17 HMR Penetration

[Rustyinfla]

    OK I didn't want to hijack 12pointtine's thread so I figured I better start this one.

  I think we all like accurate rifles, in fact I think it was Col. Charles Askins that said only accurate rifles are interesting. While a .22LR is OK for tree rats and dispatching the odd skunk, possum or coon that gets in the garbage at night the .22 Mag can be pressed for much larger game. Here in Fla during small game season on the Wildlife Management Area run by the state a lot of people use a .22Mag because only rimfires are allowed and if you run into a hog the Mag will get that done. That is my main dilemma between the 17 HMR and the 22Mag. I'm really thinking that a 17 HMR would be a little light for penetrating a hog's noggin.

  Anybody have any thoughts on this problem?

[MSP Ret]

I think a .22 Mag with soild point bullets MAY do the job and I would use it if I had to, although there are better rounds if you could use a centerfire, which you cannot, so the solids may be the reasonable choice. I just picked up 4 or 5 boxes of .17 HMR's with fmj bullets but have not shot them yet. They may be up the job if you are required to use rimfires, however I have not tested them for penetration....<><....

[Keith L]

About the only think I would rather do less that hog hunt with a .22 Mag would be to hog hunt with a ,17 HMR.  It had better be a perfect shot with either and the risk is that the critter dies slowly and painfully elsewhere, or that you really tick it off and it hurts you or someone else nearby.

[Rustyinfla]

 Keith, where I grew up in S. Fla. the guys I ran with all used dogs to hunt hogs. Personally I never could get thrilled at running through the woods, often at night chasing a dog that was chasing a hog. With those guys if you showed up with anything more than  a Single Six with the Magnum cylinder you'd be the laughing stock of the high school for weeks. Those were some wild times.
  My son enjoys it he uses nothing more than a K-Bar and the dogs. Like the old Amish saying "Too soon old to late smart."

  I'm trying to balance the usefulness of the .22 vs the .17 and thinking of the different things I'd be using it for. I know the .22 Mag will put down a hog with a head shot. I'm just less certain about the .17.

  There was a famous gator  poacher in S. Fla who used a .22 mag for everything. His name was Totch Brown. If you ever get a chance to buy his book I promise you you'll read it at least twice. When I say poacher, understand he was a gator hunter who did everything by the law until it was outlawed. When the law changed he didn't so he became a poacher. Totch was raised literally in the Everglades trapping coons for their hides and gator hunting during the depression. They camped out on high places they could find looking for their game. they also did some commercial fishing for mullet when they needed to.

[quickdtoo]

Varmint Al has a bunch of 17hmr penetration tests posted on his site.

Tim

http://www.varmintal.com/17hmr.htm

[MSP Ret]

Interesting article Tim, Thanks. I saw nothing there about the .17 HMR loaded with FMJ bullets. I think they may have been introduced after the article was written. As I understand it the FMJ bullets where introduced because of complaints of excessive damage to small game animals because of the explosive nature of the HP and polymer tipped bullets. I would like to see some info on the penetration and effectiveness of the FMJ .17 HMR round on varmints and game animals....<><....

[Rustyinfla]

  Yeah right, Thanks a lot Tim

   That's just what I need another hobby. Oh no coyote hunting here I come. Jeeze Louise.

  Seriously they are getting pretty think around here. they need some thinning out. That's a good looking page Tim. Thanks a lot. I bet those little .17 are a pain to clean.

[quickdtoo]

Cleaning is easy with the right tools for the job, I use foaming cleaner and a Patchworm instead of a rod, I just don't feel real comfortable using a rod in the tiny bore, just clean it when accuracy goes away, takes a few rounds for accuracy to come back, so I don't clean it if I'm gonna shoot it again within several months like all summer and fall when I keep it in the travel case in the back of my rig.   

Tim

http://patchworm.com/patchworm.html

[MSP Ret]

get those coyotes!!! It's fun and it helps the game animals at the same time. I just use a Bore Snake in my .17's whenever I think thay may need it or if I do not plan on using them for an extended time.  They work great. They work so well in fact that I now have Bore Snakes in several calibers....<><....

[petemi]

I lived in Florida for 14 years and hunted there then and I still do.  I'd NEVER consider hunting hogs with a rimfire.  Sure you'll take the 30 lb babies, but what happens when the kids 350 lb grandpa takes an interest in reaming your butt?  You're not going to stop a good sized boar with a rimfire........safely.  I don't know, and I'm too lazy to go to Florida website to find out, if shotguns are legal, I asume they are and that's what I'd use.

Back in the early sixties I was quail hunting with "Trouble" my lab mix.  We stumbled into eight or a dozen hogs and she took off after them.  They ran about 50 yards and turned, deciding to eat the dog rather than run.  I was a kid with a J.C. Higgins 12 ga. pump loaded with #8.  I charged after her calling her to come back.  I got to about 30 yards when they started to close on her and I emptied the shotgun in hogs faces, butts, anything I could hit.  I have no clue what damage, if any, the little 8s did to the pigs, but I saved my dog.

It was the only time in my life a repeater did me any good, And I still don't know if one shot from a Pardner or Topper would have had the same effect.  At the time, I just wanted them off my dog.

No, If I'm wandering around in palmetto or savanah, I'll have something with me that will do in anything from a rattlesnake to 400 lb pig.  And a 12 ga. is a good choice with a variety of loads.

Years ago, when I actively hunted them, hogs on private land were the landowner's property and could be killed anytime.   Hogs on State land could only be taken during the deer season.  Does this still hold???

Merry Christmas,  Pete

[petemi]

Rusty, I was stationed at Weapons Department, Cecil Field, Florida., which, during WWII had been Naval Ammunition Depot, Yellow Water.  My division officer, Mustang LTJG Wayne Church, former Air Ordnanceman, and a Florida Cracker and I hunted and fished all over North Florida. He once told me if you can catch a young hog in the open, you can run him down, grab a hind leg, flip him over and cut his throat.

I was deer and hog hunting on the base and I was perched on top of an old abandoned WWII concrete bunker facing a curved earth berm bullet backstop and a small rail road track inside following the curve.  They trained Naval machine gunners during the war in this setup.  Shooting at targets moving around the track with .50 cal. machine guns.

Anyhow, I'm sitting up there and I see a pig.  We weren't allowed to use rifles on base because of aircraft.  I raised my shotgun and fired 3 slugs at him and missed.  I can't remember why the gun was plugged for three, but it was.  The pig was running toward an opening in the berm to get out.  He was getting closer to me by the jump.  Wayne's words came back to me, "you can run him down".  I dropped the shotgun, grabbed my knife and raced for the opening to head him off.

I covered about half the distance and now this hog is stomping, snorting and glaring at me.  He's got 3 inch tusks, 3 inch hackles standing straight up and a huge set of male equipment underneath.  The knife in my hand turned into a toy rubber knife instantly.  Now I'm praying "Please Mr. Hog, I'll back up, you just go out the opening".......and he did.  So much for knifing wild hogs.

It turned out I was trying to shoot over 100 yards with rifled slugs.  So much for youth.

Merry Christmas,

Pete

[Jones]

We butchered Sunday got about a 400 lbs'r. Skinned and gave him the works, dumped the leavings and just happened to have the new .17 HMR with me. Shot him in the snout and i don't think it exited from 10'. I'll go down tomorrow and see what a hp dose.
 Don't think it is a good idea tho.


  GJ

[Rustyinfla]

  You're right Pete, WMA's allow rimfire or shotguns in small game season.


  I know it's romantic to tell everyone how the U.S. is a nation of riflemen. Everyone of us is a precession sharp shooter able to shoot an enemy sniper through their own scope at 800 yards.

  This is my opinion and I've never seen anything in print to back it up, but IMHO something closer to the truth would be the gun that won the west was the double barrel 12 ga. The "rifle" that settled the Cumberland mountains was the smoothbore musket often loaded with shot as in SHOTGUN. I saw a copy of an order issued by Gen. George Washington once, that said all muskets where to be loaded with a single ball and as much buck as was safe for their first round in an engagement. I KNOW that most Florida Crackers used shotguns for every day use. Oh the shame of it all, we're now disgraced.
   When in Law Enforcement the shucking sound made by a pump shotgun chambering a round is the universal language. Nothing says I really, really mean it like that clackity clack sound.