What motor for windmill

[burntmuch]

 Im looking to build a small windmill ,This will be my winter project, Ive been looking around the internet, Lots of options Looks like you can use a older GM alternater & replace the inards ,so it charges at lower RPMs. Thats about a $150 option. I dont want to spend alot of $$ on my first attempt. Cause Im not sure if Ive got enough wind where Im at Average wind 10mph. Ive already got a inverter so the motor will be my biggest cost. Ive check out Youtube lots of info, Look for a guy by Autolayne, Hes built a couple that seems to be pretty cheap & work.  MATT what motor option was you taking about?  OH yeah Thanks for the new forum, I think this is gonna be good.  Jay   

[PartsMan]

Permanent magnet DC. One that runs low rpm on higer voltages.

[torpedoman]

go the gm alternator route the r.p.m. can be controled by the size of the pullys used. large drive pully and a small alternator pully less blade rpm required to give higher alternator rpm.

[Matt]

The best motor that I have found is a treadmill motor. These can be picked up from thrift stores for very little money and have quite a few useful parts in them along with the motor.

I have about 8 or 10 and each of them are 96v DC permanent magnet motors and can be spun by hand to produce 14+ volts and 10+ amps. I have seen the alternators used but you do have to rework them to make them self igniting and to run at low RPM. The treadmill motor is great at low rpm and will light a 12v automotive headlight when spun only by hand.

They seem to hold up quite well to all weather conditions as I have two that have been mounted on a table on my front porch for about 9 months now and exposed to the weather and still produce exactly as they did when I mounted them. They also have a 25lb flywheel that will aid them in production of electricity and prevent loads from slowing them as much.

If you look in swap books or news papers you can find people willing to give them away for free just to get them out of the way. Working or not chances are the motor will be fine as the controllers are what go out 99% of the time. They also have a gear reduction motor that is 110AC that have 750lb thrust that is used to raise and lower the newer treadmills that can be used for other things along with the metal tubing and other parts. All and all you can get them for about 20 to 50 bucks if not free.

If you can not find one let me know and as long as you pay the shipping I can get you one...

[burntmuch]

So its a motor run by 110 volts, so if you spin the motor it produces volts back thru the power cord?? The power cord then connected to load

[Matt]

So its a motor run by 110 volts, so if you spin the motor it produces volts back thru the power cord?? The power cord then connected to load

No it is a Permanet Magnet DC Motor, the controller for the tread mill has a full wave rectifier that converts the AC to DC to run the motor. Remove the motor from the treadmill you will see 3 wires, Green with yellow stripe and Red (+) Black (-). The green wire is an earth ground and will not be used and the others will be positive and negative depending on how you spin the motor.

I will take some pics and post them to illustrate what I am talking about and put a video up to show it all in action just give me a day or two.

Matt

[burntmuch]

OK I get it. Remember your talking to a dumb fireman. Im gonna have to start looking for some junk tread mills.  Thanks 

[Matt]

What you want to remember is that ALL permanent magnet motors will produce electricity when spun and the amount depends on several factors such as stator windings magnet strength and such.

I am working on a new little device that is built around a cordless drill head and motor that will power LEDs for days when combined with some capacitors. These are the type of little MacGyver tricks that will come in handy.

Matt

[bilmac]

Cordless drills have pernament magnet motors? You are going to be a wealth of information my man.

[Matt]

Yes, as with most all DC powered device motors. With a few ac motor starter capacitors and about 15 minutes of cranking the drill motor you can store enough energy to power a dozen or more LEDs for about 24 hours. The total time will depend on the value and number of capacitors you use and the speed at which you crank the drill as well of course with the number of LEDs used and wattage used.

As for being a wealth of information, I don't know but I will help in any way I can. I have been playing with electronics longer than I have been playing with computers and that is about 23 years. Currently I handle electronics repair for a local surplus store along with pawnshops and such. I have access to all kinds of parts and pieces and have lots of junk devices that I morph into creations of all sorts. So if any of you need a part and cant find it let me know I might have a few laying around. 

Matt

[moxgrove]

That's awesome, Matt. This is definitely going to be a great forum! I didn't realize so many others were interested in this stuff.

[Matt]

That's awesome, Matt. This is definitely going to be a great forum! I didn't realize so many others were interested in this stuff.

Yeah I have noticed a huge shift over the last few years and now more and more people are starting to play with power generation and alternative sources. Me I like to try and make broke things work again even if not for the original purpose plus I love to create seemingly meaningless contraptions or at least to most that's how it appears but really more often than not my purpose is for proof of concept.

Matt

[bilmac]

So when you use a cordless drill as a generator to power LEDs, you are storing the juice in starter capacitors instead of batteries? Seems I remember these things as having a whole wad of wires How do you find the right pair?

Here's a question that has been making me crazy since I saw them, the LEDs in kids shoes. My theory is a magnet on a spring that lets it bounce around, surrounded by a coil, or the other was around.

[PartsMan]

Treadmill motors work very good.
You guys should check out http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower_wind_alternators.html.
The rest of the site is interesting also. There current projects are too big for me but the older experments are very interesting.

[Matt]

So when you use a cordless drill as a generator to power LEDs, you are storing the juice in starter capacitors instead of batteries? Seems I remember these things as having a whole wad of wires How do you find the right pair?

Here's a question that has been making me crazy since I saw them, the LEDs in kids shoes. My theory is a magnet on a spring that lets it bounce around, surrounded by a coil, or the other was around.

If you remove the chuck and motor as one piece there are usually only 2 wires and most often they are red and black.

The starter caps will store several hundred volts of juice so the LEDs will need a resistor attached to them so as to prevent over powering them and a 100 ohm one will most often do the trick.  If you have a LED Driver board then it will handle the voltage regulation for you to prevent overload.

As to the shoes the only ones I have taken a part had a micro controller connected to a watch battery and a monetary micro switch.

Matt

[Matt]

Treadmill motors work very good.
You guys should check out http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower_wind_alternators.html.
The rest of the site is interesting also. There current projects are too big for me but the older experments are very interesting.

Yeah they do have some neat projects, they used to have a complete guide to making your blades and hub but not sure if it is still on the site or not.

[torpedoman]

g.m. one wire alternators are self exciting as is. The only difference between a D.C. motor and D.C. generator is how they are wired into the circuit.---Put in electricy and take out motion and it is a motor.---put in motion and take put electricy it is a generator

[Matt]

g.m. one wire alternators are self exciting as is. The only difference between a D.C. motor and D.C. generator is how they are wired into the circuit.---Put in electricy and take out motion and it is a motor.---put in motion and take put electricy it is a generator

 That is the ones with extrenal regulators right?... been a long time since I was into the starter and alternator biz and just cant remember.

Matt

[torpedoman]

g.m. one wire alternators are self exciting as is. The only difference between a D.C. motor and D.C. generator is how they are wired into the circuit.---Put in electricy and take out motion and it is a motor.---put in motion and take put electricy it is a generator

 That is the ones with extrenal regulators right?... been a long time since I was into the starter and alternator biz and just cant remember.

Matt

no the regulator is built in and you can tell them because the battery lead is the only wire hooked to the alternator

[GregP42]

Hey guys,

Here is a link to one that a friend of mine has, he used these plans and dead volvo parts to build a windmill.
http://www.otherpower.com/bartmil.html

Greg

[Matt]

Here are some pics of a treadmill motor. This is one of the motors that I have left exposed to the weather for about 9 months and as you can see only a little surface rust on the flywheel and fading of the wire colors are about all that has happen to them.

Also here are a few pics of a cordless drill motor and chuck.

Matt

[Badnews Bob]

Are the treadmill motors common to makes? I mean will most any brand do it?

We don't have good wind here in Ky but a small gen not used much may still keep a battery or to topped off, I am building a small 8X8 shack to hide out in when Iam being unsociableand would like a small system for a couple lights and a radio one or two nights a month, do you think one this size would work? I know I can buy a single or dual panel system but looks like I can build one of these for a 1/4 the price of a panel.

[Matt]

Are the treadmill motors common to makes? I mean will most any brand do it?

We don't have good wind here in Ky but a small gen not used much may still keep a battery or to topped off, I am building a small 8X8 shack to hide out in when Iam being unsociableand would like a small system for a couple lights and a radio one or two nights a month, do you think one this size would work? I know I can buy a single or dual panel system but looks like I can build one of these for a 1/4 the price of a panel.

 I have taken apart upwards of 50 treadmills and so far all that I have seen use a 60v to 120v DC PM Motors. If you will use LEDs for your lighting 3-5watt and then use a deepcycle battery as a power source the draw would be minimal and the low RPM wind generator should be able to keep the battery topped off. You can also use more than one wind generator to make up for low wind. Your total cost should still be less than a panel and charge controller.

Matt

[billy_56081]

How about using a squirrel cage fan as the impeller? That would simplify the mounting of the generator by not needing to have your blades face into the wind all the time, and not need a brush system to keep the power flowing through the circuit.

[Matt]

Something else that I forgot to mention is that if you have any old UPS's or Battery Backups for computers and such DO NOT THROW THEM OUT... these little guys have a DC to AC inverter in them and most are are 750 watt and up. With very little work these can be made to work as room inverters to power lights, clocks and even TVs or radios on a per room basis. By this I mean have one or two in each room and only use them when you are in that room and the rest of the time they are sitting there cold drawing no power from your battery bank.

The conversion is very simple and only requires that you make a jumper to bypass the load relay and an additional heatsink or fan added to keep them cool under continued use. I have about 40 or 50 of these that I have collected over the last year or two and I think I have less than $5 in each of them.

Matt

[Matt]

How about using a squirrel cage fan as the impeller? That would simplify the mounting of the generator by not needing to have your blades face into the wind all the time, and not need a brush system to keep the power flowing through the circuit.

 You beat me to it Billy... That is the method I am working on as it does not need a directional tail on it to keep it in the wind and they seem to work great in the tests that I have done.

Matt

[billy_56081]

I think the biggest advantage of the squirrel cage type impeller will be not having to use brushes and a track to keep with the rotating impeller and tail fin. If a person could produce enough amprage battery's in conjunction with a 120 vac inverter would be great.

[Matt]

I think the biggest advantage of the squirrel cage type impeller will be not having to use brushes and a track to keep with the rotating impeller and tail fin. If a person could produce enough amprage battery's in conjunction with a 120 vac inverter would be great.

 I dont get what you mean by brushes and a track?

Most use a tail rudder for direction but you are correct that if a squirrel cage fan impeller is used on the treadmill motor it is very easy to mount on the house or where ever you want it and will not need a rudder for direction.

Matt

[billy_56081]

What I mean by brushes and a track is under the impeller you would have to have a conductive track on one side and brushes on the other so the whole assembly could rotate freely with the changing direction of the wind. Just think of what I'm talking about as you have brushes in the motor that transfer the power from the input lines to the rotating armature.

[Matt]

What I mean by brushes and a track is under the impeller you would have to have a conductive track on one side and brushes on the other so the whole assembly could rotate freely with the changing direction of the wind. Just think of what I'm talking about as you have brushes in the motor that transfer the power from the input lines to the rotating armature.

 Gotcha...