Should they throw the book at Plaxico Burress? The NFL player that shot himself.

[45-70.gov]

I guess I see New York's law as unconstitutional or at least wrong and would vote not guilty if on the jury.

+1  I see it exactly the same way.

.
Ditto me on that. Jury nullification is an avenue of changing things; except juries are real funny things these days.

..TM7

 if  your  registered  as  a libertarian  you won't  get  called for jury  duty  i  was  told
i  was at  a party meeting  and  no one  ther had ever  been  called
they  used  to get  jurrors  off  the voting  rolls

within  a  month  tho  i  got  called  in  my  county  [myth  busted]

the libertarian  party  used  to push  jury nulification  but  not  heard  of it  lately

[eod20]

billy   i hope heart and soul that does not come to pass    as it did down under     but if that were the law    i would hold out as long as possible file every lawsuit i could and in the end     yes i would turn them in and cry as i did it      as for being on the jury   that is a non issue for me   i can not serve  i wear blue   but in fairy land  if i did get called   i would uphold the law    we are a land of laws   they must be enforced

[Troyboy]

We are a country of laws and laws must be observed. He was being a gangster like most of his kind. When your in a city that does not allow you to carry, then you can't carry. Simple but he felt like he was above the law. What an idiot he deserves what he gets hopefully more than less

[billy_56081]

I guess I see New York's law as unconstitutional or at least wrong and would vote not guilty if on the jury.

+1  I see it exactly the same way.

.
Ditto me on that. Jury nullification is an avenue of changing things; except juries are real funny things these days.

..TM7

WOW! No wonder it is so cold here.

[LaOtto222]

I am a firm believer in the Constitution and laws. Some times the law makers get it mixed up and their intent is good, but violate the Constitution, then we have a bad law. Once something becomes law, we have no avenue but to follow the law. As Jurors you would be in judgment of someone that is brought up on charges of breaking the law, based on evidence presented. You would not (or should not) have the liberty of deciding if it is a good law or a bad one. If it is a bad law (like NYC's gun laws), then the law needs to be changed. I do not look for New York City law on handguns (and guns in general) to be changed very soon, if ever. In fact Mayor Bloomberg wants his laws to reach out into other communities, making it a crime to sell a gun to a New York City resident or to anyone that might bring a gun into the city of New York. He and other just do not get it. It is criminals that want guns for the wrong reasons and they are going to get them one way or another, law or no law. The law only discourages the honest citizens from having guns. You may have a right to carry permit, but if it was not issued by the City of New York, then it is not valid in their City. So the bottom line is if Plaxico is guilty of breaking the law, he will have to serve the time. I think the law is absurd, but it is the law.

[magooch]

I guess it all depends on which law one judges to be superior.  I choose the Constitution; specifically, the Second Amendment.  Is New York City in the United States of America?  I think it is and therefore the United States Constitution should take precedent over laws and rules contrived by liberal pukes that are scared of their own shadows.

Oh yeah, I'm well aware that the Supreme Court has ruled that some restrictions on the Second Amendment are appropriate.  I disagree.  That is nothing more than a license to abolish the amendment altogether and therefore contravenes the spirit, meaning and letter of the law--the supreme law--the Constitution.

[Fazak]

Some times the law makers get it mixed up and their intent is good, but violate the Constitution, then we have a bad law. Once something becomes law, we have no avenue but to follow the law. As Jurors you would be in judgment of someone that is brought up on charges of breaking the law, based on evidence presented. You would not (or should not) have the liberty of deciding if it is a good law or a bad one.

The American justice system is set up so that a person is judged by a jury of his peers. They alone should decide guilt or innocence.

In virtually every trial a defense attorney will present mitigating circumstances.

The fact that a law is unconstitutional is a very good mitigating circumstance.

[bubba]

just a slight thing here. Ny law does not say you can not carry a handgun in new york city.  I have a concealed carry permit in ny and if I wanted to carry in the city, I need permission from the police commissioner. Granted it is very unlikely you will get the permission, but you can apply for it. So it does not say you cant have a handgun in nyc. Personally I would nbever go to nyc again anyway and if I did, I would not ask permission I would just carry.  As far as Burris goes, throw the book at him and opreoscute him same as anyone else

[LaOtto222]

TM7 - I am not a lawyer. I just wanted to make that clear. I am just a citizen of the United States that believes in the Constitution and the laws that regulate our land.

Just so we are both talking the same language - Jury nullification is an act of a jury (its verdict) intended to make an official rule, especially a statute, void in the context of a particular case. In other words, "the process whereby a jury in a criminal case effectively nullifies a law by acquitting a defendant regardless of the weight of evidence against him or her. It does not state if a law is bad or not in general; just that "in context of a particular case".

I am not sure if this particular case could be nullified. I think it would depend how the Prosecutor presents the case. In general I think you could get a jury nullification if the prosecutor brought the wrong charges up against the defendant. I suppose that it is possible if all jurors agree that the law does not apply that charges were brought against the defendant. I do not believe that would happen in New York City - there are just too many liberals there. Even if there were some conservatives - I am sure the Prosecutor would make sure that he did not seat anyone that would disagree with the law.

If it is a hung jury, it should be because of a difference of opinion where the defendant was guilty or not of the charges he was brought up on - not if the law was bad.

In any case I do not agree with the New York City gun laws, but that Mr Burress is more than likely guilty of breaking the law in New York City so he must serve the time, if found guilty. We would have chaos with out following laws - even stupid ones. We have to get those stupid laws over turned.

[billy_56081]

billy   i hope heart and soul that does not come to pass    as it did down under     but if that were the law    i would hold out as long as possible file every lawsuit i could and in the end     yes i would turn them in and cry as i did it      as for being on the jury   that is a non issue for me   i can not serve  i wear blue   but in fairy land  if i did get called   i would uphold the law    we are a land of laws   they must be enforced

That is sad to hear, and it is aslo the reason our constitution will fail. "People" are the law and are the definers and writers of the constitution. When people support an illegal law, they are in fact supporting the downfall of our Constitution. I am guessing by your screenname the you have spent time in the military, I consisder someone that supports or enforces an illegal law in the same way I consider a military person who follows an illegal order. If you were ordered by your chain of command to shoot children or other unarmed civilians would you? By your way of thinking following orders is the law of the land.Just a little food for thought.

[LaOtto222]

Where is At Law? I would like to get his opinion of the New York City Law as it applies to Plaxico Burress.

[45-70.gov]

billy   i hope heart and soul that does not come to pass    as it did down under     but if that were the law    i would hold out as long as possible file every lawsuit i could and in the end     yes i would turn them in and cry as i did it      as for being on the jury   that is a non issue for me   i can not serve  i wear blue   but in fairy land  if i did get called   i would uphold the law    we are a land of laws   they must be enforced

were  we a nation  of  laws  when  we burned  witches??  i  am not  sure

but  we  were a nation of  laws during slavery and blacks had a 3/5 vote  and wemen none

if  a person  ''DID  THE DEED''  and  the jury  just  said  not  guilty

what  are  the consequences??

how  many  of you avoided jury  duty??
jury  duty  i  the one  time  the government  actually  gives  you more  power  than  you will  ever  have in  your  life for  most
you  have  an oppertunity  to stand  up  and say  ''today  you cannot violate  that  mans rights''

[Fazak]

I would not ask permission I would just carry.  As far as Burris goes, throw the book at him and opreoscute him same as anyone else

So let me get this straight.

You acknowledge that you would ignore the no carry law if you were in NYC,..yet you want to "throw the book" at somebody else who did so?

There's a word for that. It's called hypocrisy.

[DalesCarpentry]

I would not ask permission I would just carry.  As far as Burris goes, throw the book at him and opreoscute him same as anyone else

So let me get this straight.

You acknowledge that you would ignore the no carry law if you were in NYC,..yet you want to "throw the book" at somebody else who did so?

There's a word for that. It's called hypocrisy.

You know I was thinking the same thing when I read that statement. Dale

[Fazak]

,..and as for all of this, "You have to obey the law because it's the law.",..well,.. screw that.

When I feel that I need to carry a gun to protect myself and my family, I'll be carrying a gun,..and any law that says I can't be damned.

I won't allow myself or my family to be victimized by some goblin just to keep some anti gun knothead happy.

[billy_56081]

,..and as for all of this, "You have to obey the law because it's the law.",..well,.. screw that.

When I feel that I need to carry a gun to protect myself and my family, I'll be carrying a gun,..and any law that says I can't be damned.

I won't allow myself or my family to be victimized by some goblin just to keep some anti gun knothead happy.

How does the saying go? It's better to be judged by twelve, than carried by six!

Jury nullification/pardons are nothing new, in fact they were very common in the old west.

[eod20]

yes they were a common thing in the past   and in my opinion they caused  and do cause more problems then they solve     if i may cite 2 examples   - OJ Simpson    clearly guilty   but the jury let him off on racial grounds      and clan actions in the south in the 50's & 60's   hang or beat a black man and then en panel a jury of 12 white racist to let the guilty go with a wink and a smile      both caused more problems than they they solved and just extended and escalated a bad situation more

[billy_56081]

EOD how about my question further up the line? Would you obey an unlawful order?

[eod20]

when in the service or now as a police officer if ordered to fire my weapon on unarmed peaceful civilians    NO   i would refuse that order  and that issue is addressed in very great detail in any command course you will ever go to     it has been addressed as far back as nurenburg    if a person is given an order he/she knows to be illegal it is your duty to refuse that oder    and there is a specific manner to do it     request the order be clarified   request the order in writting   and if it is still given    REFUSE the order      and that is apples and oranges to what we are talking about here       the ONLY efective manner to change a law is from within the system    forceful resistance causes more absurd laws to be passed to fix the first one     when it would cause less harm and be faster to just change the first one from within      now if you want to change your sitution and ask if i would shoot thru innocents to stop "bad gys" that were hiding behind them    yes i would   

[45-70.gov]

yes they were a common thing in the past   and in my opinion they caused  and do cause more problems then they solve     if i may cite 2 examples   - OJ Simpson    clearly guilty   but the jury let him off on racial grounds      and clan actions in the south in the 50's & 60's   hang or beat a black man and then en panel a jury of 12 white racist to let the guilty go with a wink and a smile      both caused more problems than they they solved and just extended and escalated a bad situation more

these  are fine  examples  of how jury nulification  did  a bad thing
but  is  a jurror ever  held  accountable for  this??

i was  once  falsely  arrested  and  when  i  demanded  a jury  trial  the case  was dropped
until  you are  falsely  arrested  you  will  never  know  what it is  like to  go  for  years  waiting to  go  to trial
i  can  only  imagine  to  be falsly  conficted
or  conficted   for  exercizing  my  constitutional  rights

i  do  see  as  this thread  goes  on
fewer  want  him  under the  bus
has  his blood alchol level been tested  or  made public  [or drug test]??

maybe  if  the cops  wouldn't play catch  and  release  with  real bad people
there  wouldn't  be so many bad people  running around

the  jails  are full
so  if  this guy  is  jailed
who  do  we  release  to make room  for  him??.....the   dopers  have  mandatory sentence  ....so  the  house breakers??

[eod20]

45-70    i agree with you train of thought     but it is not the cops that release the crooks      it is the DA and the judge     

[45-70.gov]

i  know    and  i  am  getting  off  topic,,,what  is  a  20 shorty

[bubba]

and if I got caught I would expect the same treatment to have the book thrown at me too. However it would not be talked about on a forum because I am not a big football star. I would just make the paper maybe. 

[eod20]

a 20 in reference to my handle eod20?     years ago when i first got a computer   i tried to get just eod as a handle and the computer said it was already in use  then it suggested eod20    i have had it every since     well that and shortround     i assume you know what a shortround is  .....

[45-70.gov]

no   20 ga  shorty?,,,,,,class 3?  just  noticed  your signature

but  they have  a section to discuss  nfa
my  e-mail name is  a spin  off  of  my old  CB handle

i  noticed  the news  people  weren't so hard  on  him  as i thought
saying  he  was  licenced in  florida  but  NY  will  not  honer   the licence [ like  33  other states]

 monday i  send  an   e-mail  to  fox news  told  then  that  all  week end
they   sounded  like the other  liberal media  the way  they  discussed  this case  and  the toy-r-us shooting

[eod20]

ahh   no that one is not class 3   it is only 18.6 in    it is my truck gun with screw in chokes and a good selection of ammo     the class 3 is my m590 with the 14 in barrel i use at work   

   and by the way   i do support the unrestricted national carry of firearms  with few exceptions ie convicted felons and the unhinged

   

[45-70.gov]

this is one good reason for people [especially women]
to be armed at all  times

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,157809.0.html#lastPost





i  have  been pulled  over  and noticed  the cop clance  at  the revolver printing in  my pocket
but  have  yet been ask to produce a permit.....things are more  casual  here  i guess

i have a 9 inch  o/u 12GA
was  told by  a cop in uniform  watching me  shoot  it
not to get caught with  it......i   informed him  i wouldn't  be  in public if it wasn't legal

maybe  this plaxico guy  will  bring national attention to the  enequality  of  the laws  in this country
not  to  excuse  his wrecklessness  but  he  may  have  thought 
it  was  like a drivers or marrage   licence   that  was  good  in  all states

people should  just not go out  in liberal states......spend you money  here,   then go  home

[DalesCarpentry]

not  to  excuse  his wrecklessness  but  he  may  have  thought 
it  was  like a drivers or marrage   licence   that  was  good  in  all states


Even I don't believe he is that stupid and I do think he is pretty stupid. Dale