments, please contact me. For more information about issues and activities important to Florida, please sign up for my weekly newsletter at http://martinez.senate.gov.

Sincerely,

Mel Martinez
United States Senator


**Note: PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS E-MAIL. If you would like to reply to this message, please contact me through my website at http://martinez.senate.gov.

===================================================================================

above is a letter  i  received  from  my REPUBLICAN  senator
he  apairently  doesn't care
GEORGE  BUSH  also  lost the election  too  if  you  just  count  the voters  and  ignore the constitution [electoral college]

HE  IS  NOT  SEEKING  RE-ELECTION
kinda  makes  me wonder  why  he  is  standing  down
he  did not vote for the bail out

a  friend  also   got the  EXACT e-mail   but  had  his name  on  it not  mine
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: Any news with the Dec 1st deadline for Obama/SCOTUS?
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2008, 01:24:02 PM »
i  also found this  of  interest
===============================================


 

Dear Newsmax Reader:

Please find below a special message from our respected friend, Michael Reagan. He has some important information to share with you. Thank you.

Newsmax.com
 

 

   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Team Obama:"All I can tell you is that it is just pure garbage."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  According to the WorldNetDaily headline above, that was the retort of an Obama campaign spokesperson when asked about complaints requesting that Senator Obama produce a valid Birth Certificate to prove that he is constitutionally eligible to be President of the United States.

   Article 2, Section 1, of the Constitution of the United States, states, "No person except a natural born citizen of the United States, at the time of adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President."

   The Constitution of the United States is NOT "garbage" and furthermore, securing the rights of the people under the Constitution is NOT "garbage"!

   The Obama campaign's response is an elitist, condescending slap in the face to patriotic Americans. No one is above the law and Team Obama cannot make the question of Obama's eligibility go away by disrespecting the American people - and, by inference, the Constitution of the United States.

   That's why we just filed an action that Senator Obama will not be able to ignore... an action that WILL NOT GO AWAY!

   In fact, in my humble opinion... we will ONLY "LOSE" if we do NOT have the resources we need to carry on for as long as it takes, and we will "win" as long as we can carry on this fight (more on that later).

   SO PLEASE KEEP READING... I promise that when you're done, you will agree that we have filed the mother of all actions.


The United States Justice Foundation (USJF) is a nonprofit public interest, legal action organization and has been your conservative voice in the courts since 1979. And since USJF is a 501(c)3 nonprofit, your generous assistance is also TAX DEDUCTIBLE!

You can use this link or the hyperlink below to help - it's TAX DEDUCTIBLE. Is it worth a TAX DEDUCTIBLE effort of $5000 or $2500 or even $100 or $50 or $25 to defend the Constitution and the integrity of our electoral process?

The Obama campaign has a crack team of high-priced law firms - that's not three lawyers but THREE LAW FIRMS - that will use every means that money can buy to fight this action. We're relying on you and patriotic Americans like you.

https://secure.conservativedonations.com/usjf_house/?a=1926

Please use the hyperlink above to make your best TAX-DEDUCTIBLE effort to be a part of this battle. 



Why The "Berg Case" Is Dead In The Water And Why USJF Will Succeed...

   You probably already know that Pennsylvania attorney Philip J. Berg filed a suit in U.S. District Court several months back contending that Senator Obama is not a "natural-born" citizen.

   And you probably already know that the court dismissed the suit claiming that Berg, as a private citizen, "lacked standing to bring the case."

   Of course, Berg is not the only one who has filed an action and the "Berg Case" is not the only one in which the courts have relied upon the lack-of-standing technicality.

   Georgia Superior Court Judge Jerry W. Baxter denied an action saying to the plaintiff Rev. Tom Terry, "I don't think you have standing to bring this suit."

   Washington State Superior Court Judge John Erlick dismissed yet another suit ruling that even the Secretary of State did not have authority to inquire about Senator Obama's birth certificate.

   Can you believe it?  What's going on? Well, perhaps Berg said it best;

"This is a question of who has standing to uphold our Constitution. If I don't have standing, if you don't have standing, if your neighbor doesn't have standing to question the eligibility of an individual to be president of the United States - the commander in chief, the most powerful person in the world - then who does?"


  Of course, Berg's statement also illustrates why the "Berg Case" and some of these other actions are doomed to fail and why we believe our action WILL succeed!

   Simply stated, the lack-of-standing argument is already out there. Yes, it's egregious but the all too sad reality is that judges will continue to grab onto it like a life-preserver now that it has been put into play... the die has been cast!

   That's why USJF is taking a different approach. Our petitioners are Dr. Alan Keyes, Dr. Wiley S. Drake, Sr. and Markham Robinson!

   We state in the Petition we just filed with the court:

"The parties in this case have standing to bring this litigation, due to the fact that Dr. Keyes and Dr. Drake, Sr., are candidates on the California ballot for President and Vice President of the United States, and Mr. Robinson is an Elector for the Keyes-Drake ticket, and Vice Chairman of America's Independent Party, of Fenton, Michigan, which nominated Dr. Keyes for President. He is also a Chairman of the American Independent Party (California), which nominated Dr. Keyes and Dr. Drake for President and Vice President, respectively. Based on the foregoing, it is imperative for SOS to be provided proof that Senator Obama is a 'natural born' citizen."

  Alan Keyes and Wiley Drake were actually on the ballot in California and Markham Robinson is an Elector for Keyes-Drake. If they don't have standing, one would be hard-pressed to find ANYONE who has standing and if the court attempts to use the lack-of-standing argument, it's an implied admission that NO ONE has standing to enforce the Constitution!


The United States Justice Foundation (USJF) is a nonprofit public interest, legal action organization and has been your conservative voice in the courts since 1979. And since USJF is a 501(c)3 nonprofit, your generous assistance is also TAX DEDUCTIBLE!

You can use this link or the hyperlink below to help - it's TAX DEDUCTIBLE. Is it worth a TAX DEDUCTIBLE effort of $5000 or $2500 or even $100 or $50 or $25 to defend the Constitution and the integrity of our electoral process?

The Obama campaign has a crack team of high-priced law firms - that's not three lawyers but THREE LAW FIRMS - that will use every means that money can buy to fight this action. We're relying on you and patriotic Americans like you.

https://secure.conservativedonations.com/usjf_house/?a=1926

Please use the hyperlink above to make your best TAX-DEDUCTIBLE effort to be a part of this battle. 



The Usurper-in-Chief...

   Now... a dose of reality. Frankly, a case of this magnitude could be in the courts for years. There are no quick solutions... BUT THAT'S OKAY.

   The key is in the following statement which also appears in the Petition:

"Should Senator Obama be discovered, after he takes office, to be ineligible for the Office of President of the United States of America and, thereby, his election declared void, Petitioners, as well as other Americans, will suffer irreparable harm in that an usurper will be sitting as the President of the United States, and none of the treaties, laws, or executive orders signed by him will be valid or legal."

   Part of that statement bears repeating:

"... none of the treaties, laws, or executive orders signed by him will be valid or legal."

   In other words, as long as this case is in the courts, a cloud hangs over Senator Obama's head and for the sake of our Constitution and our Republic, the issue MUST be resolved!

    If President Obama issues an Executive Order to rescind the Mexico City Policy and allows the tax dollars of Americans to fund organizations that promote abortions overseas, the door to question the legitimacy of that Executive Order remains open.

    If President Obama signs a treaty with an unfriendly power or an agreement with the United Nations, the door to question the legitimacy of that treaty remains open.

    If President Obama signs a bill granting amnesty to illegal aliens into law, the door to question the legitimacy of that law remains open.

    If President Obama appoints new Commissioners to the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) who bring back the so-called Fairness Doctrine, the door to question those appointments and the legitimacy of the actions taken by his appointees remains open.

    That's not to say that he can't or won't be able to fulfill the duties of his office, but until this matter is resolved... until he can validate that he is constitutionally eligible to be President of the United States, the door will always remain open to question and challenge the legitimacy of his actions and the dire consequences of those actions.

   In short... as long as we have the resources to fight, we're ahead of the game!

   That's where you come in.


The United States Justice Foundation (USJF) is a nonprofit public interest, legal action organization and has been your conservative voice in the courts since 1979. And since USJF is a 501(c)3 nonprofit, your generous assistance is also TAX DEDUCTIBLE!

You can use this link or the hyperlink below to help - it's TAX DEDUCTIBLE. Is it worth a TAX DEDUCTIBLE effort of $5000 or $2500 or even $100 or $50 or $25 to defend the Constitution and the integrity of our electoral process?

The Obama campaign has a crack team of high-priced law firms - that's not three lawyers but THREE LAW FIRMS - that will use every means that money can buy to fight this action. We're relying on you and patriotic Americans like you.

https://secure.conservativedonations.com/usjf_house/?a=1926

Please use the hyperlink above to make your best TAX-DEDUCTIBLE effort to be a part of this battle. 



I'm Not Living In The Real World...

   To be brutally blunt, a case of this magnitude may not be won or lost on the merits.

   I'm very proud of USJF's accomplishments over the past 29 years.

    We've defended Minuteman Civil Defense Corps members protecting our borders from illegal aliens.

    We handled litigation against Hillary Clinton for campaign finance fraud in her 2000 Senate race.

    We've submitted testimony before the United States Senate on Supreme Court appointees.

   But all that won't really matter. It won't matter which side has the most skilled attorneys. Talent, competence and experience do not assure victory.

   Here's the bottom line.

   Team Obama presently has THREE LAW FIRMS at its disposal - and a seemingly unlimited ability to raise funds from the far-left for more legal help.

  This potentially translates to hundreds of attorneys and law clerks who can literally throw paperwork at us until we crack under the sheer pressure and cry uncle.

   Team Obama WILL try to wear us down (which by the way is yet another reason why the "Berg Case" and many of the others - as mentioned earlier - are doomed to fail and why we CAN get the job done).

   They'll stall and delay and throw paperwork at us so fast, so furiously and for so long... then they'll wait for us to break under the strain and give up. Or so they think...

   Team Obama doesn't fear our skill or the merits of our case.

   The ONLY THING THEY FEAR IS YOU!

   They hope and pray that you will not support our efforts or that you will grow tired of the fight. What they fear most is that you will join us and support our efforts!

   They know that if you support us, we'll have the ability to take on additional clerical and research staff, cover court fees, file briefs and take on outside counsel on an as-needed basis.

   That's why they're praying you don't help us... but we're praying that you do!

   USJF wasn't approached by a group of hot-shot movers and shakers. We took on this burden because like you we love this great country and we REFUSE to stand idly by while the Left disrespects the Constitution, the American people and our electoral process.

  USJF is a nonprofit public interest, legal action organization. We go where others fear to tread. We're adept at taking on vastly superior forces. And we're committed to hitting the trenches on this one and willing to get bloody if we must.

   That's our promise to you.

   But, in the end, our commitment and our "pit-bull" determination doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

   Winning or losing is NOT in our control... and it's not in Team Obama's control... IT'S IN YOUR HANDS!

   A lot of folks are very angry over Barack Obama's refusal to validate his eligibility to be President of the United States.

   Is it worth a TAX DEDUCTIBLE effort of $5000 or $2500 or even $100 or $50 or $25 to defend the Constitution, the rights of Patriotic Americans under the Constitution and the integrity of our electoral process?

   Is it worth forwarding this e-mail to your family and friends with a personal note asking them to join the fight?

   The choice is now up to you.

   Please help us and after helping us, please forward this e-mail to everyone in your address book.

   We're in... how about you?


The United States Justice Foundation (USJF) is a nonprofit public interest, legal action organization and has been your conservative voice in the courts since 1979. And since USJF is a 501(c)3 nonprofit, your generous assistance is also TAX DEDUCTIBLE!

You can use this link or the hyperlink below to help - it's TAX DEDUCTIBLE. Is it worth a TAX DEDUCTIBLE effort of $5000 or $2500 or even $100 or $50 or $25 to defend the Constitution and the integrity of our electoral process?

The Obama campaign has a crack team of high-priced law firms - that's not three lawyers but THREE LAW FIRMS - that will use every means that money can buy to fight this action. We're relying on you and patriotic Americans like you.

https://secure.conservativedonations.com/usjf_house/?a=1926

Please use the hyperlink above to make your best TAX-DEDUCTIBLE effort to be a part of this battle. 





In His Service



Gary Kreep, Executive Director
United States Justice Foundation 


 
 
 

 
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline nomosendero

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Re: Any news with the Dec 1st deadline for Obama/SCOTUS?
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2008, 01:43:55 PM »
As much as I would like to see the truth come out (no matter what the truth is), NOTHING will come of this.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline Troyboy

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Re: Any news with the Dec 1st deadline for Obama/SCOTUS?
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2008, 01:57:42 PM »
+1 and thats a fact
.204 .22lr .22wm .25acp .223 5.56 .243 .25-06 6.5x55  .308  .300wbymag  7.5x54  7.62x25 7.62x39  338-06  9x19 .38spl  9x18 .45acp . 45-70 .500s&w 12rfl 12smb 20smb  .45lc 410smb .22hornet .280AI    Ask not what your country can do for you BUT what can YOU do for your country

Offline lrs

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Re: Any news with the Dec 1st deadline for Obama/SCOTUS?
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2008, 02:13:46 PM »
Maybe you are right.  Maybe it's just meant to be. 
Maybe it's the way things have to be for a while.  So many Americans have allowed themselves to be brainwashed into living in a liberal utopia dreamworld, it's gonna take some horrific, shocking turns of events to snap them out of it, if that is even possible.
Of this, bo can deliver.
By then, it may be too late.
I tend to think we are about to enter a period of time, I will call the dark ages.  I predict about 20 years of this.
" we are screwed "

Offline torpedoman

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Re: Any news with the Dec 1st deadline for Obama/SCOTUS?
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2008, 02:52:42 PM »
It is all a moot question the media and congress have already blessed him as the king and if he gace them a bubble gum card as proof they would take it.
the nation that forgets it defenders will itself be forgotten

Offline Brett

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Re: Any news with the Dec 1st deadline for Obama/SCOTUS?
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2008, 03:59:13 PM »
Maybe you are right.  Maybe it's just meant to be. 
Maybe it's the way things have to be for a while.  So many Americans have allowed themselves to be brainwashed into living in a liberal utopia dreamworld, it's gonna take some horrific, shocking turns of events to snap them out of it, if that is even possible.
Of this, bo can deliver.
By then, it may be too late.
I tend to think we are about to enter a period of time, I will call the dark ages.  I predict about 20 years of this.

Maybe the 7 years that the Bible refers to as the Tribulation?  :o
Life memberships:  <><, NRA, BASS, NAFC

Offline bilmac

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Re: Any news with the Dec 1st deadline for Obama/SCOTUS?
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2008, 05:33:17 PM »
Lets hope the pre-tribbers are right.

Offline DalesCarpentry

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Re: Any news with the Dec 1st deadline for Obama/SCOTUS?
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2008, 09:28:34 AM »
The quality of a mans life is in direct proportion to his commitment to excellence.

A bad day at the range is better than a good day at work!!

Offline Brett

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Re: Any news with the Dec 1st deadline for Obama/SCOTUS?
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2008, 11:22:29 AM »
Supreme Court Not Considering Obama's Birth Certificate Case. This stinks!!!!!!!!! Dale

http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/12/05/supreme-court-not-considering-obamas-birth-certificate-case/?icid=200100397x1214131007x1200961214

Not really surprised are you?  Have you seen the latest figures on the amount of money he raised during his campaign.  That SOB could buy any thing or any one he wants.
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Offline Heather

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Re: Any news with the Dec 1st deadline for Obama/SCOTUS?
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2008, 11:36:39 AM »
How can anyone be surprised by this ???  It's just another example of how corrupt our country has become!

Heather
Strive for complete serenity in all aspects of life.
www.mymartialartsplus.com

A closed mind is often closed to the truth!

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and loose both...Ben Franklin

Offline alsaqr

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Re: Any news with the Dec 1st deadline for Obama/SCOTUS?
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2008, 01:00:23 PM »
I am not a fan of Obama:  Fact is that i do not like him at all.  Folks, the lie was put to the Obama is not a US citizen thing months ago.  Anyone born in the USA is an American citizen:  Period.  Obama will be sworn in on Jan. 20th as scheduled. 


This one has a photo of his birth certificate: 

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html


Snopes has investigated and says Obama was born in the USA. 

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp

From the 14th Amendment to The Constitution of The United States:

Quote
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Offline torpedoman

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Re: Any news with the Dec 1st deadline for Obama/SCOTUS?
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2008, 01:19:17 PM »
it finally made the t.v. news.
the nation that forgets it defenders will itself be forgotten

Offline Heather

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Re: Any news with the Dec 1st deadline for Obama/SCOTUS?
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2008, 01:34:18 PM »
it finally made the t.v. news.

LOL!  :D A bunch of us figured it would AFTER the election.

Heather
Strive for complete serenity in all aspects of life.
www.mymartialartsplus.com

A closed mind is often closed to the truth!

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and loose both...Ben Franklin

Offline lrs

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Re: Any news with the Dec 1st deadline for Obama/SCOTUS?
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2008, 01:44:56 PM »
SCOTUS has not granted certiorari, but at the same time, they have not denied it either from what I can find. (docket # 08a407)

Incidentally, factchecks is a left wing organization.  Believe whatever you like, but they are hardly a non-biased group of folks.  I would give them a D- in credibility.
" we are screwed "

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Any news with the Dec 1st deadline for Obama/SCOTUS?
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2008, 07:42:01 AM »
For fun check out the business records of George Washington's estate , he noted that he bought liquor to get other land owners  drunk so they would vote as he wanted them to . Our govt. didn't " just get" this way, always been this way . His worry was if it was enough.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !