What common cartridge for whitetail or smaller?

[notnodak]

I'd like to start using a T/C for hunting deer and coyotes. What common cartridge would be good for whitetail or smaller animals? Around here I have acess to normal rifle rounds like 25-06, 308, 243, 223, 22-250, 30-30, 270, and other common ones.

[Grumulkin]

I've had T/C barrels for all of the cartridges you mention.  The ones I've taken deer with are the 25/06, the 308, the 22-250 and the 270 which will all work for smaller stuff as well.  The others you mention will also all work for deer and smaller animals.

If I really had to choose just one for the uses you mention, it would probably be the 25/06.  It's proverbial for being accurate.  Excellent bullets are available for it and it will send a bullet a LONG way at a fairly flat trajectory.

[Steve P]

.30-30 gets my vote.

Steve

[SD Handgunner]

I'd like to start using a T/C for hunting deer and coyotes. What common cartridge would be good for whitetail or smaller animals? Around here I have acess to normal rifle rounds like 25-06, 308, 243, 223, 22-250, 30-30, 270, and other common ones.

Of the cartridges you listed, my personal choice for a T/C Encore Handgun would be the .243 Wichester. A few years ago a buddy won a Stainless-Steel Encore Handgun and decided to get it in .243. I tested a few different factory loads and handloads in that 15" .243 Encore and ultimately decided upon a Handload using 80gr. Speer Hot Core Spitzers loaded with H-4895 at a muzzle velocity of 2920 FPS.

This load was intended to be used on everything from Coyotes to Whitetails. I used his .243 Encore to take two Whitetails on a single afternoon a few years back. Both shots were a bit over 200 yards. THe one Doe dropped in her tracks but the other one required a second shot as I messed up and hit too far back on the first shot. Bullet performance was great.

I had also tested 55gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips loaded with Varget to 3240 FPS, as well as some 95gr. & 100gr. Bullets but the 80gr. Speer / H-4895 combo produced the best accuracy in that particular barrel.

Larry

[notnodak]

I'd be using factory ammo, no reloads. Would that change anyones ideas? I was looking at the 308 or 243 but my concern is these factory loads are made for 26" barrels and if I am using a 10-12 inch barrel which will be better?

[bilmac]

Depends There's little tiny whitetails and then there's big ol monster whitetails. Some whitetails live in the thick stuff, others you shoot across wide open hay fields. Of the calibers you list, I wouldn't shoot any 22. The 30-30 is more for a guy who likes to do things the hard way. All the rest would do you fine.

[338JDJ]

If your staying with factory loads dont rule out the 7x30 waters! I've killed several deer with it. Its a good shooting round with mild recoil. Many times I shot 2 to 3 inch groups with it at two hundred yds. Killed my first handgun deer when I was 19 with it and that little 5 pt was 249 yards away. Personally I have 3 contender frames and 1 encore and I have no use for the encore (Let the flames begin). the trigger is crap compared to my contenders and I have even had mine done by SSK. My contender triggers are great. No creep, just crisp and light as a feather. If hunting in thick areas the 45-70 in a 12" hunter is a great choice. I have no need for all the rifle chambers you can get in an encore. The 309JDJ and 338JDJ will kill anything in the USA.

338JDJ

[RaySendero]

I'd be using factory ammo, no reloads. Would that change anyones ideas? I was looking at the 308 or 243 but my concern is these factory loads are made for 26" barrels and if I am using a 10-12 inch barrel which will be better?

For a 10/12" barrel TC handgun - I'd say go with the 30-30.

[Lone Star]

...I was looking at the 308 or 243 but my concern is these factory loads are made for 26" barrels and if I am using a 10-12 inch barrel which will be better?

Rifle cartridges will work pretty well in shorter barrels.  You will lose velocity of course, but in 12"-14" barrels the cartridges which produce the highest velocities in a rifle barrel will be the fastest in the shorter ones.  Any of the high-powered cartridges listed will give loud, bright muzzle reports, but even the .30-30 barks pretty well out of a 10-inch tube. 

I'd decide on the performance you are looking for and choose the cartridge that delivers.  Just be sure to consider recoil and blast in your decision.  The 7-30 Waters is quite popular, factory loads work well in short barrels and the blast and recoil are less that the .308, .25-06, etc.  The .308 has a lot to recommend it with the new "managed-recoil" loads offered by Remington.  The 125-grain bullet will work well on deer on down and will reduce recoil too.  And if you want more range or to hunt larger game, just buy full-power factory loads....


.

[chiefs50]

For factory loads out of a 10-12" barrel, I would choose a Contender in .30-30.

[Redhawk1]

243, what a great round, and with the right bullet, even big deer will fall to it.

[Hopalong7]

Yep, I vote .243 out of your choices....and would soon look to add it's big brother, the .308.
We are talking Encore Pistol right?  14"-15" barrel on any of the choices.
GOOD sHOOTIN', Walt

[jmlv]

If your talking a Contender the only loads would be the 30-30 or the 7mm-30 in a 10"-14" barrel(I have a 14" 30-30 and love it great shooter and the recoil is easily manageable) The other calibers you mentioned(except the 223 which I would not in good consience use for whitetail or mule deer) are only avaiable in an Encore frame and frankly if you go for an Encore you may as well carry a rifle. Even then a 30-30 Contender Carbine would weigh less and work just as well at a distance suited to the cartridge (about 200-250 yards.

[markc]

If you are talking contender, then 30-30 is not the only round.  The 35 Rem is my choice, especially with the pointed hornady 200gr round.  Although you didn't have it listed, it is certainly worth a look, and recoil isn't bad, especially with some decelerators on it..

[David D.]

I'd like to start using a T/C for hunting deer and coyotes. What common cartridge would be good for whitetail or smaller animals? Around here I have acess to normal rifle rounds like 25-06, 308, 243, 223, 22-250, 30-30, 270, and other common ones.

Rifle or pistol, you didnt say? Distance you will be shooting? Any of the above will work under the right conditions. The 30-30 not really a long range cartridge, the 22's on the small side for deer, but with well placed shots will work. If shooting these from pistols the 25-06, 308, 270, heavy on the recoil for some, but manageble. Some find them unpleasent to shoot some dont.

Rifle or pistol my choice from the above would be the 25-06 or 308, both capable of very good accuracy. But if I were using a pistol and was recoil sensitive I would opt for the 243.

[smong2000]

How about splitting the difference -> 7mm-08?  It's very popular these days so you shouldn't have trouble finding ammo. Recoil is not bad and you cover both ends pretty nicely.  When I was shopping, the guys here steered me that way and I'm happy with accuracy and shootability.

[notnodak]

If I get one It'll probibly be a 308 because of availibility and a friend has a reloader for it. One last question for now, Is there a place that makes rifle caliber ammo for pistol length barrels?

[SHOOTALL]

7-08 !

[sonofafish]

45/70

[Hopalong7]

notnodak,  A lot of us, myself included, have tried over the years in our reloading to "customize" rifle caliber ammo to our pistol length barrels.  There are some small exceptions, but in general most of us find that what works best in our rifle works best in our pistol, in terms of accuracy and velocity.  GOOD SHOOTIN', Walt

[SD Handgunner]

notnodak,  A lot of us, myself included, have tried over the years in our reloading to "customize" rifle caliber ammo to our pistol length barrels.  There are some small exceptions, but in general most of us find that what works best in our rifle works best in our pistol, in terms of accuracy and velocity.  GOOD SHOOTIN', Walt

That would be the truth of the matter. For me personally I have always had the best results with the .243 in Rifles using powders in the 4895 - 4064 burn rates with the lighter bullets (80 - 85 grains or less) and 4350 with bullets heavier than 80 - 85 grains. My experience with the .243 in Handguns has verified that these same powders are the powders of choice regardless of barrel length.

I remember many years ago an article by the late Bob Milek in which he was testing a then new 18 1/2" barreled Remington Model 7. Milek tried several different powders and bullets and ended up concluding that the same combinations of bullet weight and powder that worked so well in the longer barreled (22" to 26") .243's also produced the best accuracy and velocity in the 18 1/2" barreled .243.

Larry

[Hopalong7]

It was the writings of Mr. Milek that got me hooked in this ........ah.........sport. 

[BBF]

If you don't have velocity in those small calibers you haven't got squat!! So you need more the a foot worth of barrel.
Leaving out those that will kick you into the next county or have piss bow like  trajectories I would be looking into 30 to 35 cal cases.

[Shortgun]

Mr BBF

Sir it is obvious you have spent little time with shortbarrels.

shortgun

[BBF]

You are correct in some way. There is a reason why your loading books tell you the length of the barrel when publishing their books.
 Are you telling me that a 10" barrel will push out the same bullet/load as fast as a 22 or 26" barrel??

[SD Handgunner]

You are correct in some way. There is a reason why your loading books tell you the length of the barrel when publishing their books.
 Are you telling me that a 10" barrel will push out the same bullet/load as fast as a 22 or 26" barrel??

Nope I don't think anyone is trying to tell you that.

However the powders used that produce the best combination of Velocity and Accuracy in those long rifle barrels will still produce the best combination of Velocity and Accuracy in 14-15" Handgun Barrels, just at a lesser velocity level.

In regards to cartridges such as the .223 Remington velocity loss from a 22" Rifle to a 14" Handgun will be roughly 200 - 400 FPS depending on the individual barrels used, bullet weight etc. I have also seen where going from a 14" Contender Barrel down to a 10" Contender Barrel will result in as much velocity loss as going from a 22" Rifle Barrel down to a 14" Handgun Barrel, again per the chronographing I have done.

In the .243's I have tested velocity loss from a 22" Barreled Rifle to a 15" Barreled Handgun have been in the neighborbood of 350 FPS with heavier bullets to up to 500 FPS with 55gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips from the chronographing I have done.

Granted these were all different barrels and I did not start with a Rifle barrel and cut it down, so differences in chamber and bore dimensions can have an effect on the outcome.

Larry

[onesonek]

notnodak,,, well, at one point you said 10-12" barrel. My choice as a few ohter would be the .30-30  or .35 Rem..
Then you decided the .308, that is a fine choice also, just not best in 10-12" barrel. You'll be better off with the Encore in 15" in that case. If using factory ammo, any of the 150gr. loads should work just fine.

Dave

[BBF]

shortgun:
didn't I imply in my post what you just confirmed?
I should have added that in larger calibers heavier bullets, the loss of velocity isn't as dramatic as those in light high velocity bullets considering that the velocity is the biggest component in the energy equation.

[jhalcott]

  As a rule, velocity isn't what does all the work. You NEED accuracy ,no matter what caliber is used. I have killed deer with the .17 Remington with FACTORY ammo. Ditto with a 45-70(both handgun and rifle). I've used cast linotype also, along with softer alloys to take deer and similar game. Every body has an OPINION on what will or wont kill a deer,mine is simply ,A bullet in the vitals will do it every time!

[SD Handgunner]

  As a rule, velocity isn't what does all the work. You NEED accuracy ,no matter what caliber is used. I have killed deer with the .17 Remington with FACTORY ammo. Ditto with a 45-70(both handgun and rifle). I've used cast linotype also, along with softer alloys to take deer and similar game. Every body has an OPINION on what will or wont kill a deer,mine is simply ,A bullet in the vitals will do it every time!

Exactly

I have never seen Foot Pounds of Energy kill a deer. In fact 90% of the time only a small portion of that energy is transferred to the animal, with the rest being deposited on the landscape after the bullet passed through the animal.

The very first Whitetail Deer I took at long range with a Handgun was with a Custom Remington XP-100 chambered for the 6mm-223 Cartridge. I was shooting an 80gr. Speer Hot Core Spitzer to a muzzle velocity of 2648 FPS. The bullet hit with an impact velocity of 1932 FPS and an impact Energy of 633 FtLbs. It was a one shot kill that didn't even require a coup-de-grac. The bullet hit high on the near side shoulder, took out the lungs and exited high through the off side shoulder leaving a 1 1/2" exit hole. Works for me.

Larry