Author Topic: USH misfires (Read 3259 times)

jjas · « **on:** December 09, 2008, 07:05:47 PM »

I frequent this (and a few other) forums and have noticed that recently (in the last month) that one particular forum has many posts about USH misfires occuring @ an astonishing rate.

Over the years, I've read nothing but positive comments about the USH and wondered if anyone on this site has been experiencing misfires. I myself don't own an USH, but I do own a .44 mag Handi-rifle and it's been trouble free to this point after shooting 300 or more rounds through it.

It just seems odd, that an otherwise reliable platform is suddenly having misfire problems and I haven't been reading about these problems here as this site is known as "the" H&R site.

Just wondering,

Jim

Lon371 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 10, 2008, 01:03:54 AM »

I have an USH 20 acc barrel, it was fitted to my SB1 reciever. I have been shooting it for 2 years. I have not had the first misfire. Not sure that I have read of anyone having this problem as of yet.

Even if it did, for the accuracy I would over look it.

Lonny

shootokill · « **Reply #2 on:** December 10, 2008, 02:08:38 AM »

My USH at this point has about 90% misfires. Every brand of ammo that fired well last year does not work now, the pin barely makes a dent in the primer. The idea about making a full trigger pull to allow the transfer bar to make full contact isn't the problem because the hammer trips before the trigger is actually pulled all the way back. Besides, I shot hundreds of rounds last year w/o a problem.

I purchased the gun last year so its still under warranty. I believe this is a minor issue that H&R needs to address but these problems are pretty much wide spread, my case happens to be severe.

tominohio · « **Reply #3 on:** December 10, 2008, 02:59:38 AM »

My 20 gauge USH has never had a missfire, but I did have some ejection problems. Thanks to this forum, I have resolved that problem

The only issue I ever had with it was ammunition related.
On a 8 deg. F Ohio morning, the powder in my Lightfield slugs didn't burn completely. Consequently the deer I shot at ( 75 yards off of a bench, in my elevated shooting house ) wasn't even spooked at the 4 shots I took at it. After I was home, and the gun warmed up, the barrel was full of unburnt powder. If your using Lightfield slugs, be aware of potential failure in cold temps.

shootokill · « **Reply #4 on:** December 10, 2008, 05:05:13 AM »

I wish the cold was the cause but it happens with SST's, core-lokts, expanders as well as lightfields. Never heard about the cold issue with lightfields, if true, many others would complain because they are probably one of the most popular sabot shot out of all guns today

mspaci · « **Reply #5 on:** December 10, 2008, 05:16:20 AM »

lightfields may not be the problem, I hunt in very cold weather with them & have never had a problem. Might just be a bad batch? Never heard of this one before? Mike

shootokill · « **Reply #6 on:** December 10, 2008, 05:31:06 AM »

Bad batch of lightfields, SST's, corelokts and expanders? Don't think so. H&R has fixed a number of these guns already, here's one of many such reports:

http://www.newjerseyhunter.com/article52983.htm

NFG · « **Reply #7 on:** December 10, 2008, 07:08:45 AM »

If it shot well last year and doesn't make much of a primer indent this year...it isn't inherent in the USH...you have something slowing down or stopping the hammer from hitting the firing pin or the firing pin is being stopped, the transfer bar being interfered with...the trigger is being stopped from coming back completely...etc....you probably have some crap somewhere inside the firing mechanism that needs to be cleaned out...solidified oil or grease, dirt, grass, BUGS...this sounds like YOUR problem not the guns fault, but you never know....guns are mechanical devices and do break down. NEF does have it's inherent problems that are fairly quick to fix...it is built on the cheap so isn't perfect.

...shooting "hundreds" of rounds last year and getting 90% misfires this year should be a clue it isn't the guns fault per se. Your description of how the hammer falls when the trigger is only slightly back is telling me there is something stopping the complete cycle from happening and the primer is not being hit hard enough....something is interfering with the cycle and I would guess it is just garbage in the works or a broken part.

Take out the trigger group, take out the hammer and clean it well and look for junk that would have caused the problem....take it to a gunsmith or send it back to NEF for them to clean if you're uncomfortable with stripping it down...Maybe just attack it with a high pressure air supply and blow the HE** out of it....it doesn't take much of a bit of garbage in the right place to muck up the works. You never know...it might be a small piece of brass jammed in the firing pin hole along side of the firing pin stopping up the works....or maybe one of the springs broke and is causing the problem...the only way to know for sure is to strip it down, clean it good and look over the pieces and parts.

Enjoy your toys.

shootokill · « **Reply #8 on:** December 10, 2008, 07:50:39 AM »

The obvious gunk issue was put to sleep when the trigger, pin and hammer were disassembled and cleaned. Spoke to HR today and they said that the springs are what they have been replacing, so it appears the gun is at fault.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** December 10, 2008, 08:02:17 AM »

Weak hammer springs are a known issue with H&Rs, but usually after they've been used for a while, it's listed as one of the parts to keep in your spare parts kit as shown in the FAQs.

OEM Hammer springs can be ordered from Brownell's, the lifter and striker(transfer bar) is another part to keep on hand along with a firing pin and spring, when any of these parts break, it can ruin your day. Wolff also offers replacement springs. $:-\$ Perklo's trigger hone info in the FAQs can be used to help R&R the parts.

Tim

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/schematics/schemmfg.aspx?step=2&mfgid=6&mfgname=H&R%C2%AE

http://www.gunsprings.com/RifleShotgun/HR_RsNF.html

wild willy · « **Reply #10 on:** December 10, 2008, 11:15:14 AM »

shootokill your problems with your USH are exacly the same as mine worked fine last two years started out wouldn't fire remington thought its was ammo problem now misfires with everything

lefteye · « **Reply #11 on:** December 10, 2008, 01:30:42 PM »

My 20 gauge wouldn't fire Hornady SSTs. Buckhammers were fine. It's going back to the manufacturer.

jcchartboy · « **Reply #12 on:** December 10, 2008, 02:29:42 PM »

Hey Guys,

First off I wanted to thank JJAS for starting this thread on my behalf. My interest in this topic started several weeks ago when I heard of an isolated incident where a shooter was blaming the new Remington Accutips, and specifically their "failure to fire" from a USH, for costing him what he referred to as a "B&C" deer.

After reading the facts of his circumstances and the conclusions he reached I was not satisfied with the logic of his approach or the manner in which he reached his conclusions, (as far as anyone knows he never had the gun or ammo inspected by the manufacturer before reaching his conclusions despite the requests of several interested parties to do so.)

Intrigued by this subject I put my ear to the ground to determine if, as I was beginning to suspect, his ordeal was not an isolated incident...

Needless to say, in the past three weeks alone I uncovered three different reports of hunters with USH "failure to fires" causing them to miss bucks that they had pulled the trigger on, (not to mention dozen of reports of repeated "failure to fires" during range testing).

Most importantly, it is clear that this is occurring in USH's regardless of age, regardless of level of use, and regardless of which brand and make of ammo is being fired.

For all of those that have already contributed their experiences with USH "failure to fires" to this page, I thank you for add to everyone's knowledge. To anyone else that has had similar experiences please add as much information concerning the condition of the gun and ammo with your description of the problems that arose. By gathering all of this information from numerous USH users in a few central locations it will be much easier for those that experience the problem to attempt to resolve them in the future.

Thanks again,
JC

BTW....Here is just a sample of the type of reports I have been accumulating:

Quote

Brand New Thumbhole Ultra Slug Hunter (bought 2 weeks ago)
Horndady SST 4 boxes (20 shells) (bought 2 weeks ago)

I had 2 misfires through the 20 shells. I looked at the primer and it was imprinted by the hammer.

All I can think about in the treestand, monday and tuesday was is this shell in my gun going to fire? .

JC

jjas · « **Reply #13 on:** December 10, 2008, 03:10:20 PM »

While I find the opinions interesting and insightful, what I really wish we could have is some hard data from H&R themselves on this issue.

Are there recurring failure to fire issues with the USH platform? If so, what percentage of units sold are having these problems and what is H&R doing to rectify this problem (if there is one).

Perhaps Tim could call his contact @ H&R/Remington and put this one to bed for all of us.

Jim

quickdtoo · « **Reply #14 on:** December 10, 2008, 03:43:33 PM »

Regardless of what he would learn, each malfunctioning firearm still needs to be taken care of by CS, contact them at their toll free number (866)776-9292 and make arrangements to have them repaired, also ask that they cover shipping either by issuing a call tag or reimbursement.

Tim

jcchartboy · « **Reply #15 on:** December 10, 2008, 03:44:49 PM »

JJAS,

Thanks again for helping to call Tim's attention to this issue....

On behalf of the USH owners that are also members of other forums, including SGW and NJH, I can say also that we would all be very grateful for anything Tim can do to bring this problem to the attention of H&R's design team and management.

Of course, in addition to the information already presented here, if any further information on this problem would be useful please feel free to contact me via PM for the locations of others threads discussing this topic elsewhere.

JC

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** December 10, 2008, 04:09:57 PM »

As has been said, it's likely just a bad batch of hammer springs, but CS would be the place to deal with it. It's also possible that they've been headspaced on the high side or it's combination of the two issues. In any event, CS needs to deal with each firearm, that's the only recourse for individuals unless they want to return the firearms to their dealers to work it out, dunno how that would work in general.

Tim

shootokill · « **Reply #17 on:** December 10, 2008, 05:04:47 PM »

Thanks Quickdtoo. This may seem like a stupid question but what does "CS" stand for? Is it an abbreviation of the new H&R/Remington new name or something?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** December 10, 2008, 07:32:18 PM »

Customer service or customer support.

Tim

http://www.hr1871.com/support/repairs.asp

Lon371 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 10, 2008, 10:41:44 PM »

I maybe way out of line here, But some of the posters seem to be more interrested in somthing other than getting help with there USH.

Quote

Needless to say, in the past three weeks alone I uncovered three different reports of hunters with USH "failure to fires" causing them to miss bucks that they had pulled the trigger on, (not to mention dozen of reports of repeated "failure to fires" during range testing).

Quote

Of course, in addition to the information already presented here, if any further information on this problem would be useful please feel free to contact me via PM for the locations of others threads discussing this topic elsewhere.

Quote

BTW....Here is just a sample of the type of reports I have been accumulating:

by the way, at the moment I have NEF/H&R- .44-.270-USH 20-12-410. As of this moment no fail to fires.

I just went to the link provided above, about the Hornady SST slug issues. The poster was also complaining about his buddies misfire?

Quote

He heard a pop followed by a wooshing sound, then the round fired.

That sounds to me like a shell issue. Not a gun issue. The firing pin has no effect on how the shell acts once the primer has popped

Lonny

lefteye · « **Reply #20 on:** December 11, 2008, 01:34:19 AM »

I had ammo that wouldn't fire in my gun with but had a dent in the primer. It did fire in another 20 gauge. It is the gun not the ammo.

buckshooter · « **Reply #21 on:** December 11, 2008, 01:53:10 AM »

I just got the USH in the SB2-980. It has not misfired.

Hope this helps

buckshooter

shootokill · « **Reply #22 on:** December 11, 2008, 02:07:58 AM »

There are numerous cases where it can't possibly be the ammo, the obvious one being mine. Not every Firestone tire blew up a few years ago either but the fault was the tire, right??? The H&R is a cheaply built firearm which is obvious from day one but when it works it shoots just as good as a $2000 Tarhunt. The only way to achieve this accuracy is with a ridiculously heavy cannon barrel. If it is the ammo, why are the only complaints from HR slug owners?

BTW Quickdtoo, thanks.

jjas · « **Reply #23 on:** December 11, 2008, 02:34:23 AM »

Tim,

I posted your CS info for Remington/H&R on the SGW website for any USH owners that might be having any problems with their guns.

As you pointed out, the only real solution is to have these customers contact the manufacturer and send their gun(s) in for inspection and repair if necessary.

Thanks again,

Jim

Lon371 · « **Reply #24 on:** December 11, 2008, 04:15:39 AM »

I am not saying all these reports are not gun related. As someone stated above this a cheap brand of gun. If it were not cheap and fixable or tunable I imagine most of would not have bought them to begin with.

As I stated i own a few Handi's and knock on wood have had good luck. Heck mine killed a deer, yeah me

Quote

For all of those that have already contributed their experiences with USH "failure to fires" to this page, I thank you for add to everyone's knowledge. To anyone else that has had similar experiences please add as much information concerning the condition of the gun and ammo with your description of the problems that arose. By gathering all of this information from numerous USH users in a few central locations it will be much easier for those that experience the problem to attempt to resolve them in the future.

Thanks again,
JC

BTW....Here is just a sample of the type of reports I have been accumulating:

After reading your post, it just seems like you are gathering information against the USH for?

Lonny

jcchartboy · « **Reply #25 on:** December 11, 2008, 04:34:33 AM »

Quote from: Lon371 on December 11, 2008, 04:15:39 AM

After reading your post, it just seems like you are gathering information against the USH for?

Lonny

Lonny,

As I openly stated in every post I have written, gathering information on the USH "failure to fires" is exactly what I am doing!

The reason I am doing this is that I am that administrator and a moderator for two other hunting and firearms related forums. On both of those sites other moderators and members regularly refer individuals to me who are asking for advice on slug gun related issues. Additionally, I am also the individual that worked with the owners to start the "slug shooters" forum on SGW. From that forum I also regularly receive emails and PM's from members about problems and concerns with their guns, ammo, shooting techniques etc.

Add to those responsibilites the fact that I am also a dedicated slug shooter myself with numerous freinds that own the USH's and you should be able to see why discussing the facts sorrounding this potential problem are interesting to me, and helpful to those that request assistance from me...

JC

Rangeball · « **Reply #26 on:** December 11, 2008, 05:40:51 AM »

Quote from: Lon371 on December 10, 2008, 10:41:44 PM

I maybe way out of line here, But some of the posters seem to be more interrested in somthing other than getting help with there USH.

Lonny

Lonny, you have it exactly right. I am the "shooter" who reported a "failure to fire" with the accutips, and it indeed did cost me a "what he referred to as a B&C deer". I have 4 witnesses who saw him when we went out for what I hoped would be a recovery. Long story short, I pulled the trigger 3 times on a loaded accutip when he was at 25 yards, shell didn't fire, I reloaded, he moved off and I got a shot through extremely thick grass and did not hit him.

But your point is exactly right. I've have hundreds of shots through my 4 year old USH with many different makes of ammo, and this is the only misfire I've ever had. The 17 accutips I shot sighting in and shooting ahead of season performed flawlessly. The shell I loaded after it went off, as has every shell since. I had a contact with someone from Marlin who now works for Remington, and discussed the issue with him. I've examined the gun, trigger is clean, firing pin is protruding, hits in every other fired shell are pronounced, my only misfire was with this one shell. The contact discussed it with their ammo guys and they decided it was likely simply a dud shell, for which they explained there is an industry allowable tolerance. It happens, and it happened to me at the worst time possible, but I've moved on.

If anyone has an issue with a misfire, by all means contact the manufacturer like I did. Let them determine the appropriate course of action. In my isolated incident with one misfire ever, they determined it was likely the ammo.

Take care.

shootokill · « **Reply #27 on:** December 11, 2008, 05:53:39 AM »

Rangeball, you should read about "Mako1" on the following site to see that HR replaced the spring to solve the problem. This is not an ammo issue as reported by the many owners, how could it possibly be? Your case may very well be related to ammo but many are not. My gun fails to shoot every brand in my box at this point. Faulty springs, tranfer bars, pins who really knows until HR investigates the problem.

http://www.newjerseyhunter.com/article52983.htm

Rangeball · « **Reply #28 on:** December 11, 2008, 06:04:52 AM »

I agree with you 150%.

Unlike others claiming the opposite, I have never once claimed that all USH misfires are ammo related. As I posted above, there are many reasons for misfires.

The maker of both the gun AND the ammo, now the same company, determined in MY specific case it was very likely the ammo. Remember, I've had only 1 misfire, ever, not multiple misfires like others are reporting, especially with the newer guns it seems.

That said, resolution after a misfire definitely involves contacting the manufacturer for determination of cause, and I highly recommend everyone do it.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #29 on:** December 11, 2008, 06:09:22 AM »

Well I will throw this into the mix, I have 2 Tracker I's, 3 Tracker II's, and a 20 gauge USH. All guns made specifically for slug shooting by H&R/NEF. I have never had a FTF in any of them, including the USH....<><....