How many of you would agree or disagree with this statement?

[Redhawk1]

This is not my statement, but from another handgun hunter.....    We are talking about a deer round here, not small game.

"Yes, the .38 Special still is a viable hunting cartridge, regardless of personal dislikes, preferences, what have you."


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My thoughts on the above statement is:
I think anyone using a 38 special as a deer round is just plain wrong. The 38 special is no way a viable deer hunting round.

[Graybeard]

Yes I either agree or disagree. 

[Mohawk]

  Used at bow range, or less, it does fine. Been there, done that. And yes, it is very legal. One with a 158gr LRN and the other 110gr SJHP. Both ran 40 or so yards and were very good eating. Just make sure deer is broadside to collapse both lungs and you're fine. Many, upon, many disagree but I don't have a problem with it if the hunter knows it's range and physiological limitations. Most "gunwriters" will disagree, but that is just marketing. How can the new .300 Express Super Duper Ballistic King Magnum sell guns, through gunwriters articles (advertisement) if old school rules. It's amazing what calibers some folks think it takes to put a whitetail down. The .32-20 was a deer killer in a rifle before gunwriters said it shouldn't be used, etc. Same goes for the .44-40. Each of us has our opinions of what we believe is "ethical" when it comes to harvesting game. Personally, I feel the .38 Special is fine, with the aboved mentioned considerations.

[Redhawk1]

Yes I either agree or disagree. 

A lot of help that was Garybeard...lol 

[Graybeard]

Oh you mean you wanted to know WHICH? Well why the heck didn't you say so? You just asked how many either agree or disagree. 

I tend to agree in certain circumstances but disagree with its general use for such. The very first and perhaps only deer my best friend Billy Doss (now deceased) killed was taken with a .38 full wadcutter bullet I had cast for him from linotype and loaded over a very heavy dose of Red Dot powder to 1000 fps per his request. It was bang-flop but what would have happened had he not put it in the brain I dunno.

I'd not want to use any jacketed bullet for such work personally and would want a good hard case semiwadcutter with as wide a meplat as possible. the two bullets I'd most trust for such would be the Lyman 358156 and 358429. I'd load them really hot well into the +P+ range and shoot them only from .357 chambered revolvers but given such and a close enough range I could carefully place them properly I'd not be afraid to use it on deer.

I'd prefer not to use any jacketed bullet and would be very careful of my bullet placement even with the cast bullets. I would expect full penetration and a dead deer tho.

I do not generally speaking consider the .38 special to be a deer hunting round however.

[jhalcott]

  I personally think it is WRONG for a person to hunt with a cartridge /gun they can't hit the vitals with! Calibers do NOT kill,accuracy DOES. Greybeard is correct.!

[Mohawk]

  What was the old saying,"Shoot straight with the .38 and don't shoot jive with the .45"....lol. That was from an old NYPD detective after taking out a felon with a snub with lrn bullets. And he won......Anything that punches holes in the lungs on a whitetail will do fine. Only a small fraction of the persons that enact, monitor, and enforce game laws actually hunt. Then how do they know what hunters do???

[Redhawk1]

Graybeard, I won't say it cannot kill a deer, I am just saying it is not a viable cartridge for deer size game.
We all know a 22 L/R place in the right spot, it will kill a deer, but that does not make the 22 L/R the next deer round.

If I only had a 38 special and I needed meat, I would use it on a deer. Yes proper shot placement and range, it will kill a deer.
Is it a good choice for deer hunting..... I say no. JMHO.

[Mohawk]

  Good point, Redhawk. I never said the .38 was a "choice". That's what I had and used    Brought home meat and that was the purpose. Didn't go to the stand to use my model 10, or at least one time I didn't. Good thread, though. It is a topic as old as time. If you "need" deer meat, the .38 works just fine....how's that?   

[S.B.]

It may be viable but, I would have to consider it unethical. If the .38 was used for taking whitetail deer wouldn't that open the flood gate to use any other .355-.357 caliber?
Alex, I'm trying very hard here to avoid the arguments that always follow this type of question and inevitably are answered by those who swear by the smaller deer calibers, as the best thing since buttered bread.
Steve

[onesonek]

Viable,,,,yes, within it's limitations. Ethical,,,,only if used within those limitations of the round and capabilities of the hunter using it. Practicality,,,,, is a whole other matter. Wouldn't be my first choice, but if it's all I had to put meat on the table, I could get by.

Dave

[jwp475]

  A friend of mine has taken more than 15 deer with the 38/357 and never had a problem, so I'd say it'll work. The Lyman Hard Cast 173 grain hard cast in 38 special passes camplet through and exits on Deer

[Badnews Bob]

I think I would do it, but not as first choice, More like a I am hungry last choice deal.

I think GBs statement covers it thou.

I know it will work but its not what i'am doing.

[Lone Star]

...I won't say it cannot kill a deer, I am just saying it is not a viable cartridge for deer size game...

vi-a-ble - adj.  3. Capable of success....

I'd say it is certainly viable, but definately not optimal.



.

[Cheesehead]

I think Mohawk sumed it up when he said "used at bow range".

Cheese

[Glanceblamm]

Yes I either agree or disagree. 

Thanks for making me spit coffee out on the desk & keyboard Sir  

I would prefer to look at this question based on what is legal in my State. The .38 will not produce 500ft lbs of energy at the muzzle so I would not even consider it.
Would it kill a deer though?...Sure Would!...have to make the right shot at the right range and there just isnt a whole lot of resistance in slipping a bullet behind the shoulder & through the lungs.

[SHOOTALL]

lets face it some try to use more powerful guns to offset poor ablity to hit where they aim  , of course none here would but we have all heard of one or two others that did.
Clint Eastwood really summed it up when he said a man has to know his limitations ,

[buck460XVR]

vi-a-ble - adj.  3. Capable of success....

I'd say it is certainly viable, but definately not optimal.



.

yep, what Lone Star said. Altho by definition, it would be legal in Wisconsin, it certainly would not be my first, second, or even my tenth choice.


..from the Wis. DNR site.

What handguns are legal for deer hunting in Wisconsin? Deer may be hunted with handguns loaded with center-fire cartridges of .22 caliber or larger and that have a minimum barrel length of 5 1/2 inches measured from the muzzle to the firing pin with the action closed.

[Camba]

As far as ethics is concerned, ths is a clear case of "right vs. right dilemma"  In one hand, it is right that the 38 special is a viable round to kill deer; but it is also right that there are better tools to do the same job.  My personal decision will be based on the right that will give the most weight; in this case, I vote for the better tool.

Camba

[Redhawk1]

lets face it some try to use more powerful guns to offset poor ablity to hit where they aim  , of course none here would but we have all heard of one or two others that did.
Clint Eastwood really summed it up when he said a man has to know his limitations ,

There is always one guy that brings this up and I say BS to it.
I never bought a bigger gun, or more powerful gun to make up for poor ability. I get bigger guns to make bigger holes to let the blood out, and get good penetration.

[Mohawk]

   Notice, that this year, I used a .357 Magnum, and took two deer with two shots. My two kills with the .38 were incidental to a hunt. One, was I was retrieving a book my girlfriend left on the treestand, and the other was a day I was not hunting, but I can't turn down a source of sausage during season when offered. The LRN load was standard 755 fps, dead broadside, pass through. The deer with the 110 factory Remington SJHP was also dead broadside. Though this one did not exit, but killed the deer. Either time I wasn't actually "hunting" deer. But when you are checking your property during a 2 1/2 month gun season, you tend to be armed at all times in case the meat comes your way. Not many deer, or other animal, can withstand both lungs being deflated, regardless of bleeding. I don't recommend the .38 but if close enough to your target, a slow lead slug that just dredges through ain't a bad thing when you need meat. If you get both lungs then there is no problem. In Texas, it's not a legal issue. Any centerfire cartridge is legal. We are all hunters and have our own experiences. Personally, a .308 level cartridge in a 10-14" barrelled Contender, with a 10x scope, is not a handgun, it is a short barrelled rifle. Many see it different and that is great, and I respect that, because we are hunters. Nobody is right, and nobody is wrong. Just keep getting meat in the oven, and keep the barrells warm.......

[SHOOTALL]

redhawk1
if i touched a nerve sorry !
BS no ,

[Lloyd Smale]

i get a kick out of people who claim a certain round is inhumane to use on an animal but have to qualms about shooting a man with it! Hell yes a 38 special loaded properly (and probaly even loaded inproperly) will kill a deer. Put a hole in the noggin or any vital organ of any animal that cant get to a doctor quick enough and there dead! Would it be my first choise as a deer hunting round? Hell no. But if it meant the differnce in eating or not and its all i had, Id bet a dime to a dollar i wouldnt starve. Is it ethical. Well thats what we have laws for. If its legal to use its ethical enough for me and i wouldnt pass judgement on anyone using it.

[SHOOTALL]

Ethics in hunting laws , guess ethics depend on location more than morals .

[Redhawk1]

redhawk1
if i touched a nerve sorry !
BS no ,

No I am not touchy, it is just this statement you made comes up time after time and I think it is an inaccurate statement, that is my point.

[SHOOTALL]

like all statements it applies to some but not all .

[Redhawk1]

i get a kick out of people who claim a certain round is inhumane to use on an animal but have to qualms about shooting a man with it! Hell yes a 38 special loaded properly (and probaly even loaded inproperly) will kill a deer. Put a hole in the noggin or any vital organ of any animal that cant get to a doctor quick enough and there dead! Would it be my first choise as a deer hunting round? Hell no. But if it meant the differnce in eating or not and its all i had, Id bet a dime to a dollar i wouldnt starve. Is it ethical. Well thats what we have laws for. If its legal to use its ethical enough for me and i wouldnt pass judgement on anyone using it.

Like I said Lloyd, I am more then sure the 38 special would kill a deer. And like you, if that was all I had and I am talking, no other gun available, I would not starve either. But as long as there are grocery stories open I will not starve either. There are so many other better choices out there.

I guess where we disagree is, should it be used for a hunting round. I say no. But that is just my opinion.
 

 

[Lloyd Smale]

everyone has a right to there opinion and to do as they please. My point is nobody has the right to tell someone else what they should do or use. thats what the law is for. If what your doing is legal its non of my bussiness. Redhawk, your not one of them, i respect your opinion but ive just to many times through the years have had some wet behind the ear shooter that knows nothing except ballistic tables and what other people have told him (mostly on the internet) about what is ethical and what is not when it comes to hunting methods and guns used. Ive killed enough game in my life to know what it takes to kill a deer and bottom line it aint much. Its alot more about where you hit them then with what. I dont recomend it but ive seen 22lrs kill a good many deer and drop them about on the spot. Would i say the 22 is a perfect deer round. Not a chance but i know a farmer that gets crop dammage permits every year and probably dumps 20 deer a year with a 22. Claims he hasnt lost one yet.  the question you asked would have been easier to answer if you would have included experience in the equation. An experineced handgunner that can put his shots in the correct place EVERY time and knows when to hold them and knows when to fold them using a 38 special is a much better armed hunter then a guy that picks up a 44 mag or even a 500 smith a box of shells and goes hunting. Believe it or not my buddy who owns a gunshop said that about half the 500s he sold were to first time handgunners. Can you believe that. If they want to pass a law to prevent cruelty to deer they out to ban the sale of hard kicking guns to beginning handgunners.

[Redhawk1]

Lloyd I agree, there are a lot of guys trying to handgun hunt for the first time, and 95% of them never practice enough to be proficient with any round.

Too many first time handgun hunters want a large caliber handgun, thinking it is better than a smaller handgun (round).
These guys may only shot a few shots and hit the target and say they are ready to hunt.

Know I know quit a few true handgun hunters, and I know they shoot a lot and year around. They know there equipment well also.

Myself, I can safely say I shoot well over 5000 rounds form all of my big bore hand guns yearly. I do it because I like to shoot, and like to know what my guns will do, and I know when the time comes, the shot will be second nature for me.

I know I could go to the woods and take a 22 L/R and kill a deer, I also know I can take a 38 special and do the same thing. The problem I have is, the guys that thinks a 38 special is a good hunting round. There is a big limitation the 38 special poses, proper penetration at longer ranges like 35 yards and beyond. If the shoulder or a hard bone is hit, the 38 will not have the velocity to push the bullet to the vitals, where a 41 Mag would not have a problem. There is where my problem lies.

That is why I am agents the 38 special for deer hunting.

[victorcharlie]

No doubt it's a little under powered for such game, but would probably work at close range.