Today's kids are crazy

[GGaskill]

Went to the range today for our monthly club reduced range high power rifle match and a Scout leader had brought 6 or 8 Boy Scouts with him to introduce them to clay pigeon shooting next to us on the range after we had finished our match.  I had taken my 30mm muzzle loading cannon along for some tests and they all wanted to watch, etc.  I let a couple of them light the fuse to fire a couple of shots.  One had a camera along with him and posted the following on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmU4vGwQCzA

We may make an attachment to this troop to do some youth training.

[dynomike]

What kind of rifle are you shooting?

[Victor3]

 What could be cooler for a Scout to do?

 My Son is a Cub Scout. I've had to confirm to his fellow Scouts on occasion that yes, he does have two airguns of his own, shoots 22 rifles & pistols, and has lit the fuse on CANNONS 

 I've tried to figure out a way to get his Pack out to shoot cannon/mortar, but it seems there's no easy way (paperwork, training, liability, etc.). Kids want to do it, but I may have to take them out apart from a BSA organized event.

 GG, the video says it's at "Angeles Crest Shooting Range." Is it at Angeles Ranges in Lake View Terrace, CA?

[Cannoneer]

Re: Today's kids are crazy

GG, I don't know if this is true, but if the music (more precisely lyrics) they have a penchant for choosing to accompany their cannon vids on YouTube is any indication of their lack of sanity then I'd have to say that it would be hard for me to believe that they aren't a little nutty. Hopefully this nihilistic tripe that they love to listen to, basically goes in one ear and out the other without having any considerable impact on their psyches.
I recently watched an interesting documentary made by a twentysomething black man about this so-called "gangsta rap" music and lyrics, and he made the observation that it was incredible, but nonetheless true that young black girls and women evidence a type of strange mental disconnect that allows them to listen to these vile, violent, abusive and incredibly derogatory lyrics, and somehow convince themselves that it is directed towards others, and not specifically aimed at themselves. Sometimes it seems to me we would actually be more accurate if we got into the habit of using the term anti-culture to describe some of this phenomena rather than the word, culture. Anyway, that's enough of this rant, sorry, sometimes this garbage really gets to me; I think the plan to do some cannon and/or firearm training with the scouts is an excellant idea. I went through both the Cub and Boy Scouts of America programs and it would have been great to have had some artillery training; although as older teens we did have some outings that involved .22 cal. rifle training.

Is your 30mm made from a military rifled cannon barrel or is it a cannon you made from scratch? Either way, it has an interesting profile.

[GGaskill]

What kind of rifle are you shooting?

Assuming you are asking about my personal high power match rifle, I am shooting a customized CAR-A3, the Colt AR-based match rifle.  See the Colt's Mfg web page for details.  The base rifle looks like this:



Mine has some differing details and is due for a new barrel.  Most of the other shooters use some variation of the AR but we also get M1A's, M1's and, rarely, a bolt rifle.  See the club website for more details about our matches.

Is it at Angeles Ranges in Lake View Terrace, CA?

Yes, that is where the event took place.  We were at the right end of the pistol/black powder range next to the automatic traps.

but if the music (more precisely lyrics) they have a penchant for choosing to accompany their cannon vids on YouTube is any indication of their lack of sanity then I'd have to say that it would be hard for me to believe that they aren't a little nutty.

An interesting observation; I heard the music when I watched their video but didn't listen to the lyrics.  But I have to say that many of the popular songs of my younger days (I just turned 62) had pretty awful lyrics if you could figure out what they were saying (or tried to.) 

I talked with the Scout leader for several minutes as they were leaving and said that I would prefer to keep the safety training and shooting training as separate activities since the safety training could be done in their usual meeting area without the need to come to the range with all its distractions, and it could be done before they got range time.  We'll see what happens.

Is your 30mm made from a military rifled cannon barrel or is it a cannon you made from scratch? Either way, it has an interesting profile.

The barrel is made from a piece of a demilled 30 mm cannon barrel (we're not sure from what ordnance) that I found in a scrap yard that specialized in alloy steels.  I threaded the breech end and a piece of 3" 1018 was threaded to match and had a 1" dia x 1.75" deep chamber drilled in it.  It is nominally a muzzle loader but the breech can still be unscrewed and it can be loaded from the rear end too.  It is designed to resemble a Parrott rifle but I did it before I had anything other than pictures so it is not really of correct proportions.  And the bicycle wheels are of such light weight that a service load causes a lot of rearward motion from the recoil (and the range is sloped to the rear there, too.)

[Victor3]

Is it at Angeles Ranges in Lake View Terrace, CA?

Yes, that is where the event took place.  We were at the right end of the pistol/black powder range next to the automatic traps.

 Cool. Do you know if they let anyone shoot cannons or is that just for members? I didn't see anything in their regs concerning cannon. I've shot rifle there a few times since SGVGC shut down. Haven't shot over to the right of the office yet though...

[dynomike]

I guess i quit when they phased the M-14's out. But i still have mine and both of my 45's.

[GGaskill]

Do you know if they let anyone shoot cannons or is that just for members?

I am not a member there but I have never been greeted with anything other than a sheet-eating grin when I brought a cannon to the line there.  I shot to the right because that was where we had our short range match set up.  I have fired the artillery on the left hand range too.

I guess i quit when they phased the M-14's out.

M14's (M1A's) are always welcome to shoot in our matches.  They are certainly overkill for 100 yards but there are no restrictions on them.

[no guns here]

I'd like to follow up on the Scout's-guns-cannons issue.

First - I'm the shooting sports trainer for the Transatlantic Council of the BSA here in Europe.

Keep in mind that this all pertains to an "official" scout event.   Of course you are able to do what you wish with your kids.

Cub Scouts may only fire bb guns.  No shotguns, no pistols, no rifles.  NOT allowed at the den or pack level.  Only allowed at District or higher level events.

Boy Scouts may only fire single shot .22 rifles.  Shotguns of 12 gauge and smaller for trap, skeet etc.  No handguns.  We get around this by handing them one .22 round at a time.  Hunting is not allowed as a scout program.  Allowed at Troop level and higher.

Venture Crew (coed Boy Scout program ages 14-20) - no limits.  May shoot pistol, rifle, shotgun etc.  Heck we've had our Venture Crew out on the range with the SF unit shooting some cool stuff.  Hunting IS allowed as a scout program.  Allowed at Crew level and higher.

The "Guide to Safe Scouting" specifically prohibits firing cannons.


Don't bust me on this.  I don't necessarily agree with all of this but I'm just telling you the limits.

Girl Scouts are not necessarily limited as to firearms however many of the local units have a strict "no guns" policy.  Allowed at Troop level if approved by local council.  Luckily, we do not have that problem here.  We take our Girl Scouts to the range and they fire handguns, shotguns, and high powered rifles.  Hunting is to my knowledge, not specifically addressed at the national policy level by GS.  Of course it is highly discouraged by the liberals in charge of the GS.

Archery is approved across the board for Cub Scouts, Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts.


I hope I haven't put out any false information.  I'm pretty sure of all my information but...  different councils may have differeny policies in some small ways.


ngh

[Victor3]

 Thanks no guns here; that confirms what I had assumed. It's a little frustrating that we now have to fill out a pile of forms just to take the kids on a hike in the local mountains.

 To give some historical perspective, my Wife's Grandmother was the Skipper of a group of Mariners (Girl "Sea Scouts") in the 60's. She took them (no men allowed) from Marina Del Rey CA to a secluded beach camp in Mexico on a tall sailing ship a few times. They had a signal cannon, and no paperwork was required to fire it...

 Would you let your Daughter go on a similar trip today?

 WWTD (What Would Tropico Do)  

[thelionspaw]

Kids crazy?

A week ago, I read in the news where an outfit in Massachuttes (?) hosts an open to the public weapons firing day, i.e. rifles, shotguns, pistols and automatic weapons for all ages.  A proud dad was taping his 8 year old son shooting an Uzzi. The victim lost control of the weapon in his little hands and sadly, shot himself in the head. Dead!

Everyone but the father is being sued.

I am of the impression that the AAA (?) and maybe the NSSA (?) will not allow anyone under 18 to touch-off a cannon.

We are hyper about barrel liners and specs as directed by these organizations for our cannon and mortar use but............................?

I belong to a group and we carry NRA insurance; which is quite specific. A father is still angry with me because I wouldn't allow his 10 year old to touch off my cannon for his birthday at one of our events.

Hey dad!  I'm not ready to move out of my home and into a tent for you when you get your son killed under my supervision. He doesn't understand that.

So put coal in my stocking!!!

As a by-the-by: Travel in Mexico today and I understand that you will need a cannon.

rc

[Cat Whisperer]

ngh-

Thanks for posting - it's seems like a well thought-through program of graduated instruction and responsibility.

[Victor3]

 A proud dad was taping his 8 year old son shooting an Uzzi. The victim lost control of the weapon in his little hands and sadly, shot himself in the head. Dead!

 I was sad when I heard about that one. Horrible.

 Having trained a little with the Uzi, I can't imagine why anyone would let an 8 year-old fire one. In one burst, I could barely keep 20 rounds within 10" at 10 yards, and I'm 6', 220#.

 I can see where you're coming from, but I think that firing a safely constructed/loaded cannon under adult supervision is different than handing a child a submachine gun.

 If one is worried about the safety of children near a cannon, they shouldn't let them be within a mile of setting one off; Remember that incident in Washington state recently? IIRC, a kid was hit by shrapnel at over 100 yards away from where the cannon exploded.

 My Son built and launched an Estes rocket (engine packed with black powder in a thin cardboard tube) at a BSA sponsored camp when he was 6. None of the 60+ rockets we shot off that day blew up or punctured anyone...

[thelionspaw]

Your position is reasonable enough but I am referring to the "One-size-fits-all" standards of the NRA, AAA and NSSA. They are understable because of "Murphy's Law". We are all painted with the same broad brush but we still have to do what WE feel is best with our artillery. The rules are suited for one man, one cannon and one thousand acres. 

rc